Spun out!!!!!!Learnt a valuble lesson!!!
08-02-2005, 11:55 AM
#76
Originally Posted by DARKMAZ8
But steathfox said he'll just shift better and make up the time. :D
08-02-2005, 12:25 PM
#77
"Call me Darkman"
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Originally Posted by BlueEyes
haha, I have been shifting for 10 years, he has some catching up to do. Only 9 more to go. :p
08-02-2005, 12:31 PM
#78
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Originally Posted by DARKMAZ8
hmm I'm still debating if stealthcox has his licence yet....and I don't mean a need for speed underground one.... :D
B
A
iB
iA
Super :D
oh yeah, i've got a state of georgia license too
08-02-2005, 07:35 PM
#79
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Originally Posted by DARKMAZ8
hmm I'm still debating if stealthcox has his licence yet....and I don't mean a need for speed underground one.... :D
08-06-2005, 04:59 AM
#81
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If you dont have DSC find some snow and an empty parkign lot at 3:00am and slide the night away.
Then after you do that find a bigger parking lot in the rain and slide some more.
After that you should have a good feeling of car control.
I have found when it's dry thing happen faster but the breakaway is less abrupt and therefore more controllable so if you can master the above you should be on auto pilot when the unexpected occures.
I found the trickest thing was learning how to use the throttle to control the slide, the counter steering is intuitive but the throttle control is not always intuitive.
Then after you do that find a bigger parking lot in the rain and slide some more.
After that you should have a good feeling of car control.
I have found when it's dry thing happen faster but the breakaway is less abrupt and therefore more controllable so if you can master the above you should be on auto pilot when the unexpected occures.
I found the trickest thing was learning how to use the throttle to control the slide, the counter steering is intuitive but the throttle control is not always intuitive.
08-07-2005, 02:40 AM
#82
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indeed you are correct millyard but in places like southern california there is no snow and large parking lots are rare. i'd reccomend SCCA 2 solo racing as well and find someone that's a good drifter and has a car they drift with(ie has cheap tires on it) so you can get comfortable with traction breakage, and if you can control a car sliding down the side of a canyon with near no traction than you can handle a little tire screech on a slightly too fast turn. this helps you learn the car's dynamics, and how cars start to act when you take turns too fast and you start breaking traction(also i forgot to mention earlier a RWD car is a must) and how to control cars in a spinout or a rwd drift.
08-07-2005, 11:09 PM
#86
SIX means six speed!
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THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS AFTER U LOSE CONTROL... SPIN... 720 SPIN AND HIT A HIGHWAY BRIDGE CONCRETE COLUMN....
http://photos.yahoo.com/m22intexas
Luckily nothing happened to me.
http://photos.yahoo.com/m22intexas
Luckily nothing happened to me.
08-07-2005, 11:53 PM
#87
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Originally Posted by StealthFox
your priorities are messed up. with the car you're looking for you need to dump the 8. GIVE UP its not a ******* true purpose built sportscar that minute things like moonroofs are going to severly alter your already subpar performance or really matter. go buy yourself an FD, miata, EVO, used NSX, porsche boxter, lotus elise or better yet a track car. if you're going to bitch about 150 pounds, go buy a car thats light in the first place and is a purpose built sporting car. its like, if you want to get a fit girl, and theres a fat chick and a fit chick in front of you, would you ask the fit girl out and have what you want right away? or would you ask the fat chick out and bust your ***** trying to get her to lose weight? you could also say its like buying a geo metro to make into a fast street racer car, or buying a miata to make a good worktruck.
08-08-2005, 12:00 AM
#88
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Originally Posted by DARKMAZ8
the car started oversteering to the right so I corrected it by braking and steering left.
I think that's your problem right there. One of the hardest things for me to learn in driving a racecar was that when the back end steps out, the thing to do is to keep your foot in it. Lifting or braking will shift the weight to the front and give the back even less grip, when it needs it most.
One night I decided to be a genious and turn off DSC while I showed my car off to some friends. Coming out of a banked hairpin backroad the rear stepped out and we did 3 or 4 tankslappers before I gathered it up. Never again will I drive without DSC. It's not just for bad weather and it is possible to activate it in the dry.
08-08-2005, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by IkeWRX
Listen to the boy, he doesn't even have a drivers license so clearly he knows what he is talking about. Also if anyone wants some good restaurant suggestions I know an anorexic girl that has a ton of them, just let me know!
08-08-2005, 05:32 AM
#90
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Originally Posted by BLUE_SIX
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS AFTER U LOSE CONTROL... SPIN... 720 SPIN AND HIT A HIGHWAY BRIDGE CONCRETE COLUMN....
http://photos.yahoo.com/m22intexas
Luckily nothing happened to me.
http://photos.yahoo.com/m22intexas
Luckily nothing happened to me.
08-21-2005, 06:34 AM
#91
RX8INCH
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Yep, I was driving on cold tires through a tight s turn and got bit! Luckly, I some how recovered and there was no apparent damage other than tire wear. Pulled a nice 720 and kept it in the lane. I'm not sure if DSC could of prevented this but I have a base 8 and took the turn at 120km/h. Anyone else survived a close call like this? I'm still in shock and I'm just glad that my RWD driving experience payed off. Even my passenger said that it was a miracle that I made the recovery.
Anyways, Don't hit the corners with cold tires.
Anyways, Don't hit the corners with cold tires.
Last edited by RX8INCH; 08-21-2005 at 06:37 AM.
08-24-2005, 03:44 PM
#92
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Wow. Amazing stuff. Any book you can read about this from or would I have to attend a driving school?
C
C
Most everyone these days grows up driving FWD cars. With FWD no matter what goes wrong you just lift and it will usually get better. Then someone moves up to RWD cars with no DSC (base 8, S2000, etc) and they take a turn too fast amd the back end gets loose and the driver goes "oops, I need to lift - I am going too fast". This induces trailing throttle oversteer and the car rotates MORE - then they normally panic and lift all the way which can end up in snap oversteer and around you go. You can be countersteering the whole time and still go around if you lift hard enough and transition the weight off the back tires. Spins may be the #1 single car wreck cause in a car like the S2000 (the newer models are less prone to coming around due to changes Honda made). Heck, even a Miata is pretty easy to rotate if you lift enough - and on hot race tires (ask me how I know 
). It is pretty wild at a track even to see experienced drivers start to lose it in a corner and GET ON THE GAS MORE along with counter-steering to save the car.
Dennis
). It is pretty wild at a track even to see experienced drivers start to lose it in a corner and GET ON THE GAS MORE along with counter-steering to save the car.Dennis
08-26-2005, 10:06 AM
#93
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Re tire heat:
Having run well north of 10,000 miles on real racing tires running SCCA races for 15 years, and having owned many high performance street cars including a real 289 Cobra (and now an RX), I would be very surprised if tire temperature had much to do with looping the car. Street tire compounds, for good reason, do not behave like racing compounds. Nor does street driving put much heat into the tires.
I mention this only so people don't think there is some kind of magic in having street tires that are "warmed up." Some of the sticky "street" autocross tires, maybe, but definitely not the OEM tires and similar high performance rubber.
Re "It is pretty wild at a track even to see experienced drivers start to lose it in a corner and GET ON THE GAS MORE along with counter-steering to save the car."
To further make the point, the goal is to neutralize the fore/aft vector so that 100% of the adhesion can go into trying to keep the car from sliding. A tire basically has the same amount of stick regardless what it is doing. You can use it for accelerating, for stopping, or for cornering -- in any mix. So you want neutral gas, neither accelerating nor deceleratiing.
Related to this, there is a cornering technique used by some front wheel drive racers where they apply a little braking while keeping the accelerator floored. This has the effect of loosening the rear tires (since now 100% is not available for lateral acceleration). It can get the car straightened out more quickly when exiting a turn, but you have to be really good to use it effectively.
Having run well north of 10,000 miles on real racing tires running SCCA races for 15 years, and having owned many high performance street cars including a real 289 Cobra (and now an RX), I would be very surprised if tire temperature had much to do with looping the car. Street tire compounds, for good reason, do not behave like racing compounds. Nor does street driving put much heat into the tires.
I mention this only so people don't think there is some kind of magic in having street tires that are "warmed up." Some of the sticky "street" autocross tires, maybe, but definitely not the OEM tires and similar high performance rubber.
Re "It is pretty wild at a track even to see experienced drivers start to lose it in a corner and GET ON THE GAS MORE along with counter-steering to save the car."
To further make the point, the goal is to neutralize the fore/aft vector so that 100% of the adhesion can go into trying to keep the car from sliding. A tire basically has the same amount of stick regardless what it is doing. You can use it for accelerating, for stopping, or for cornering -- in any mix. So you want neutral gas, neither accelerating nor deceleratiing.
Related to this, there is a cornering technique used by some front wheel drive racers where they apply a little braking while keeping the accelerator floored. This has the effect of loosening the rear tires (since now 100% is not available for lateral acceleration). It can get the car straightened out more quickly when exiting a turn, but you have to be really good to use it effectively.
08-26-2005, 02:05 PM
#94
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I don't think DSC would have a hope in Hell of saving me. DSC is for bad road conditions. I have heard that it is very hard to activate in the dry.
It would probably had made a huge difference in that case. I think it would be pretty difficult to spin the car in the dry with DSC on short of something like pulling the ebrake. Its people that don't know the limits of their car doing dumb things on the road that end up killing someone.
08-26-2005, 03:13 PM
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A few weeks ago I drove my father's RX-8 (mine when he's done with it) for a roundtrip between Virginia and Michigan. I took the long way to include some of the most challenging roads in the country in WV and OH.
First off, I feel it's very hard to lose control of this car on a dry road. In the entire 2500 miles I heard less from the tires than I hear during a ten-mile test drive in a Camry. And I was pushing the car hard.
Second, on the two turns that I slightly miscalculated, in each case the third or fourth in a tight series, I was very happy to have the DSC. It worked flawlessly for the split second I needed it. Like many in this thread I would not personally want the car without it.
I've also thought about the S2000 from time to time. Even with the rear suspension corrections for 2004 the rear end of that car is far trickier. DSC would be welcome on that car.
[Update: It's on the '06.]
Somewhere along the thread a price comparison argument broke out. My site performs the most thorough comparisons I'm aware of. For the most popular matches go to the RX-8 page at www.truedelta.com/models/rx-8.php .
Finally, DSC can't add a significant amount of weight, as it uses the hardware already in place for the standard ABS. The Xenons and foglamps likely add more weight than the DSC. The moonroof of the Touring and power seat of the GT are another story. My father's car is a Sport.
First off, I feel it's very hard to lose control of this car on a dry road. In the entire 2500 miles I heard less from the tires than I hear during a ten-mile test drive in a Camry. And I was pushing the car hard.
Second, on the two turns that I slightly miscalculated, in each case the third or fourth in a tight series, I was very happy to have the DSC. It worked flawlessly for the split second I needed it. Like many in this thread I would not personally want the car without it.
I've also thought about the S2000 from time to time. Even with the rear suspension corrections for 2004 the rear end of that car is far trickier. DSC would be welcome on that car.
[Update: It's on the '06.]
Somewhere along the thread a price comparison argument broke out. My site performs the most thorough comparisons I'm aware of. For the most popular matches go to the RX-8 page at www.truedelta.com/models/rx-8.php .
Finally, DSC can't add a significant amount of weight, as it uses the hardware already in place for the standard ABS. The Xenons and foglamps likely add more weight than the DSC. The moonroof of the Touring and power seat of the GT are another story. My father's car is a Sport.
Last edited by mkaresh; 08-31-2005 at 11:56 PM.
08-31-2005, 11:54 PM
#98
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I just read that the S2000 gets DSC for '06. Gotta wonder why Honda took so long to realize how much the car needs it. But better late than never.
Stealthfox:
Unfortunately I'm approaching 40 with three kids. Daily driver is a Protege5. I like 'em nimble. Convinced my father he needed the RX-8 because I thought of buying one, but the P5 only has 20k on it. This way I'll use it another year or two until he gets tired of the RX-8. Plan is to then have a minivan or crossover as a winter/ higher capacity second vehicle.
Stealthfox:
Unfortunately I'm approaching 40 with three kids. Daily driver is a Protege5. I like 'em nimble. Convinced my father he needed the RX-8 because I thought of buying one, but the P5 only has 20k on it. This way I'll use it another year or two until he gets tired of the RX-8. Plan is to then have a minivan or crossover as a winter/ higher capacity second vehicle.
09-01-2005, 01:58 AM
#99
Originally Posted by mkaresh
I just read that the S2000 gets DSC for '06. Gotta wonder why Honda took so long to realize how much the car needs it. But better late than never.
What cars NEED are competent drivers. What cars lack, are just that.