Squidward

Folks, doing a little research isn't that hard...

Renault owns a controlling stake in Nissan (36.8%), therefore, for all intents and purposes, Nissan becomes part of Renault's resource pool.

Likewise can be said about Ford, who owns the controlling stake in Mazda, 33.4% to be exact.

taken from:
http://www.autocluster.com/autobrands/index.html#N

m477

The RX-8 was designed in Japan, engineered in Japan, and is built in Japan.

The 350Z on the other hand was designed in America by a guy who drove an Audi TT (Ajay Panchal)... 'nuff said.

visitor

rx8 wouldn't be here if it wasn't for ford. i highly doubt mazda would have made it through had ford not stepped in helped them out financially. what good is talent if not given the possibility?

RX8Z

I dont understand all this debate. everyting said, doesnt mean anyting because fact is fact..

Rx8 is here. done

Rx8 is built in Japan, delivered from Japan made by Mazda factories. done

Other than that, nothing said above can be proven.

Misc. arguments.. yes an Rx8 is surrounded by plastic, but come on man. be real, shape and form and design , creates an atmosphere of substance. Touch the buttons, feel the panels, move the parts around.. and you clearly can see that Nissan did a half *** job on the Z, of course you own the car so naturally you will be defensive but dont be. I love the Z, all im saying is that Nissan shouldve done a better job on the inside.. but come to think about it.. Nissan has always seen their line as avergae, and only did a better than most job on the Infiniti's..

Have you ever sat inside an Accord ? You will see a whole new world and feel a much better quality inside and out.

Anyways, last debate.. who controls who. Let it be known guys that 33 % does not fully entitle you to full control of a company. I used to be a stock broker, and lets just say.. this are just numbers that both these manufacters came up with , assuming fair control and profit. If Renault really owned Nissan, they wouldnt call it an ALLIANCE. Also let it be known that Nissan controls 13.6% stake in Renault, not as much but Renault obviously isnt as large as Nissan...

As for Chrysler, I dont even want to touch that.. Chrysler has deals with BMW, Renault, Peugot, Ford, Madza, Mitsu.. and on and on..

Japan8

Um foot in mouth disease... the Chrysler Crossfire is built on a Benz platform (CLK or SLK) and power by a Mercedes engine and transmission.

There is word that Ford will be using Mazda's small car plaform as the base for it's next gen small cars.

The radio system used in the 3, 6 and 8... where did it begin? The Ford Taurus, Focus... see pics of the 2005 Mustang... the stereo in it is exactly like the Mazda units... fully integrated.

Don't be naive... it only starts out as owned. For efficiency, cost savings... platforms are co-developed and shared. Certain parts bins are shared across... Ford group will never end up as bad a GM cars.. just rebadged POS, but there will definitely be some sharing... Jaguar S-type/ Lincoln LS... Lincoln LS, Ford Thunderbird, Ford Mustang...

Guess who the head of Mazda is? A Ford Exec sent over to Hiroshima to run things... as was the last guy as well.

You tell me now... how little does Ford have to do with Mazda?

Japan8

Let me ask this first... how many "books" does accounting in Japan have? Got any idea?

Just because you were a stock broker in America means a total of Jack and **** about business in Japan. The laws, rules and practices are entirely different... and learning them as an outsider that doesn't speak Japanese is nearly impossible. Good thing I speak Japanese then, eh?

In Japan owning in excess of 26%, I believe, qualifies as controlling interest. What ever the exact figure, it's less than 34%... So it doesn't matter if Renault gave Nissan a little bit of its stock... likely done because of stock valuation and price flux, not because it's a real alliance... the truth of the matter is as far as Japan and the Japanese are concerned Renault bought controlling interest of Nissan.

Renault's use of the term alliance... more than willing to be it's Renault trying to distance themselves from being seen as really taking over Nissan... they want it to see 100% Japanese still... better for sales.

Japan8

Precisely the point of my previous posts. A Mazda is not a rebadged Ford (for most models, and especially the 8)... however the sharing of some technology and parts does occur and Ford does run Mazda's show....

Japan8

Because they're driving the king of POS... Renault? :D

Japan8

Who fed you that load of ****?

Let me tell you what the American news doesn't tell you...

Nissan was in worse than red ink... they was effectively bankrupt. At the last minute they tried cutting some labor force, but too little too late... they couldn't make their loan payment. That means bankrupt. They were OFFICIALLY... not secretly... officially looking for a buyer... GM has Mitsubishi and Ford, Mazda...so neither was interested. If I remember correctly DalmierChysler was approached, but turned them down. So crappy *** Renault stepped up to the plate and took one for the team. They put Gon in as President and kicked out a bunch of the old Japanese crew (they were worthless anyway). he closed factories (like Murayama, Saitama) and cut the labor force down a significant amount... got the company out of the red. He then got the company remaking its whole model line.. and here we are now. Unfortunately nearly every car they make JDM is butt ugly... the 350Z is borderline in my book. I'd take a G35 coupe instead.

And that is basically what happened.

Japan8

Ford owns Jag... another Mazda-type deal.

The Ford GT... what about it? It looks a lot like it's predecessor.

As much as there is sharing, influence and control...the RX-8 in overal design, platform and soul is all Mazda. No question.

ChrisW

More than that, I believe the 350Z's engine is basically a Renault design (albeit probably modified a fair bit).

Pirate Rex

Why all the Ford bashing? As a lifelong owner of all things Mustang, I am getting slightly annoyed. Not everything out of Ford is a POS. Not everything out of Mazda is an engineering marvel.

Stop bashing the Blue oval. Without Ford's part ownership, Mazda (and the RX-8) would not be here today.

KaribOS

the Mazda 6 also uses the Duratec engine block and is built in the US....

so I guess that makes 3 current production models that are built buy Ford plants.

My 626, the MX-6 and the Ford Probe are US-built clones. I do not believe the "A Mazda is Ford" coments are Mazda-bashing, as much as they are statements concerning a business relationship that has been around long enough that a Mazda owner ought to get used to it by now.

Why get upset about it?

Japan8

Thank you Pirate Rex...

I'm a long time Mustang fan and owner. I do admit that Ford can't make a decent 4 cylinder engine and the Taurus is butt ugly... but the Mustang and Ford trucks are something that Ford does right.

Mazda had its share of crap too... as every automaker has (some... like Renault and Chrysler... more than others).

I think everyone here knows and admits that the RX-8 is hardly a "Ford." So what need is there for more bashing of Ford?

Gord96BRG

I guess the above is a good example of why you used to be a stock broker - you have not got a clue about what you're talking about! Under Japanese law, owning more than 1/3 of the issued shares in a company gives full controlling interest. Ford owns 33.4% of Mazda, and therefore has full controlling interest. I don't know what that gibberish about "just numbers they came up with", as it has nothing to do with profit. Ford's controlling interest is why they control the Mazda board of directors, and why the previous 3 CEOs of Mazda were Americans from Ford. As noted, without Ford taking control in 1996, there would be no Mazda today, period.

Everyone, thank Ford for rescuing Mazda and making the RX-8 possible - and also make no mistake, Ford could have killed the RX-8 at any time that they wanted - if Ford had not been involved and approved of it, it wouldn't exist. Is that simple enough for the Ford haters to understand and maybe back off?

Regards,
Gordon

murix

I might have been a bit hard on Ford, but I just wish Ford NA would bring over the cars they sell in Europe which are great cars. Things like the Mondeo ST220, Puma, and Focus RS. These have all proven to be best in class so why try and reinvent the wheel?

Gord96BRG

They tried - the Mondeo in it's prior generation was sold here as the Contour/Mystique. While it was very well received in Europe, it didn't sell all that well here in North America. Our SVT Contour was the Mondeo ST200. When the Mondeo was redesigned, Ford NA decided to convert the Kansas City factory to more profitable Escape SUV production. So, the reason we don't get the Mondeo ST220 is because North Americans basically didn't want to buy a quality compact sedan and preferred SUVs. Puma, too small for North America, Focus RS, too expensive when people start talking about HP numbers per $. North Americans are unique that way, in their focus on HP almost to the exclusion of all other performance considerations - look at the controversy in our own forum over the missing 9 hp! What's proven to be tops in sales in North America are SUVs like Explorers and bigger; they'd sell terribly in Europe. Different markets, and different market demands. Unfortunately for car enthusiasts, we live on the wrong continent.

Regards,
Gordon

Japan8

Hey, even the people that like Ford have been saying that for awhile now. Before the Focus... the Cosworth RS Escort... same basic concept... AWD 225hp, and ouch was it quick.

As for the Mondeo.... as Gordon mentioned, they had brought it over, however, the American market didn't know a good thing when it was biting them in the ***. I got a test drive of one of these from a sales person I knew. She took myself and a friend over to a huge empty stadium parking lot and let us work it over. Bang for the buck... I'd have traded my 'Stang for a Contour SVT in 1999... too bad I came to Japan instead.

JaxFL_RX8

Who cares who is the parent company?

No one would ever declare the 8 a Ford, unless they're baiting you. Or unless they're blind and you honk your horn. That horn is ALL Ford. WHY, oh WHY?!?!

RX8Z

Wow guys, what do you guys do for a profession? Now suddenly you are all expert corporate analyst?

Im not even going to argue with some of you's because we are going beyond issues that neither of us can prove, except for what you read of course

As a matter of fact, I was a good f*cking broker till 9/11 when half my coworkers died, so dont even touch that topic. Im not here to insult you guys, so dont insult me.

Bottom line is, I am well aware of Renaults position in Nissan, but truthfully what it comes down to is regional offices. Theres Nissan of America, Nissan of Japan, Nissan of Europe and so forth.. Each region has its own line of management, all that make individual decisions based on factors like market, economy, etc..

Dont f*cking come on here and start throwing figures that you guys searched on google, and now suddenly you know exactly what these guys are going to do.

Japan8, I agree with you, Japanese laws are different, and they are not run the same way as here, but whats your pt? You work for Nissan of Japan and now you know everything right.. or you're japanese so your an expert of course.

Listen again, Im not here to fight about this. You won, ure the experts wuteva..

All Im saying is that Madza Rx8 is not a FORD (nothing against Ford..)

can we at least agree on that, and stick to the subject? thanks ..

murix

And if it was a Ford I would still buy it. I could care less who makes what car as long as it is a good car.

Die thread die! :D

dag

Bravo!!!

RX8Z

Stockshares have nothing to do with profit? Thats right, Madza just had 33% of their shares just laying around waiting for someone to come by and buy it. But of course those figures just magically appeared, and Ford came in on the right time. WoW lucky them. Please, no argument.. your right about the 1/3 law but please can we please stop making assumptions about whos really controlling who, of course unless you know the CEO personall.. then share with us his thoughts..

As Ive said before, having control of a company doesnt make the company alike your others.. Madza is run seperately just like Ford is run seperately..

Have a good day guys

Japan8

Not to drag this thread longer, but...

what makes you more knowledgable than us? You got a little bit of a blackened eye because you came out swinging at Ford and stated some inaccurate information. Being a former stockbroker...good or bad, and now working for a dealer doesn't make you an expert in any way. Perhaps you have also worked in corporate at one of the auto makers or have family that does....but none of us here know, so we can only go by what we know or Google.

RX8Z

I never said I was, you did .

Working for a dealer gives me a little more access than you would, being we have inside information and access to HQ but yes I know, you knew that already.

Anyways, no argument and uh who was swinging at Ford?

Rx8 is a not a Ford, is that comment not true?? It is not made by Ford plants, nor designed or engineered by Ford corp.

What more do you want? Or do you just want to argue more ... ?? I have nothing against Ford, I just made a clear statement saying that just because a manufacters "owns" another, doesnt necessarily make it the same car/quality shape or form..

Lets just call this truce.. have a good one my friend