TJRX8

Maybe where you live but around here they are letting serious perspective buyers test them. I drove it a couple times as well as the G35. No I haven't had the pleasure of driving the RX8 yet. That's why I am holding off on buying anything at this point. I think the RX8 may be the best of both (350Z and G35) and a little extra thrown in. The RX8 will be here in a few months and the dealers will still have Z's and G's, so no hurry.

Then we can all still have our own opinions, although a little more educated, and continue debating anyway.


PS: don't apologize to Honda they do have the S2000 :-)

chenpin

True, I agreed. All those things would make any forum better and i support objective, rational, and mature threads. But the truth is that you also cannot generalize about rx8forum.com. We have our share of objective, rational, mature members and threads.

my350z.com is far from a perfect forum (only a dream... :o) that you make it out to be. As you said, there are many many objective and rational threads on that forum, but there are also many ******** who do what we do here to the 350z. Statements like "rx-8 is one the ugliest cars" and "mazdas are japanese fords" can be found in many threads in response to rx-8 praise.

I agree with you that we shouldn't generalize, but rx8forum is not the only one guilty of that. I say get the car you will enjoy as YOU will be the one driving!

Hercules

That's fine, but you posted reviews from first, ePinions which is useless to get a good review, and the second I'd never heard of so I won't comment on that.

But in the magazines that matter, Car and Driver, Road and Track, CAR, Evo, Top Gear... they echo the same thing. And you can bet that the drivers in those magazines have LOTS of lap time, lots of driving school time, and lots of experience on judging it. I would make a decision based on Car and Driver's review over ePinions any day.

And besides, I've already posted something about this so let me repeat it here..

eccles

There's an interesting comment in the 350Z Long Term Test in the latest Road & Track (March 2003, pp104-106):

D'oh

Hello,

I saw this thread over at my350Z.com and I thought you might be interested in a couple things, although this specific thread may not be the best place for the info. You probably have others floating around with similar info, but I'm a lazy bastard so here it goes:

I was at Laguna Seca last thursday and friday for a Speed Ventures trackday, and Road & Track showed up with an RX-8 for a photoshoot.

The car drew a huge crowd, looked...interesting (I still can't get over the extra doors) and even went for some laps around the track.

I got to sit inside, and the front seats were very nice. The specific model had two-tone leather seats, very simlar to the Z's, but colored in red and black. The rear seats were made for two people, and had a permanent center console between them. I didn't mess around too much, because I didn't want to **** anyone off, but the interior of the car was very nice. I didn't like the layout of the controls as much as I like the layout in my Z, but the quality seemed to be there. One thing that dissapointed me a bit, was that there was very little legroom in the back seats (probably 4 inches). Now the front seats were back pretty far, to where I couldn't push the clutch all the way in, but I'm only 5' 10 or so, so I doubt there would be much more than 7 inches in the back seats. The rear seats were very well shaped though, so maybe the lack of legroom isn't too critical, since most of the leg will fit on the seat anyway. The trunk wasn't very large, but as a Z owner, who am I to complain about that. The Z's hatch is good for long, wide, but flat things, while the 8 seemed good for a big cube. I've found the Z's hatch to be very usable, but the 8's is probably a bit moreso. One other thing about the styling that was pretty cool, was the frequency with which Mazda used the "rotor" theme. From the holes in the front seat headrests, to the shape of the shift **** and steeering wheel, to the holes in the front and rear air damns, the Wankel Rotor was all over. I personally thought it was pretty cool.

The tires were 225/45-18 on the front and back, and were Bridgestone Potenza RE040's, the same as those that are standard on the Z (and which many Z owners complain about, although I have not had any specific problems with them).

The engine conpartment of the 8 was a bit dissapointing to me, since it was basically covered in plasitc, with the tiny rotary buried deep within. After seeing the very tight spaces in the Z's engine bay, it was a little nice to see some extra room, even if it was hidden by large peices of plastic shrouding (maybe some weight reduction potential, eh..hehe)

The 8 was going nuts around the track, but was not being timed, so I didn't get to have an idea on how it compared with the Z. It definitely sounded great, and I bet it will be slightly better balanced than the Z as well (although changing tires on either car could make the balance a non-issue).



Anyhow, to me, the 8 was really cool to see, and I think Mazda will do very well with it. I hope many, many of you buy one, so that Mazda will bring back the 7 and I can get one of those (I'm partial to two seaters).

Take care!

-D'oh!

Digisan

Quoting myself-

"I test drove a 350Z. It's very nice, but not for the 38K they were charging for it (track version). Oddly, I test drove an WRX and thought it was just as quick, and the handling was on par too. The suspension is nice on the 350Z, very little body roll, but it still pushed. The WRX pushed as well but seemed to be more stable, the AWD certainly helps. I tested them on tight mountain roads. Granted the WRX's interior isn't as nice, then again the price difference is 12K. As far as track performance, I think the RX-8 will win hands down. We'll find out in a few months or so.

Rob"

350Z is a nice car, just too expensive IMHO.

Sputnik

They have the NSX too. I suspected as much.

---jps

JTek_55

I currently have a Titanium RX-8 (Grand Touring) on order so I may be a little biased, but I test drove the 350Z twice and I have some opinions on it. Both runs were in a track model.

Let me start by saying, I LIKE THE 350Z ALOT. My wife and I had check book in hand, ready to order one. I decided not to after some thinking, and I will tell you why:

1)Price. The touring model of the 350 starts at $33,700.00. That is WITHOUT the DVD Nav. It is fair to compare this to the Grand Touring RX-8, because both packages come with Xenon headlamps, Bose stereo, and leather.The RX-8 Grand Touring WITH the DVD Nav tops out at $33,100. I personally did not get the DVD Nav so my RX-8 fully loaded was $31,100. So for starters the RX-8 was $2600 cheaper.

2)Functionality. I really like the Z, but I didn't like the idea of only two seats and (almost) no trunk area.

3)Interior. While I did like the quality and styling of the seats in the 350, I did not like some of the plastic buttons or the door panels.

5)Engine. The 350 was fast, but it seemed to vibrate substantialy when pushed to the limit. I have been told that there is almost no vibration in the RX-8.

Since I was only on a test drive, I did not get to ride hard into any corners so I cannot comment on the handling.

I was 1 pen slash away from ordering a 350Z and I stopped myself for those reasons. It may also interest all of you to know that I had not even looked into the RX-8 at the time when I test drove the 350.

TJRX8

They are only importing 12,000 G35 coupes a year. The RX8 is supposed to be in the 30,000 range. I'm still getting the 8 regardless, just wanted to correct you as it seems this thread is full of (among other things :-)

PS: I hope the 8 womps the Z as an all around car, that's what I am interested in.

Hercules

Two more seats, more attractive price/styling, better materials and handling that by all accounts is excellent.

Even if the Z makes it around the track faster (which I don't think will happen, but anyway), will you still be able to haul four people, two suitcases, and pay 5 grand less?

Don't think so.

b2k2000

Sheesh, you can haul 4 people, 2 suitcases in a 350z, it will just take 3 trips :D

TJRX8

Not sure why you quoted me??? This is exactly what I meant when I said "all around car".

Hercules

Just restating the obvious

droidekaus

Jesus H. Christ. I came here as a friendly observer a couple of months ago, but you REALLY need to lay off the Mazda Kool-Aid, man. You should stop while you're ahead in building the 8 into some kind of Super Car that it WILL NOT be. You're only setting yourself up for dissappointment if you insist on going down this road.

Why don't you wait until an actual test comes out before you continue to make this asinine sh*t up. I like the 8 and think it's a pretty cool car, but 350Zs everywhere will not hesitate for a minute to show anyone of you what REAL TORQUE at 2K RPM means on the street if you continue this delusional self-fluffing.

Puppy1

Save it for the track man!

Rotary Soul

absolutely amazing.
you know, it really doesn't matter if which car is faster on the track. trust me when i say that almost none of us are good enough drivers that it will matter in any significant amount. they're both good cars, and if you insist on arguing which car is better just know that for everyday driving, and even on the track, it will make almost no difference (unless you're a professional driver which i'm sure almost none of you are). I'm getting the 8, and i don't care if the z or the 8 is faster, cuz if you look at the big picture, it won't make a large difference.

droidekaus

You're obivously a rational owner-to-be, whereas Herc just drones on and on about how perfect the 8 will be and that it will be the ultimate car. He's delusional. Mazda WILL f**k something up and dissappoint quite a few of you. COUNT ON IT!

RedRotaryRocket

You know droidekaus, I also enjoy rational objectivity, so here's a little more for you...
And don't forget:


Here's the objectivity I promised: It seems to me that you are just as guilty of "self-fluffing". Talking about your big ol' superior *cough* torque. Boy, I'm impressed. Did you impress yourself when you said that? I see both you and Herc drinking big tall glasses of Nissan/Mazda kool-aid respectively, as you have put it.

That said, there is nothing wrong with drinking glasses of your favorite kool-aid. It's just like cheering on your favorite sports team: Your team may or may not be the best this year, but it doesn't keep you from wearing a big "we're number 1" foam finger, does it? Herc has decided that his team is Mazda, and he's got his foam finger on. And you have your Nissan finger on. Please continue your Z vs. RX discussion as there is nothing wrong with it, but putting Herc down for being fanatical is a bit hypocritic, don't you think?

tgd

Where do we sign up for the foam fingers???
:D

chenpin

Agreed! :D Remember we have a great car coming and its not wrong to be proud of it. But i dont think Herc is fanatical, he never said the car would outrun ferraris did he? Now if you think that he is fanatical just because he said the 8 will outrun or keep up with the Z, then you are being fanatical about the Z cuz it will not BLOW the 8 away. Maybe faster but not DESTROY

About the 8, I think Toadman put it best:

The Z, on the other hand, is a SPORTS car (not saying good or bad just stating a fact)

droidekaus

Actually, I have no brand loyalty. This is my first Nissan and while I'm not blown away by Nissan quality and their dealer network, the Z is alright until something better comes along. As far as my torque comments, it's a simple fact that torque = go = fun. Staying in fourth gear down to 1200 RPM is a relaxing way to commute. That's a function of the torque on tap that the Z has. Is that the only way to drive? Hell no. I also enjoy "momentum" driving my wife's Civic and revving the sh*t out of it, but how many times can you drop the clutch at 5K before something starts to go wrong? Ask the S2K guys. I can launch ALL DAY in the Z because I'm only revving to 2K, otherwise I'll smoke the tires. Again, that's torque.

I go out of my way to single out Herc because he always wants to take jabs at and compare the Z to the 8 when he shouldn't be comparing a two-seat sports car to a niche-busting RX-8.

Here's a gloomy prediction for the comparision tests... a well driven RSX-S will give an RX-8 fits.

chenpin

Now who is comparing a niche-busting RX-8 to a sports coupe?

Why you insist one putting down the 8. Yes, it is "niche-busting" but everyone at the "torque camp" puts down the 8 as something of an obese and torqueless S2000 == sub standard performance. Even if they dont say it directly, its often implied

The torque debate has been beaten to death on this forum. If you like "kick in the butt" driving then good for you but dont put the 8 down cuz you dont like "momentum driving" or whatever.

Again, as i've been repeating, this goes for us as well. We shouldn't be putting down the Z's weight and handling. Saying things like "Z is a porky wannabe car" will only make Z supporters mad. Compare all you like, just leave out the rhetoric

RedRotaryRocket

Fair enough...it just seemed to me you were being a little rough on Herc given your own recent statements, so I felt like posting. As long as we are all civil with each other, I support these comparison type threads as there can be a lot learned.

As for the torque thing, you'll notice I put a "*cough*" in my obviously sarcastic comment about the 350Z's torque curve being superior. Believe it or not, the quality of the RX-8's torque curve is about equal to that of the Z. I've actually looked at several 350Z torque curves (including a dyno run of your car posted on my350Z.com) and they are very similar. The only thing is, I can't seem to find a curve for the Z that goes below 2200 RPM or so. If you know where I could find one, I'd love to get a link. Anyway, torque and it's effect on acceleration is a much more subtle relationship than peak numbers and the RPM would suggest. Subsequently, the torque in the RX-8 is entirely different from that in an S2000. Indeed, press feedback from the Laguna Seca test day indicated that the best launch RPM on the RX-8 seemed to be around 3000 RPM, nothing like a clutch busting S2000...that's because the torque curve is much more like the Z. This can be further supported by the press estimates of a 6.0 or possibly less 0-60 time. Z's won't be running away from RX-8s too easily, and unless a well driven RSX-S gives a Z fits too, it won't bother the 8 much.

I am really serious about the Z torque curve. If you know where I can find one that shows the curve well below 2000 RPM, let me know.

Hercules

Thanks droidekaus, for the compliments.

Thus far I'm excited about the car because it's met every expectation I've had. I didn't expect to see a rip-roaring fast car like the 350Z, and I never said that the RX-8 would keep up in a straight line. In fact in another thread I mentioned the fact that even if the Z made better track times consistently than the RX-8, it still lacks two rear seats and a useable trunk.

As per your comments, it's obvious you are a 'racer boi'. The reason you have the Z is because it's eye catching, and so you can race at stoplights against your moron friends. Good for you. I've no interest in that and if it came down to it, you'd definately beat me at your stoplight racing.

As per Mazda ******* up, I have my doubts as well. Look at the Mazda6, delivered perfectly as it should be. While I don't want that car, it is a compliment to Mazda's design and production team to make sure everything came out the way it was planned; I expect no less from the RX-8. In fact Mazda knows it too, and they can't mess up if they want to stay competitive.

If you REALLY want to talk about comparisons, I'll make a judgment right now... the next RX-7 will BLOW AWAY the 350Z. And provided the price is right... the Z and RX-7 should be spot on.

I like the 350Z, its shape has grown on me over some time, and after driving it a few times (my friend is a Nissan dealer). It's got loads of power, and great seats but does have quite a bit of understeer. The interior looks good in pictures but up close doesn't cut it.

And like I said, it doesn't have back seats. I'm not making the RX-8 into a supercar; I just said that when it comes to a TRACK (something you have obviously no clue about, because I don't know WHEN you will hit 2k RPMs..), the RX-8 will stay competitive with the Z, and for me that's more than good. I still have saved a chunk of change over the Z, gotten a much more innovative car (and nobody can deny that, just due to the rotary), and something that suits my personal needs.

Honestly if I was looking at a two seaters in the 35k price range I would not get the 350Z, but instead get the BMW 330Ci. In fact it was the car I was looking at before the RX-8 came around. The 350Z will probably never make my list, because for the money I'd much rather get something else that doesn't compromise in the areas I like -- build quality and handling. The RX-8s main compromise as far as I can see is power, and that's something I'm not as bothered with.

b2k2000

Sorry you are so dilusional droid, were you the one talking all the crap about how the supra and 300z and 3kgt were going to walk all over the 7? They all had massive amnts of "torque" (not to mention almost 70 more hp) compared to the 7, and when it came down to who was faster, I don't thnk anyone of them had this clear advantage over the torqueless rotary! Yes torgue=go=fun, and you need alot of torque to get that pig moving (yes i have driven one so don't start that). The 8 on the other hand weighs significantly less (like the 7 did) so it does not require all this torque you speak of to =go=fun. Have you seen the slolam and skidpad results of the stock 7? They dust, trounce, kick the *&^% out of the numbers of the 350! So I can assume, since there is visual evidence of this, that the 8 will have far superior numbers to the 350 since they are probably going to be better than the 7's were.