bascho

Yesterday I visited a Ford dealer about trading in my RX8 for a Mustang GT (Ford offering 72 months at 0% financing). Well, the dealer was only able to offer me $20K for my 2005 Shinka with 12,000 miles on it. I owe $26K so immediately I have $6K in negative equity to roll over. Some dealers were only offering to give my dealer $18K because they can't sell them, so they don't want them. This is pretty sad considering the buy-out at the end of my lease(in 2 years) is $17K. So Mazda expects me to pay them $17K in 2 years for a 3 year old car with 36,000 miles when their dealers are only willing to pay $20K for a 1 year old car with 12,000 miles!!!!! Has anyone been able to lower their buy-out price based on the market value being so much lower? At this point I could not imagine buying this car out of the lease because if I really wanted to have an RX8, I could just buy someone else's 2005 RX8 for a lot less.

Silver_Surfer

Anytime you go to a dealer, you will loose! They have to offer you something really low. Because of their markup & if they cant move the vehicle in 30 days they loose.

RevTo9K

That's exactly it, and that's the risk that the lease company took when they bought the car, and rented it to you. They made a guess what the car would be worth in 3 years, they paid for the car in full, and then they arranged financing for your share. If they had a crystal ball, they would have probably used a much lower residual, and your payments would have been higher all along. Like you said, it will probably be cheaper for you to go buy a different RX-8 when your lease is up.

msrecant

Yes, RX-8 "trade in" and resale is not all that great. With the engine recall it will probably get worse.

You may want to try a private sale, however it is will probably be hard for you to get $26K for a 2005 8 with 12K miles. Dealers are still selling new left-over 2005s for that and most people will not appreciate the difference between a Shinka and a regular GT or Touring model.

Good luck!

DrDiaboloco

Unless your lease is unusual, you wouldn't be able to do a "trade-in" anyway... You don't own the car and an early lease termination usually has a HUGE hit.

I also don't understand how you can owe $26k on a LEASE, unless you're including the buyout price at the end in that number... Sounds like you owe $9k over two years, and you don't HAVE to buy the car at the end.

If buying the car at the end was your plan, why didn't you do a purchase? You'd still be upside-down on your loan but at least you could dump the car if you wanted to.

bascho

I've had the car for sale for 2 weeks at $26K and haven't had a single call.

bascho

Even though the car is a lease there is still a buy-out price. If you financed though MAC then you can go to their website, log into your account and one of the folder tabs will give you your current pay-off amount. It's a moving target throughout the lease ultimately ending in the amount on the lease agreement. If you want out of a lease early you have to cover the entire buy-out amout plus a $200 penalty fee. In my case the current lease buy-out is $26k. With a dealer trade-in price of $20K I would have $6K in negative equity to roll over.....if I was able to sell on my own then I can lower the amount I would owe......possibly reducing it to $0 if the car sold for $26K. The cost for me to get out of the lease right now is $6K because the dealer can only get $20K at auction hense their trade-in offer.

I chose to lease instead of buy because I was not familar with Japanese cars or the rotary engine, I was unsure of long-term maintainence costs associated with both. Now I am happy that I didn't purchase because then I would really be screwed. Luckily I can just ride out the lease and walk away......but I really do enjoy my car and would consider a buy-out at a price that was more in-line with the market.

TownDrunk

Leases are notoriously ugly to terminate early, not so much because of penalties, but because you'll typically owe more than the car's worth considering total lease payments + buyout cost (Which is where you're getting your $26K figure right?).

Your best bet (financially) may be to simply wait out the next two years. Just think of all the other cool cars that will come out by then. That is, unless you think somehow by getting rid of your '8 you can recoup the $6K deficit that you'll incur now.

One thing you can try is to have someone assume your lease. Check out sites like http://www.LeaseTrader.com

BTW, cool Thoth avie.

msrecant

I would plan on driving the RX-8 for another 2 years.

Silver_Surfer

It's gonna be really hard to break even on this one. Whats the going price in your neck of the woods? If you want to move the 8 fast you will have to beat that by maybe $1-2,000.00

bascho

I've looked into the lease trade route and the thing that holds me back is MAC's original leasee liability. Swapalease offered an insurance to cover for that liability....so it might be an option. The problem is that dealers are offering huge incentives on "new old stock" bringing my lease price of $444 very close to that of brand new RX8's. Who wants a 1yr old car over a new one? Only someone that really loves the 05 Shinka with the BCM paint.

My avatar is of Tehuti.....Thoth is pretty close though.

CosmosMpower

Duh because you could almost get an 05 Shinka for that NEW. I paid 22 OUT THE DOOR for my 05 sport with apperance/rotary accents brand new 3 months ago. I think the shinka they had on the lot was going for 26-27 and GT's were going for 24-25 OTD.

bascho

I know! That is why these incentives to clear out unsold 2005's are killing the secondary market. I leased mine in Sept of 2005 before the incentives really started. Hell, had I waited 4 months I would have been able to get this car for $3K less

TownDrunk

Bummer. Hopefully it works out for you one way or another.

On a side note, I've been fascinated by ancient civilizations for many years. Thoth and I go way back.

bascho

I fixed my last response.....my avatar is Tehuti not Thoth.....but they are very close in appearance. I also love learning about Egyption gods and history.....definitely interesting stuff.

bascho

Actually my price is pretty competitive considering there are very few Shinkas for sale anywhere near MI. I am going to update my ad each month with the new price (reduced by my monthly pmt).......of course the mileage will be higher each time. I'll do what I can to sell.....but I have a feeling I'm stuck for two more years.

alfy28

i hope things get better for yah bas. btw i like the dog god, i think is the one who guides the ppl when they die to the heaven type of land.

bascho

Thanks alfy

My avie is Tehuti, the God of Knowledge

rodrigo67

I'm almost in the same boat but at the other end. My lease ends in 7 months on an 04 mt touring, appearance, and spoiler. Buyout is 19K for 30,000 miles.

I ask myself would I buy a 3 year old rx8 with 30K on it for 19K, and the answer I come away with is no, I wouldn't.

Other considerations are, I only have 15K on the car so would also be getting back just under 3 K when I turn it in.

Taken as a whole I would be paying 22K ( 19K for the buyout and 3K that I wouldn't be getting back) for a 15K miles 04 rx8.

Most likely will be giving it back...

MTLbroker

1] Whether you leased or bought the car, you would still be upside down.

2] Just because you have a fixed lease term, you cannot assume that the new car's depreciation will follow a straight line during that term. Depreciation of 15-20% as soon as you drive off the lot is expected.

3] Dealer incentives on new cars will kill resale value of almost new car. Put another way, I can finance a new car for a lot less than a slightly used car. Ergo, the price of the used car must reflect this.

4] Has nothing to do with brand of car or model of car. The market is what it is......

VikingDJ

That's not entirely true, as there are exceptions. I drove my 04 STI over 28k miles, for over two years, with nothing but oil changes needed, and not even a hint of problem or trips to dealer. I bought it new for $29000 (900 below invoice). I got $23000 on a trade in, and on top of that took advantage of a Mazdaspeed 6 deal that's $259 a month, with a $17000 buyout option. Basically they wrote me a check for $20000 (3000 covered the due at signing tax and tags, and first month's payment). When all is said and done, this car if I chose the buyout will only cost me a bit over $25000 (I won't do it because the depreciation is bad like the RX8). Of course had I financed it I'd have likely gotten it for $24000, but you can't beat the right deals at the right time. The demand for the STI is so huge, it's selling used for well over KBB, so I jumped ship.

The RX8 was said by Edmunds to be one of the top cars in holding it's value, which was a premature praise. When they started unloading the huge inventory of 04 models for insane prices, and everyone on here was bragging about getting their car for $3000+ below invoice, this was going to destroy the market for this car, and thats exactly what it did. What it comes down to is making sure you want to keep this car for a very long time, so you don't expose yourself to this horrible resale, and no demand used. I took a big hit myself in unloading my RX8,. as I got mine for invoice, which at one point was a great deal, but now it's a crappy deal. I'd hang onto the car , finish up the lease, cut your losses and hand it back to them. It's ashame a wonderful car like this got overproduced. Mazda should have kept it limited like the S2000, and not massively produced it, especially in 2004.

bascho

I agree with most of what you say....except for #4. Although every brand and model experiences this to some degree.....some are better than others. The RX8 seems to have a faster depreciation than other Mazda models and it's directly related to year-end incentives. Mazda's has built too many RX8's year after year and it's hurting the resale big time. Strange considering this car has been on the C&D 10 Best list for all three years of it's existance. That's something most companies would advertise like crazy....not Mazda though, they like to keep the RX8 a secret

bascho

I agree 100%

bascho

No one has answered my question about MAC lowering the buy-out yet. Has anyone experienced this? The facts are that in 2 years I am going to turn-in my lease. I have the option to buy at $17K meaning that over the 3 years I've paid the difference between the sale price and the $17K residual. Now, MAC needs to recover the $17K from somewhere so they have to sell the car. I am fairly confident that MAC will not recover the $17K at auction in 2 years as they can only get $18-20K right now. Lets say the auction price would be $13K in two years. I might be willing to pay $13K for the buy-out because I really do like this car. What are the chances of MAC lowering the buy-out price to me down to the more reasonable price they can expect to get at auction?

BlueSky

Anoobis