Endor

Another trick question, there is no Pizza Bob's uptown.

And did you know my name is also Jake?

The mystery deepens...

kartweb

No Pizza Bob's Uptown anymore?

What about the Whiz Kids?

Brownsville Station?

The Arb?

Psychedelic Rangers?

Geez has the best of Ann Arbor moved to Ypsi?

Endor

You are saying strange words which I do not entirely understand.

Whiz Kids: Status Unknown.

Brownsville Station: Status Unknown.

The Arb: Real Estate. Status Unchanged.

Psychadelic Rangers: Status Unknown.

Ypsilanti: Still *****.

kartweb

OK that was all about 30-35 years ago.

Every other Sunday there were free concerts through the summer at the Arb. One of the local bands was the Whiz Kids. A two man band looked like the Winters Brothers - one played drums, more then drums then Nick Mason (Pink Floyd) ever even attempted to play. The other played either Alto or Tenor Sax in one hand and keyboards with the other. Hammond B3 Organ with bass pedals, a Mellotron to his right, an ARP 2600 synthesizer to his left - $40,000 worth of keybords in 1973 US Dollars. They were absolutely fantastic. Bob Segar, Ted Nugeunt Brownsville Station (Smokin in the Boys Room one hit wonders) came out now & then, but none of them could touch the Whiz Kids. Other bands who showed up over the years included Black Sabbath, Bachman Turner Overdrive, Black Oak Arkansas, James Gang, and a few others I can't recall.

Pizza Bob's was a small pizzaria with about 6 tables. Pizza Bob's Uptown was about a block up the "hill" also had about 6 tables.

Psychadelic Rangers were the volunteer "police" at the concerts. Mostly hippies with badges. OK T-shirts that had a picture of a badge.

Shakey Jake was well, Shakey Jake. He was a little youger back then although he probably didn't look any younger.

Ann Arbor was a party-down town. I think it was the only city in the world with a direct daily flight in from Afghanistan. In 1977 I moved to Carolina and haven't been back since. But at the time I lived off Hwy 23 about 40 miles south of Ann Arbor.

V Vette

iTrader: (-1)

Yeah..C4's killed your kidneys and rode like a mack truck.. As far as the seats, LOL, you could barely see out of the windshield, IF the hood didnt block your view...

kartweb

They do ride a bit stiff, not quite kidney killers except for the weak. My 5'2" wife couldn't see the end of the hood, at 6' I never had any problems with visibility.

Back to resale value, the typical C4 has increased in value about 14% in the last year. In part due to the release of the C6. New releases usually decrease the value of previous release and increase the value of the second previous release.

For that matter my C2 has nearly quadupled in value over the last 20 years. I'll be selling that in the spring. I bought it for investment and the occasional show. It drives like crap, is way overpowered for the suspension. It's time to build a 21st century hot rod anyway. My next hot rod project will be based on a Porsche 928. Not sure about what motor, probably a small block chevy although a 3 rotor Cosmos with a blower might be the ticket.

The best advertising travels word of mouth. I think some of the reasons why RX8 values plummet so fast is that many of the owners don't offer the praise the car truely deserves. The focal point to most owners seems to be "it's a rotary" which to 95% of the potential buyers is more of a novelty then a practical component. The motor does offer low mass which is the main reason the car is perfectly balanced. Given proper maintenance and lack of abuse the motor has far less maintenance over 200,000 miles then pistons do. Not that many put 200,000 miles on their cars. Few of the owners seem to really appreciate the best part of what the RX8 offers; The chassis. Again the rotary makes part of that possible although the turbo 4 with a rear mounted transaxle would accomplish the same level of balance. It's comfortable, handles on rails, adequate seating for a typical family, and did I mention fun to drive? Despite the fuel economy it's still more cost effective to operate over 100,000 miles then anything in the sports coupe class - and certainly more fun to drive then any sports coupe since it's more of a sports car in that respect.

I've been tracking prices on eBay for about a dozen different types of cars over the last few years and occasionally checking on what the seller actually gets for them. I knew of the resale issue up front which is part of what scared me away from an RX8 - until the "fire sales" last spring. New car buyers and used car buyers tend to fit in a little different catagory regarding market choice.

There is definately an enthusiasm factor missing among the 8 side of the Zoom-Zoom crowd.

lucifuge

If the Rx8 resale values are lower than expected, it would have a hell of a lot to do with (i) fuel economy and (ii) engine recalls. Sure the Rx8 is a great car, but these negatives are crushing when there are so many alternative cars to choose from.
What might help the Rx8 down the track is if Mazda stops producing them now AND they are shown to be reliable in the ongoing future. THEN they will be a highly sought after and the value for their age may actually increase as they will be a proven reliable sports car with cult status.

tmak26b

It's a sports car, all the ricers in 10 years will buy them and drive the price back up

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

^ So what you're saying is... Current rx7 owners are ricers eh?

KimiFelipe

Who gives a rats about resale? I'm gonna drive mine as long as I can!! I'm just hoping that I don't have to make use of that warranty.

sigh.

I hope you're right about proper maintenance and lack of abuse. If this is all you need to get good reliability then I should be in good shape.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

More like which market are they selling it to.

Rest of the world = typical resale price

America = bad bad bad resale value

Why ? Cuz what most ppl in NA market would do when they're shopping for a car. Oh this one has 300 hp and 280TQ, the other only has only 250 hp and 255TQ, Im buying the first one for sure !

Know what I mean ?

RXSeven1

you dont have a clue. bye bye.

m477

+1

If there's anyone out there that still doesn't get this, go to your local RX-7 shop and ask them to show you the cars that are in for rebuild and ask them *why* they need a rebuild.

volk

is it possible to get the corgi sitting in the chair, wearing the bowler hat crammed into the mailbox?

Diesel Power

Obviously you have your opinion on the C4 Vette and I have mine. My opinion lead me to owning two RX7's. I currently own a 95 RX7 that has been significantly modified (and still has the original motor). Even stock I would walk away from any C4 Vette in terms of handling and acceleration. I used to work with a guy who owned a C4 who would talk trash about my RX7 almost daily. He stopped talking trash after he got his *** handed to him. The C4 was a piece of junk. Even the C5 that I drove was not much better.

As for tinkering, why do people want to make their cars faster? Aren't they fast enough from the factory? It has got nothing to do with whether it was fast enough right from the beginning. If you don't get why people like to make their cars faster then I suggest you attend SEMA once.

Once again it is your opinion in stating that the C4 rides better, handles better, etc. Once again, I can pull out some really old magazines that state something else. Maybe while I'm at it I can find a nice photo of my wife.

RX26b

Yeah, that's the only time I've read or heard someone saying the C4 betters the 3rd gen 7 in anything, not including the blindly devoted Vette freaks out there; and I'd imagine that even they are not so delusional as to think that piece of crap comes close to the exotic-performing 7. He's obviously under the influence of illegal substances. Oh yeah, the C4 had the rigidity of a beat up cardboard box .

kartweb

Certainly are some emotions attached to the RX8.

The whole point of the thread was pertaining to the drop in resale value of the RX8. Blathering emotions aren't correcting that trend.

The C4 was brought up as a benchmark. Like it, hate it, no matter the fact is it's got a better track record on resale the the RX7 both of which are far better then the RX8.

Regarding drag racing the C4 and RX7 turbo, the RX doesn't stand a chance. Even the automatic 300HP C4 out runs the MT RX7 turbo on the 1/4 mile.

As far as handling the C4 has a higher slalom speed, better braking, and better driver feedback. The C4 also has a stiffer ride. The tires on an RX7 look like a spacesaver spare for a C4. Rather then make the hot rodders go buy stiffer ARB's springs and shocks, GM put them in standard. Just short of teeth rattling where the RX7 is supple. But people don't buy a 12 year old vette or RX7 for supple ride qualities.

I'm not suggesting for a second that anyone sell their RX and buy a C4. Just pointing out some of the possible reasons why a C4 has better resale vaules. Some people may want to argue those facts, thats not going to change those facts.

It's been interesting to see the responses overall. It leads me to believe that if Mazda wants to sell more RX8's they will have to do something different. My bet is they probably will.

tmak26b

Huh, since when are C4s faster than TT RX-7? In a straight line maybe, not on the track or autox.

Read the older R&T all sports car battle from late 91. The RX-7 was up there with 911 Turbo, even beating the NSX.

The only fast C4s are the LT1

RX26b

Its suspension is set up stiffer to compensate for its lack of rigidity. Ride quality is truck-like and creaks over every bump.

Amazing that with the 7's "spare tires" it's able to blow the competition into the weeds...
http://www.fd3s.net/magazine_article...article02.html

As you say, facts are facts.

Edit: Fixed link

Winfree

My little ugly as a wart 1993 323 was purchased for 6K - I love it, and still drive it, and I was offered 6K as a trade in or direct sale.... Value dropped, returned, held steady (and it gets great milage)

The Blue RX-8 is a show stopper. Little kids come up to admire it and the Car Wash Gangsters love it. I will hold onto to this one - with its spoiler and wind skirt and moon roof - it will represent the peak of the style for our time - This is a keeper - just wish I had one extra to wrap in plastic and save like a fine wine to decant 20 years from now! I remember an old yellow muscle Cad or Buick that has a million dollar resale...

And what keeps the value of RX-8 resales down? RX-8 owners who are just negative enough to talk thousands of dollars off the worth of their own cars...Why is resale down - just look in the side mirror!

Razz1

^^^ yep talk keeps the value down

captain mercury

rx-8 lol

kartweb

Actually the suspension is set up stiff because the engineers knew thats what their customers wanted. Otherwise they would have sprung it softly. Yes the ride is stiff. I've said that several times. Seems to be plenty of money made from RX7 owners to attain that same quality of ride too.....

You missed the point about the tires. Between the rigid ride and the ultra wide tires is why the 93 C4 has a grip level greater then 1.0 G's out of the factory. The 93 RX7 rated .9 G's.

As far as AutoX goes, look over the lap times a little closer. There isn't enough difference from one club to another to say either one is faster. (If you want something thats a lot faster at a solo buy a shifter kart.)

Here's a good place to compare a few solo times;
http://www.autocross.com/texasregion/

Again, the only reason I brought up the C4 was as a benchmark on resale value.

RX26b

I don't have the statistical evidence in front of me, but wasn't the 3rd gen 7 national champion in autocross throughout most of the 90s and into '01, until the Z06 dethroned it?

By the way, I fixed the link in my previous post which clearly shows the Vette can't run with the 7 in any performance parameter. Can't argue with Danny Sullivan's times, right?

Also, if my memory serves correctly, Sports Car International (circa '94 ish) printed that (then) the most accurate road test measuring equipment owned by an American publication was Car & Driver's. Well, if you flip back to their issues back then, you'll see in the Road Test Summary that only 2 production cars were able to pull numbers of .99G; one was the F40, the other was none other than the RX-7.

kartweb

You sir just hit the nail on the head.

It's all about supply and demand. The examples I used of the RX7 and C4 were important since the supply is limited they don't make them anymore.

The demand side is a little different. A major factor in demand comes from how the owner influenes others.

The RX8 has an asthetically pleasing style - to a point where others like Chrysler have began to copy the lines. We'll see more copies to follow too.

The interior is very practical to the cross section of potential buyers. Many of which have kids. Some of which are kids so the extra doors help on insurance costs.

Handling is exceptional yet ride is supple. I almost fell out of my chair laughing when one poster mentioned the RX7 was better handling - obviously they've never driven both or have no real performance driving skills. (Lift off the throttle of a 7 on a freeway cloverleaf when pushing it to 95% - then try it with an 8. For a bonus point tell us what characteristic that is, and for 2 points tell us what changes to suspension geometry correct that condition...)

Performance is acceptable, even good, not great. OK it could be better but what about where the rotary shines? Smooth steady almost effortless from 4000-9000 RPM. It just feels special. Owners say cool it's a rotary, but I think thats just for the sake of being different. Rarely do you hear them praise the qualities of a rotary. In fact more often then not they bitch that they need a turbo.

Economy is good not great. So long as the car is beaten and neglected it will roll for at least 100,000 miles...at lest about 99% of them do. 1% motor failure is high but Mazda has that covered. Big deal. 20 MPG on the highway doesn't sound all that good but think about it; over 10000 miles thats 500 gallons of gas. 25 MPG is 400 gallons. If premo is $2.50 a gallon thats $250. Doesn't sound like a big deal there now does it?

When people speak highly of the car they make others want one. Influence enough others and the demand rises. You won't see a national TV ad for a C4, 300Z or an RX7 yet they have decent resales. Thats due to how the owners speak of them.

Me, I'm very pleased with mine, and I'll hang onto it for at least 100,000 miles. At that point i won't really care about resale. Good thing too since most current owners just don't seem to really believe in the car they own.

I'm surprised; I figure folks would have been sidetracked on this thread for weeks and never figured it out.