Some bad news about RX8 trade-ins
 

Yesterday I visited a Ford dealer about trading in my RX8 for a Mustang GT (Ford offering 72 months at 0% financing). Well, the dealer was only able to offer me $20K for my 2005 Shinka with 12,000 miles on it. I owe $26K so immediately I have $6K in negative equity to roll over. Some dealers were only offering to give my dealer $18K because they can't sell them, so they don't want them. This is pretty sad considering the buy-out at the end of my lease(in 2 years) is $17K. So Mazda expects me to pay them $17K in 2 years for a 3 year old car with 36,000 miles when their dealers are only willing to pay $20K for a 1 year old car with 12,000 miles!!!!! Has anyone been able to lower their buy-out price based on the market value being so much lower? At this point I could not imagine buying this car out of the lease because if I really wanted to have an RX8, I could just buy someone else's 2005 RX8 for a lot less.

Anytime you go to a dealer, you will loose! They have to offer you something really low. Because of their markup & if they cant move the vehicle in 30 days they loose.

That's exactly it, and that's the risk that the lease company took when they bought the car, and rented it to you. They made a guess what the car would be worth in 3 years, they paid for the car in full, and then they arranged financing for your share. If they had a crystal ball, they would have probably used a much lower residual, and your payments would have been higher all along. Like you said, it will probably be cheaper for you to go buy a different RX-8 when your lease is up.

Yes, RX-8 "trade in" and resale is not all that great. With the engine recall it will probably get worse.

You may want to try a private sale, however it is will probably be hard for you to get $26K for a 2005 8 with 12K miles. Dealers are still selling new left-over 2005s for that and most people will not appreciate the difference between a Shinka and a regular GT or Touring model.

Good luck!

Unless your lease is unusual, you wouldn't be able to do a "trade-in" anyway... You don't own the car and an early lease termination usually has a HUGE hit.

I also don't understand how you can owe $26k on a LEASE, unless you're including the buyout price at the end in that number... Sounds like you owe $9k over two years, and you don't HAVE to buy the car at the end.

If buying the car at the end was your plan, why didn't you do a purchase? You'd still be upside-down on your loan but at least you could dump the car if you wanted to.

I've had the car for sale for 2 weeks at $26K and haven't had a single call.

Even though the car is a lease there is still a buy-out price. If you financed though MAC then you can go to their website, log into your account and one of the folder tabs will give you your current pay-off amount. It's a moving target throughout the lease ultimately ending in the amount on the lease agreement. If you want out of a lease early you have to cover the entire buy-out amout plus a $200 penalty fee. In my case the current lease buy-out is $26k. With a dealer trade-in price of $20K I would have $6K in negative equity to roll over.....if I was able to sell on my own then I can lower the amount I would owe......possibly reducing it to $0 if the car sold for $26K. The cost for me to get out of the lease right now is $6K because the dealer can only get $20K at auction hense their trade-in offer.

I chose to lease instead of buy because I was not familar with Japanese cars or the rotary engine, I was unsure of long-term maintainence costs associated with both. Now I am happy that I didn't purchase because then I would really be screwed. Luckily I can just ride out the lease and walk away......but I really do enjoy my car and would consider a buy-out at a price that was more in-line with the market.

Leases are notoriously ugly to terminate early, not so much because of penalties, but because you'll typically owe more than the car's worth considering total lease payments + buyout cost (Which is where you're getting your $26K figure right?).

Your best bet (financially) may be to simply wait out the next two years. Just think of all the other cool cars that will come out by then. That is, unless you think somehow by getting rid of your '8 you can recoup the $6K deficit that you'll incur now.

One thing you can try is to have someone assume your lease. Check out sites like http://www.LeaseTrader.com

BTW, cool Thoth avie.

I would plan on driving the RX-8 for another 2 years.

It's gonna be really hard to break even on this one. Whats the going price in your neck of the woods? If you want to move the 8 fast you will have to beat that by maybe $1-2,000.00 :wallbash:

I've looked into the lease trade route and the thing that holds me back is MAC's original leasee liability. Swapalease offered an insurance to cover for that liability....so it might be an option. The problem is that dealers are offering huge incentives on "new old stock" bringing my lease price of $444 very close to that of brand new RX8's. Who wants a 1yr old car over a new one? Only someone that really loves the 05 Shinka with the BCM paint.

My avatar is of Tehuti.....Thoth is pretty close though.

Duh because you could almost get an 05 Shinka for that NEW. I paid 22 OUT THE DOOR for my 05 sport with apperance/rotary accents brand new 3 months ago. I think the shinka they had on the lot was going for 26-27 and GT's were going for 24-25 OTD.

I know! That is why these incentives to clear out unsold 2005's are killing the secondary market. I leased mine in Sept of 2005 before the incentives really started. Hell, had I waited 4 months I would have been able to get this car for $3K less :(

Bummer. Hopefully it works out for you one way or another.

On a side note, I've been fascinated by ancient civilizations for many years. Thoth and I go way back.http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/owen/egypt1.gif

I fixed my last response.....my avatar is Tehuti not Thoth.....but they are very close in appearance. I also love learning about Egyption gods and history.....definitely interesting stuff.

Actually my price is pretty competitive considering there are very few Shinkas for sale anywhere near MI. I am going to update my ad each month with the new price (reduced by my monthly pmt).......of course the mileage will be higher each time. I'll do what I can to sell.....but I have a feeling I'm stuck for two more years.

i hope things get better for yah bas. btw i like the dog god, i think is the one who guides the ppl when they die to the heaven type of land.

Thanks alfy :)

My avie is Tehuti, the God of Knowledge :)

I'm almost in the same boat but at the other end. My lease ends in 7 months on an 04 mt touring, appearance, and spoiler. Buyout is 19K for 30,000 miles.

I ask myself would I buy a 3 year old rx8 with 30K on it for 19K, and the answer I come away with is no, I wouldn't.

Other considerations are, I only have 15K on the car so would also be getting back just under 3 K when I turn it in.

Taken as a whole I would be paying 22K ( 19K for the buyout and 3K that I wouldn't be getting back) for a 15K miles 04 rx8.

Most likely will be giving it back...

1] Whether you leased or bought the car, you would still be upside down.

2] Just because you have a fixed lease term, you cannot assume that the new car's depreciation will follow a straight line during that term. Depreciation of 15-20% as soon as you drive off the lot is expected.

3] Dealer incentives on new cars will kill resale value of almost new car. Put another way, I can finance a new car for a lot less than a slightly used car. Ergo, the price of the used car must reflect this.

4] Has nothing to do with brand of car or model of car. The market is what it is......

That's not entirely true, as there are exceptions. I drove my 04 STI over 28k miles, for over two years, with nothing but oil changes needed, and not even a hint of problem or trips to dealer. I bought it new for $29000 (900 below invoice). I got $23000 on a trade in, and on top of that took advantage of a Mazdaspeed 6 deal that's $259 a month, with a $17000 buyout option. Basically they wrote me a check for $20000 (3000 covered the due at signing tax and tags, and first month's payment). When all is said and done, this car if I chose the buyout will only cost me a bit over $25000 (I won't do it because the depreciation is bad like the RX8). Of course had I financed it I'd have likely gotten it for $24000, but you can't beat the right deals at the right time. The demand for the STI is so huge, it's selling used for well over KBB, so I jumped ship. :)

The RX8 was said by Edmunds to be one of the top cars in holding it's value, which was a premature praise. When they started unloading the huge inventory of 04 models for insane prices, and everyone on here was bragging about getting their car for $3000+ below invoice, this was going to destroy the market for this car, and thats exactly what it did. What it comes down to is making sure you want to keep this car for a very long time, so you don't expose yourself to this horrible resale, and no demand used. I took a big hit myself in unloading my RX8,. as I got mine for invoice, which at one point was a great deal, but now it's a crappy deal. I'd hang onto the car , finish up the lease, cut your losses and hand it back to them. It's ashame a wonderful car like this got overproduced. Mazda should have kept it limited like the S2000, and not massively produced it, especially in 2004.

I agree with most of what you say....except for #4. Although every brand and model experiences this to some degree.....some are better than others. The RX8 seems to have a faster depreciation than other Mazda models and it's directly related to year-end incentives. Mazda's has built too many RX8's year after year and it's hurting the resale big time. Strange considering this car has been on the C&D 10 Best list for all three years of it's existance. That's something most companies would advertise like crazy....not Mazda though, they like to keep the RX8 a secret ;)

I agree 100%

No one has answered my question about MAC lowering the buy-out yet. Has anyone experienced this? The facts are that in 2 years I am going to turn-in my lease. I have the option to buy at $17K meaning that over the 3 years I've paid the difference between the sale price and the $17K residual. Now, MAC needs to recover the $17K from somewhere so they have to sell the car. I am fairly confident that MAC will not recover the $17K at auction in 2 years as they can only get $18-20K right now. Lets say the auction price would be $13K in two years. I might be willing to pay $13K for the buy-out because I really do like this car. What are the chances of MAC lowering the buy-out price to me down to the more reasonable price they can expect to get at auction?

Anoobis

Anyway, bascho, why would you want to get that archaic pos mustange gt? Have you ever been inside one? I plopped into the drivers seat of one back when I was shopping for 8's and I felt like a had entered some tupperware nightmare.

I tried to get out of a lease a few years ago to "trade up" to a more expensive vehicle, ironically a Mustang in specific. This was through Ford... And the short answer was that I was going to have to completely pay off the lease, which was still 14mos from being "up". I elected to not throw my money away. :)

I'd say your chances of talking them down on the buyout price is pretty much nil.

I'm wondering that myself, since I'm in a similiar position with my MS6. The difference is I got such a great deal on the MS6, it's pretty much unlikely for me. (same $17000 buyout as you on a $29k msrp car but only $259 a month). Common sense does tell me that come time to hand that car in, if they don't want the car, the market value is below what is owed, or they feel that they can't recover the 17000 easily, I think they will offer you a deal on the buyout. It would be in their best interest to that's for sure, because I highly doubt that they want that car back. Of course who knows what the market will be like two years from now. Just be careful, as the fine print states that the dealership is allowed to determine what they consider to be excess wear. It's something I'm a bit weery of, and I'm sorry if I worry you at all on this.

Basically, they got us by the gonads when it comes to handing in this car, because it's a MAC lease that wants you to buyout the car. My guess is they will work with you and if you keep the condition of this car pristine, you will likely see a lowering in that buyout, but it probably won't be enough of a deal to make you want to buy it. :)

I wanted to get one while Ford was offering the 72 month for 0% plan......that dosen't happen very often. I agree that the Mustang is no where near the same class as the RX8. The interior was cheap and the fit and finish sucked.......but man what an engine :) I will eventually buy one and I'll take it to Cervini's to have the C500 conversion performed.

I'm sure they're lots of people in the same boat as us and Mazda is going to have to rethink the buy-out prices for us. Like you said I am sure they would rather sell to us at a revised figure than hope to get that figure at auction. I'm not worried about the condition of my car because it's garage kept and not really driven in the winter time.....plus I am meticulus in the care of my cars. If anyone wants to check out my ride they can at http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...eadExists=true

I may buy a 2nd 8.

I'm going to go to the dealer and offer $21,000 for the new 6 speed GT they have sitting there.

I shall alternate driving my 8s, dependent upon weather and general mood.

$21,000 for a new 6-speed GT? Good luck.

I think you will find that Mazda (or any leasing company) will simply execute the terms of the lease as stated in your existing agreement because I don't think they care. They have already made their money with your down payment and monthly payment and will not be looking to make any money on the resale of the used car.

In answer to the original question, leasing companies may lower the agreed-to buyout price at the end of the lease if they find that the value of the car at that time is less than the buyout price. Though I have no direct experience that MAC will do the same.

Looking at it from their perspective, they'd much rather sell to you for the same price they might get elsewhere, without going through all the paperwork, fix-up, etc...

When your lease is up, contact them and ask for a figure. If it seems high, make them a fair offer. The worst they can say is no, at which time you give them the car (which is why you decided to lease rather than buy) and walk away.

A good plan----if you take care of the car it should easily last you 15 years(my former 1988 TII is still running strong)so your annual capital cost would be no more than$21000/15= $1400 per year!Fairly economical.

Since you said that, I shall now only offer $19,999.99.

^^^Oh so it was a joke then.

I'm not so sure on the making money part there. I leased a new 04 touring MT with appearance and spoiler for $279 a month for 30 months which totals $8370. Interest was half at 4170 ( required going thru Mazda) and principle was 4200, for a total price of the car at 23,200 (payout and principle paid), and my down payment of 1500 is a final price of 24,700. Now If I give them the car back instead of the 19K, I'm way under miles and will get back 3K, they are out 22K (19K for the car and 3K payback) on a 3 year old rx8 with 15k miles that originally sold for under 25k which MSRP for 32K. I don't see how they made thier money on this...

I guess I will find out if they will lower the price in 6 months.

You got me there. My MS6 is kept outside, and is essentially a winter/beater car. My S2000 is treated like your RX8, so I suppose I'd not worry about the condition either. I just know what the winter did to my STI, with all the highway driving, road rash, scratches ect ect from two harsh winters, so I'm a bit concerned. I have the same exact color MS6 as your RX8, and that color shows imperfections like a mofo. it might as well be black. Inheinsight I should have gotten that TIT Grey, because every little rock chip and scratch is aparently visible on this color car. I have to look into if my comprensive will cover it if they get anal on me cosmetically, and try and force a buyout. There have been horror stories on leases that were not more then normally worn, but the dealerships played god, and made their own rules, and nitpicked at blemishes. It may never happen, but considering how I am using this car I have to really try and keep it in the best cosmetic shape I can, which is not easy when driving all highway in harsh weather.
I guess it's gonna come down to if the market value is less then the buyout. That's really the only shot at getting a nice reduction, but you really will not know until that time comes. The RX8 has a horrible resale value right now, but it could taper off when it reaches the $17000 mark, so you'll find out in two years. I hope everything works out for ya. :)

They made money off you because of the incentives Mazda gives back to them. I got a great deal like you on an MS6 Sport ($29k msrp - 2 year 24k mile lease $259 a month), and they made money off me because Mazda has to give them $2500 back. Even though they gave me well over KBB for my STI ($23000), the demand is so high that the car sells for full retail, but in my case the guy that works at dealership wanted my STI, and ended up buying it, possibly for $23000, even though it only cost me $29000 brand new. That's their profit, and they may have charged him more then $23000 to increase their profit. In these incentive situations, everyone wins, and if anyone loses, it's Mazda. These incentives must mean nothing to them because of the profit the 3 and 6 have given them. That's my guess. :)

Just hold onto it, the RX-8 will be a collectors car someday :evil_laug :uhh: :rollingla

Yeah, I can't wait to see those top of the line Imprezas and Lancers in that vintage collector status as well. I look forward to the day when my old 04 STI is sitting in a classic car showroom, being admired for it's utter beauty and refinement. :mdrmed: :doh: :evil_laug

I could not resist that Ike, just as you couldn't resist. ;)

Thing is, I don't see STI and Evo owners talking about how rare their cars are or when they will be collectors cars nearly as much as RX-8 owners.

The MS6 might become a collector after all the owners drive their cars off a cliff after they get tired of the weak ass Mazda tuning ;)

This engine recall and the video about the customer service surveys must have really had an effect. I traded mine a month or so ago, and I got $19,000 for an '04 GT with 21K miles. If you are getting offered $20,000 for an '05 Shinka with only 12K miles, then that is a big difference. I feel for you, and I am sooooo glad I got out from under mine.

You got that right about the MS6. I'm not a defensive fanboi to my cars like some people become. ;) However, if you look at the car from a non enthusiast standpoint and realize you can buy one for $22k, that weak ass tuning doesn't mean a whole lot when looking for a nice affordable. luxurious, fully loaded daily driver that looks nice. The STI is not $9k faster then the MS6, let alone even 5k better looking to those who objectively look at cars with their eyes totally and impartially open. I understand that you are incapable of that, as are most, so I won't try. ;)

I can speak for STi owners, not Evo owners. They have talked about the rarity of their car on the iwsti forums, and it possibly being a collector some day. However, the STI guys shut the fanbois down and point out to them that it's still a 4 door Impreza with lots of modifictions, and it's only real place in history will be from an affordable modified enthusiast standpoint, not a collector car standpoint. The RX8, although unlikely due to the mass production, has a much better shot at being a collectible because it's an original built sports car, and in the mass of population think it looks 10 times nicer both inside and out, placed more time in refinement and good looks, along with a unique engine, even if the car is failing in the market. Even if you don't believe it can ever be a collectible, you gotta at least acknowledge that at least it has a realistic shot, as compared to modified versions of base economy cars. It's still an Impreza vs an RX8 when all is said and done, and in the eyes of collector status, it's not even close, even if the RX8 can't become one either. :)

The EVO might become a collector car if enough people become tired of trying spending massive amounts of money to keep the car reliable and long lasting mileage wise, or swap out that nasty interior. ;) A taste of your own medicine. Can you handle it? LOL :boink:

Ok, I dunno if anyone else answered this the same way I'm going to answer it because I don't feel like reading through the 4 pages of responses.

I was in the exact situation as you. Well, close. I had a 2 year lease and the whole time I was thinking I was probably going to buy this car. At the signing the dealer told me that I could probably bargain the buy out price, which was 21,5 (as written on my contract). Anyways, after a negative experience with the local Mazda dealer for service, I was doubting whether I should buy or not. But after driving the car some more, I decided I'd call them up and see how low they would go. Mazda American Credit told me to talk to my dealer. My dealer called me back and said the buy out was "24,700", then backtracked and said he'd call me back after I said I knew what the buy out price was already. (He never called me back).

Anyways, I talked to my dealer's financial department and they flat out told me there is no haggling whatsoever for buy outs. So I decided I wouldn't keep it. I mentioned this to the guy who closed out my lease and he said the dealers didn't do buy outs and that it was all up to Mazda American Credit. Who as I said before, said it was done by the dealer. So I have no idea what the truth of it is.

I welcome them to try selling an '04 RX-8 which is rated below average in reliability with a possible engine recall, that's been in an accident with 22,000 miles on it. Good luck. Especially with that dealer video going around too.

would you mind sharing how you got so much on a trade. where and what kind of a car you traded it for? hope you did not get ripped-off on the purchase price.

I bought my 2005 GT with 11.5K miles from a private seller for 19K. The local dealership offered him 19K initially and when he hesitated and came back later they offered 18K.

I appreciate all the advise guys.....it's sounds like this is a common situation. It looks like I am most likely going to have to ride out the lease unless something drastically changes in the secondary market for the RX8. It's not that I haven't been happy with the car......it's just that I hate the fact that it makes no sense for me to buy the car out of the lease. My plan from the begining was to lease for 3 years and if I had no major issues I would buy out the lease. Now it appears buying out my lease would cost more than the vehicle is worth which is a really bad decision. I am definitely going to try to negotiate a different buy-out price and see how MAC responds.......like someone else said, the worst they can do is say "no".

I didn't do anything special really. I went to a few regular dealers first and the first offer was 18K and a couple of months later it went down to 16.5K. Then I took it to CarMax and got $19K. I live in the Dallas, TX area. I drive alot for work, so I wanted something that got decent mileage and I wanted to downgrade my monthly payment. I ended up getting a Scion tC. I know lots of people will probably thumb their noses at a Scion, but I really like it. I would like to get some aftermarket wheels and some suspension upgrades, but other than that I think it is a good quality car and it doesn't really have any of the issues that the RX8 had. The sticker says 22 mpg but I am getting around 27 mpg city and I have yet to see what the mileage will be on the highway. I originally purchased my 04 RX8 in 05 as a leftover. Sticker price was just about 32K and it had rebates that brought it down to 26K.