Spin9k

"Dr. Felix Heinrich Wankel (August 13, 1902–October 9, 1988) was the German inventor of the Wankel engine. ... Wankel received no university education or even an apprenticeship. However he was able to teach himself technical subjects and conceived the idea of the rotary engine in 1924." (82 yrs old)

"The four-stroke cycle (or Otto cycle) ..... was conceptualized by the French engineer, Alphonse Beau de Rochas in 1862, and independently, by the German engineer Nikolaus Otto in 1876." (130 yrs old)

Both are fairly aged.

missinmahseven

Not quite. Dr. Wankel dreamt up his little wankelmotor when he was in his teens, but the depression (worldwide, not just US) and WWII made it so the first wankelmotor fired up in the 1950's. Mazda got it in the late 50's, and by the late 60's (10 years!) had a twinrotor 10-A, the grand-daddy of the 12A and 13B.

In contrast, 4-stroke boingers were in use in the late 1800's, as in the Benz Patentwagen.

The boinger has at least 60 years on the wankelmotor.

T-von

Not to mention more manufacturers were making the boinger in mass production autos, while only Mazda went forward with a production version of the rotary. There is a HUGH difference in the R&D when you compare the two engines.

KKMmaniac

Has anyone thought about using Marvel Mystery Oil in the oil or gas? It is supposed to help burn away carbon deposits, but I would hesitate to use it in a newer vehicle without hearing any testimonials.

If you do a search on the RX7club.com website you'll probably find a lot of references to it; I have used it in my old RX7 (in the gas) but didn't really notice a difference in performance.

MrJynx

I guess me being **** with changing the oil is a good thing. I change my oil every 3000km's so i've had about 15 oil changes so far ..



MrJynx

G8rboy

Thanks for passing on this info RG... it helps defend my **** 2500mile oil change interval and daily "Rx" of redlining at least once per trip (once fully warmed up, of course).

rotarygod

I'm typically a fan of extended oil change intervals since todays oils are formulated so well and don't break down very fast. This engine is different only due to the higher oil temps and excess carbon buildup. This is oine of the single biggest reasons I am a fan of using no ash synthetic oils. They burn completely clean with little to no carbon unlike conventional oils. Contrary to some beliefs, these oils are much better, not worse, than conventionals in this regards.

RichardK

And a lot of the engineering theory behind the 4 stroke was derived from existing concepts of controlling pressure within a cylinder, leverage, and pistons.

I'm right in thinking that the first Rotary engined car was available in '62, and the first Mazda rotary in '63, though, aren't I? Or did Mazda beat NSU (I'm mostly familiar with the Ro80, which is later)?

G8rboy

NSU worked with Wankel first in the 50's to productionalize the first rotary, then Mazda licensed the technology from NSU in the 60's... I'm pretty sure.

G8rboy

You're the one that convinced me that synthetics are not evil for the rotary... I've been transitioning from Castrol GTX to their synth blend over the last two changes (since so much is left in the lines and coolers), and now going to move to a full synthetic on my next change. You still recommend Royal Purple as the best low-ash synth?

RichardK

Yeah, I'm just trying to remember who actually sold a car to the public first, which is - in my opinion - the benchmark by which the technology is considered relevant. I thought it was NSU, but then I thought NSU had the productionized engine in '61 and had also licensed the engine to Mazda, but Mazda's Cosmo may have beaten NSU to market. I could google of course, but it's not something I need to know, I just wondered if I had remembered correctly.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

just did a quick google search

NSU released their first production rotary car in 1963

Mazda Cosmo 110 was released as production model in 1967

so yea NSU released the first ever production rotary car.

HeavyMetal699

Out of curiousity, is it possible to machine an adaptor of sorts to go in between the MOP and the engine. Instead of trying to build a new MOP that gets oil from a reservoir im wondering if its possible to use the one we already have and just somehow route the oil from a reservoir instead of from the engine using an adaptor in between. I think its been covered before but does the MOP need oil pressure to even operate?

yiksing

Check it out in the rx7 forum, someone did a DIY and RG posted it somewhere. I'm pretty convinced by RG this is the way to go, separate synthetic oil for engine and 2 stroke for combustion chamber. Mazda should have done it this way, I think.

HeavyMetal699

I agree it would of been nice if Mazda did it that way at first, but I'm sure it would of hurt their car sells though, people want cars to be hassle free.

http://rotaryaviation.com/oil_inject...p_adaptors.htm
I found that but nothing RX-8 specific. Im going to guess that the MOP has changed and the adaptor for the 13B will not work with the Renesis. If no one else has done it and offered it for sell maybe we can get Richard Paul to machine a MOP adaptor.

HeavyMetal699

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.ph...&highlight=mop

There is the DIY you were talking about for the MOP. I would rather have an adaptor to go in between just in case I decide to sell the car. Basically i want the cleanest install i can possibly have. If a Renesis specific adaptor is not out yet maybe i could post this in the aftermarket forum to see if anyone else is interested in such a modification. If a few people show interest maybe someone with the tools will machine an adaptor.

daisuke

I use MMO in my gas and oil, and although I have a saturn SL2 and not an 8, I think there's probably no downside to using it. My engine has 240,000 miles on it just as a benchmark...

After starting to use MMO and adopting a more aggresive driving routine I can feel the increase in both compression and power in my car, and it's not just the butt-o-meter telling me this, I used to be able to coast my car down the cuesta grade in 5th gear at precisely 70 mph, after a few weeks of the change I can't get it to go that fast anymore and need to go on the throttle to keep it there.

My oil has been turning black with use very quickly, so I can tell that the MMO is making a difference by slowly getting rid of the carbon that must be built up all over the inside of that engine.

I don't see the point in putting it in the oil for the renesis, but I sure as hell can see the point in putting it in the fuel, that extra lubrication and cleaning power is probably just what the doctor ordered.

alcimedes

Don't use MMO in a rotary. It is very bad. Don't have time to do the search for the threads, but it basically does exactly the opposite of what you want in your car's oil when you're driving a rotary.

9291150

Good post rotarygod.

With the formula renesis engines, does anyone know if they did any mods to it, or is it all stock? I heard all they did was a lightened flywheel and an open exhaust. How long did the formula guys run their engines before they noticed seal degradation?

Any stock engine in race conditions will eventually see problems, the question is how soon?

rx8wannahave

AMEN, I will remain calm about RG's thread...but my freakout senses sure do want to go nuts over this.

Anyway, that's why I use almost always Chevron gas with Techron, I want my engine to be as clean as possible...espcially since this is my first rotary engine.

Thanks for the information RG.

RX-Aight

Why not do regular fuel injection services?

http://www.mightyautoparts.com/produ...#intakecleaner

this is what I use and it does the trick!

rotarygod

My RX-7 oil metering pump is modified to pull 2 stroke oil from a separate reservoir. I have no adapter. It's not that hard to do.

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

How often do you do this?

deamicls

iTrader: (1)

What if you drive your car pretty hard? Will using conventional oil cause that kind of carbon build up compared to Synthetic?

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

actually, driving HARD (like frequent redlining and high rpm driving) is exactly what a rotary needs to clean out the carbon buildups, regardless of what type of oil it uses