RX8 might be great, but how about the dealers?
07-22-2002, 01:59 PM
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RX8 might be great, but how about the dealers?
I live in the Bay Area and I've noticed from going into the different dealerships, that I get a weird vibe.
They have real clueless look on their faces when anything regarding the RX8 gets brought up. The dealerships look really small too.
The dealers don't seem to be really enthusiastic. Moreso, they just look like they don't want to be bothered.
I know the car is going to be killer, but if I get that kind of support from the dealers and even the service departments, it's not going to be a pretty long uncomfortable relationship.
They have real clueless look on their faces when anything regarding the RX8 gets brought up. The dealerships look really small too.
The dealers don't seem to be really enthusiastic. Moreso, they just look like they don't want to be bothered.
I know the car is going to be killer, but if I get that kind of support from the dealers and even the service departments, it's not going to be a pretty long uncomfortable relationship.
07-22-2002, 02:19 PM
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clueless
its true the dealers seem clueless! they also don't seem to might being that way. all the info i have on the rx8 i found thru research on my own or the research done by people on this forum or else- where on the net. it seems like like they are uninterested and they'll just wait for mazda to send them info.
07-22-2002, 02:24 PM
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From what I've read on the Miata forums, it seems like most people aren't too pleased with the Mazda dealers in the immediate area. BTW, this is the sales dept that I'm talking about, not the service depts. They're separate entities, so I wouldn't necessarily assume that a dealer with a lousy sales dept will have a lousy service dept.
There aren't that many dealers in the area, so my main concern is actually finding one that doesn't do the standard "market rate adjustment" on all new cars. Luckily, I'm willing to drive out of the bay area to find a decent deal.
There aren't that many dealers in the area, so my main concern is actually finding one that doesn't do the standard "market rate adjustment" on all new cars. Luckily, I'm willing to drive out of the bay area to find a decent deal.
07-22-2002, 02:26 PM
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::very bitter about dealers... like the cars though::
Personally whenever I go to a dealer to try to find out info it seems that i know more about the car than they do. Most of them seem to try to play things off as if things didn't even exist and try to make me look dumb
07-22-2002, 02:56 PM
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i guess im lucky, i have a great dearship that i bought my MP3 at. i was lucky and got mine at MSRP when some people were paying up to 5000 more. when ever i was asking them about the Mazdaspeed protege they would tell me what they know and what they have heard and then tell me that its just a RUMOR unlike mose dealerships that say it like its fact. ive also never had a problem with the service department. all the guys at the dealership know me and are real nice. If you live in or around missourri a good dealership is Blue Ridge Mazda in Raytown. excellent dealership.
07-22-2002, 03:19 PM
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when i was at the dealer putting my deposit down it didn't seem to be just the rx8 either. while i was there i was kind of chit chatting with the salespeople about the whole line up, protege5, mpv, miata and mazda6 also. i just didn't get the feeling they cared a whole lot about any of them. one of them did say he thought the protoge5 could out handle the miata, which i find hard to beleive, and one of them made a big deal about how the side door windows in the mpv rolled down. both of them! wow! and they wouldn't even speculate on when the mazda6 was launching let alone the rx8.
07-22-2002, 04:04 PM
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Good Dealers should be rewarded, bad dealers should be punished
We can reward the good and punish the bad with our wallets. I've noticed similar things but I don't think it's exclusive to Mazda dealerships. There are goof-***** everywhere for every make who are there just for the check (and sometimes to give out a screw job to the unsuspecting or uninformed).
These observation are what caused me to post this in the suggestions forum last week:
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=358
My idea has yet to get a lot of support, but I imagine it's because no one ever visits the suggestions forum. If you think it's a good idea, say so and then maybe the Admin. will put it in. I think it could be a valuable resource as time goes on and give lots of prospective owners the incentive to join our forum.
As for my local dealer, they make waaaaaay more money off of Ford trucks than they'll ever make off the RX-8 so obviously it's not their top priority. I'd like to hear what others have to say about their dealers, because I, like Pork Chop, am willing to drive around to get decent service.
These observation are what caused me to post this in the suggestions forum last week:
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=358
My idea has yet to get a lot of support, but I imagine it's because no one ever visits the suggestions forum. If you think it's a good idea, say so and then maybe the Admin. will put it in. I think it could be a valuable resource as time goes on and give lots of prospective owners the incentive to join our forum.
As for my local dealer, they make waaaaaay more money off of Ford trucks than they'll ever make off the RX-8 so obviously it's not their top priority. I'd like to hear what others have to say about their dealers, because I, like Pork Chop, am willing to drive around to get decent service.
07-22-2002, 07:34 PM
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Re: Good Dealers should be rewarded, bad dealers should be punished
A few things-
First, Mazda dealers have not rated well in customer service. I believe the last J.D. Power and associates ranked Mazda dealers as below average, but they don't rank the lower half.
Second, while the idea of posting good and bad dealer experiences may be good, you've got to be very careful. It may be an urban legend, but I've heard that people have been sued over telling horror stories about companies online. Even if it's not true, you'd want to be very careful to avoid slander laws to avoid making the urban legend true!
First, Mazda dealers have not rated well in customer service. I believe the last J.D. Power and associates ranked Mazda dealers as below average, but they don't rank the lower half.
Second, while the idea of posting good and bad dealer experiences may be good, you've got to be very careful. It may be an urban legend, but I've heard that people have been sued over telling horror stories about companies online. Even if it's not true, you'd want to be very careful to avoid slander laws to avoid making the urban legend true!
Last edited by Rich; 07-22-2002 at 07:40 PM.
07-23-2002, 09:17 AM
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More than Urban Legend
I beleive this very thing occurred to a poster on the VW Vortex forum. There was a very lengthy thread detailing this person's ordeal with an Atlanta area VW dealer. This resulted in a lawsuit by the dealer.
There was even a link to an article from the Atlanta newspaper detailing how the dealer in question brought a lawsuit not only against the poster, but also the company and individuals running the website.
There was even a link to an article from the Atlanta newspaper detailing how the dealer in question brought a lawsuit not only against the poster, but also the company and individuals running the website.
07-23-2002, 11:34 AM
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Not an urban legend.
The VW case was eventually dropped. I posted a little more on this in this thread: http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=358
As for slander, there was another case I read about, but it didn't involve a dealer. Someone had a webpage badmouthing Chevrolet/GM, since they had sold him 2 lemon Impalas (I'm wondering why he bought a second Impala after the first one was ruled a lemon). GM decided to sue him for slander. I'm not sure what the outcome was.
The VW case was eventually dropped. I posted a little more on this in this thread: http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=358
As for slander, there was another case I read about, but it didn't involve a dealer. Someone had a webpage badmouthing Chevrolet/GM, since they had sold him 2 lemon Impalas (I'm wondering why he bought a second Impala after the first one was ruled a lemon). GM decided to sue him for slander. I'm not sure what the outcome was.
07-26-2002, 03:57 PM
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Uninterested Dealers
There's also a good chance the dealers may be playing dumb about a new vehicle that has not yet been released and that will not be released any time in the near future just because they figure maybe that way you'll buy something they have now. After all, they are in the business to make money. Giving out information on a vehicle that they have no chance of making anything on for the next 9 months is something they see as not benefitting them much.
I understand that it comes across as seeming either ignorant or snobbish from a consumer point of view, but from the point of view of the salesman, they may not even be there when the car comes out, so a lot of them don't really care because it benefits them none. Most of them are in it for what they can make today.
I understand that it comes across as seeming either ignorant or snobbish from a consumer point of view, but from the point of view of the salesman, they may not even be there when the car comes out, so a lot of them don't really care because it benefits them none. Most of them are in it for what they can make today.
07-26-2002, 04:29 PM
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You are right Synergy, it is really not always in their best interest to throw us a bone on upcoming models. It might be in the dealers best interest, but not benefit that salesperson.
I got the clueless and uninterested act from one Subaru salesperson after a test drove a WRX and started popping questions about the STI. He was like "STI, huh, oh yeah, that's been rumored but, uh ummm, they sell'em in Japan, but uuh I don't think they'll ever come over here." I guess I can't blame him, since he wanted to put me in the car I just drove so he can put a little food on his table. There was another salesman at the same dealer who was more forthcoming, and he quoted all of the rumors that have been flying around on the internet for months. He made sure I understood they were just rumors, but at least he was honest with me.
This seems to be a more reliable (or at least faster) sorce of information anyway. The internet message boards always seem to be a month or two ahead of what the dealer knows anyway.
I got the clueless and uninterested act from one Subaru salesperson after a test drove a WRX and started popping questions about the STI. He was like "STI, huh, oh yeah, that's been rumored but, uh ummm, they sell'em in Japan, but uuh I don't think they'll ever come over here." I guess I can't blame him, since he wanted to put me in the car I just drove so he can put a little food on his table. There was another salesman at the same dealer who was more forthcoming, and he quoted all of the rumors that have been flying around on the internet for months. He made sure I understood they were just rumors, but at least he was honest with me.
This seems to be a more reliable (or at least faster) sorce of information anyway. The internet message boards always seem to be a month or two ahead of what the dealer knows anyway.
07-26-2002, 10:36 PM
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The Northstar Rotary Rockets to the rescue! :D I've always wanted to say that. :p
Since we already have a vendor feedback page that fits the format being discussed here, http://www.northstarrotaries.com/vendors/ , I decided to discuss this with out esteemed webmaster. He has decided that we will take our vendor page offline for the weekend, and add a "Mazda Dealers" heading.
We will also be taking this opportunity to broaden our disclaimer, and warn people against posting slanderous or vulgar comments, leaving false feedback or using fictitious names.
I hope this makes for good business relations between Mazda and the enthusiast sector. It certainly will be a valuable tool for Mazda to gauge the effectiveness of their dealers. If anyone has any thoughts to share with us about this (including Mazda dealers and corporate people) feel free to post them here, or drop me a PM or e-mail.
Since we already have a vendor feedback page that fits the format being discussed here, http://www.northstarrotaries.com/vendors/ , I decided to discuss this with out esteemed webmaster. He has decided that we will take our vendor page offline for the weekend, and add a "Mazda Dealers" heading.
We will also be taking this opportunity to broaden our disclaimer, and warn people against posting slanderous or vulgar comments, leaving false feedback or using fictitious names.
I hope this makes for good business relations between Mazda and the enthusiast sector. It certainly will be a valuable tool for Mazda to gauge the effectiveness of their dealers.
If anyone has any thoughts to share with us about this (including Mazda dealers and corporate people) feel free to post them here, or drop me a PM or e-mail.
07-29-2002, 09:36 PM
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Remember last summer how Mercedes promoted the C230K "Sports" Coupe? Sure, it's a pathetic car, but it was marketed very well. Remember the catchy "Driving in my Car" song as the guy was traveling over the suspension bridge? (By "Geggy Tah" if you're wondering).
This is how Mazda has to market the RX-8. It's not just the dealers but the overall promotion campaign. Mazda needs to get away from the dumb zoom-zoom kid and start being more serious. More uppity, and a bit more snobby if I do say so myelf. It's called brand imaging.
When people start coming into dealerships other than we car-nuts, they'll start getting more enthused. This car must be marketed to compete with the Mercedes C230 (even though in reality it's not a competitor) because that is who will buy it. 20 year olds just out of college who want a break from ordinary cars.
This is how Mazda has to market the RX-8. It's not just the dealers but the overall promotion campaign. Mazda needs to get away from the dumb zoom-zoom kid and start being more serious. More uppity, and a bit more snobby if I do say so myelf. It's called brand imaging.
When people start coming into dealerships other than we car-nuts, they'll start getting more enthused. This car must be marketed to compete with the Mercedes C230 (even though in reality it's not a competitor) because that is who will buy it. 20 year olds just out of college who want a break from ordinary cars.
07-30-2002, 07:59 AM
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the dealer
sounds like you guys have some real problems with the dealers.
well I found one that breaks away from the pack up by tampa, FL. the had an MP3 and my dad and I went to go look at it. well we got to talking with the salesman and he was a car nut! We started ttalking about RX-7's! A salesman not just trying to sell the MP3 or the mazda cars!! Then that conversaion soon turned into an RX-8 conversation. Now why was this so increadable this happened more than year ago!! The guy was a rotary nut. My dad and I told him there was a couple FB's in key west for sale and he said get this " Can you tell me where they are?" in an excited tone. well I know where to go when the 8 comes out.
and no I don't remember the name of the dealer.
well I found one that breaks away from the pack up by tampa, FL. the had an MP3 and my dad and I went to go look at it. well we got to talking with the salesman and he was a car nut! We started ttalking about RX-7's! A salesman not just trying to sell the MP3 or the mazda cars!! Then that conversaion soon turned into an RX-8 conversation. Now why was this so increadable this happened more than year ago!! The guy was a rotary nut. My dad and I told him there was a couple FB's in key west for sale and he said get this " Can you tell me where they are?" in an excited tone. well I know where to go when the 8 comes out.
and no I don't remember the name of the dealer.
07-30-2002, 01:13 PM
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I think a lot of the angst rotary owners feel towards Mazda dealers comes from two angles:
1) The twin turbo FD RX-7 is a techno nightmare to those not mechanically inclined and possessing a large pocketbook. Hell, even to those that are mechanically inclined with a large pocketbook, the 10 miles of vacuum hoses and under engineered cooling system is a nightmare. The engine and accessories are shoehorned in there so tight, air can't even travel though there. Dealers themselves have been known to pull turbos out and replace them instead of fixing them. Same with whole motors, intakes and various other things they don't "crack in to". Lesson: Most FD owners (reads: the most recent North American rotary car buyers) HATE to even think about bringing their car to a dealer's service department.
2) When the new rotary car selling business dried up in '96, Mazda seemed to quit training their mechanics to service rotary engines. I still have a hard time finding anyone locally that knows jack about the engine. Even our club sponsor, Morrie's Mazda (one of Mazda's top US dealers in service and sales) falls short, and is famous for it's high service and parts prices. Last time I went to my local multi dealer, Walser Lincoln- Mercury-Mazda (note the prominant placement of Mazda in the order) who used to be a dedicated Mazda dealer, they told me that the only mechanic in the place I trusted with my '85 had moved to a Toyota dealership. Boy, those Toyota guys look at you funny when you walk into their service bays and start talking rotaries with a guy working on a 4Runner.
Lesson: A TON of rotary owners feel like abondoned red headed stepchildren. They feel the minute there is no serious money to be made off of them (i.e. no new rotary model to buy) that Mazda and dealers will turn the other way (ahem! Miata) and leave them holding the enthusiasm bag again.
Basically, many rotary owners are mistrusting of Mazda in general, and dealers in particular. Mazda has never really been among the top ranking marques for service. although they are the ONLY marque to produce the rotary in a production car...
But let's not forget in my rambling that I myself am a HARDCORE Mazda rotary enthusiast. I am willing to forgive, forget and carry on. Someone give me a torch to run with. :D
So Mazda, and dealers, we are stuck together. :D Us, the unweildy, untrusting and demanding rotary sports car enthusiasts, and you, the quarterback that has dropped the ball, and picked it back up again. I hope this new rotary line and new company attitude changes the way we do business together.
1) The twin turbo FD RX-7 is a techno nightmare to those not mechanically inclined and possessing a large pocketbook. Hell, even to those that are mechanically inclined with a large pocketbook, the 10 miles of vacuum hoses and under engineered cooling system is a nightmare. The engine and accessories are shoehorned in there so tight, air can't even travel though there. Dealers themselves have been known to pull turbos out and replace them instead of fixing them. Same with whole motors, intakes and various other things they don't "crack in to". Lesson: Most FD owners (reads: the most recent North American rotary car buyers) HATE to even think about bringing their car to a dealer's service department.
2) When the new rotary car selling business dried up in '96, Mazda seemed to quit training their mechanics to service rotary engines. I still have a hard time finding anyone locally that knows jack about the engine. Even our club sponsor, Morrie's Mazda (one of Mazda's top US dealers in service and sales) falls short, and is famous for it's high service and parts prices. Last time I went to my local multi dealer, Walser Lincoln- Mercury-Mazda (note the prominant placement of Mazda in the order) who used to be a dedicated Mazda dealer, they told me that the only mechanic in the place I trusted with my '85 had moved to a Toyota dealership. Boy, those Toyota guys look at you funny when you walk into their service bays and start talking rotaries with a guy working on a 4Runner.
Lesson: A TON of rotary owners feel like abondoned red headed stepchildren. They feel the minute there is no serious money to be made off of them (i.e. no new rotary model to buy) that Mazda and dealers will turn the other way (ahem! Miata) and leave them holding the enthusiasm bag again.Basically, many rotary owners are mistrusting of Mazda in general, and dealers in particular. Mazda has never really been among the top ranking marques for service. although they are the ONLY marque to produce the rotary in a production car...
But let's not forget in my rambling that I myself am a HARDCORE Mazda rotary enthusiast. I am willing to forgive, forget and carry on. Someone give me a torch to run with. :D
So Mazda, and dealers, we are stuck together. :D Us, the unweildy, untrusting and demanding rotary sports car enthusiasts, and you, the quarterback that has dropped the ball, and picked it back up again. I hope this new rotary line and new company attitude changes the way we do business together.
07-30-2002, 08:28 PM
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...or 40-year-olds who bought their RX-7 TII after college but now have a family of 3 and an RX-7 with broken A/C, leaky injector, broken drivers side door handle, etc...
I personally don't think this car will be marketed toward the college grads, in fact I think that would be a huge mistake. There's too much competition for that crowd, and they would risk alienating people in my age group, who I think will be the principal buyers (you know, mid-life crisis and all). But they wouldn't alienate me... I'll get one even if I'm the only owner in the US without acne. Seriously, this car will not have to be 'sold' to the younger car enthusiasts - it will sell itself. I think they should reach out to the 'sport-minded of all ages'. Something like, "for those who think driving should put a smile on your face... for those who believe the driver, not a network of computers, should control the driving experience... for those who routinely turn back for one last look before heading into the office building... the Mazda RX-8."
Good thing I'm an engineer and not in marketing, huh?
I personally don't think this car will be marketed toward the college grads, in fact I think that would be a huge mistake. There's too much competition for that crowd, and they would risk alienating people in my age group, who I think will be the principal buyers (you know, mid-life crisis and all). But they wouldn't alienate me... I'll get one even if I'm the only owner in the US without acne. Seriously, this car will not have to be 'sold' to the younger car enthusiasts - it will sell itself. I think they should reach out to the 'sport-minded of all ages'. Something like, "for those who think driving should put a smile on your face... for those who believe the driver, not a network of computers, should control the driving experience... for those who routinely turn back for one last look before heading into the office building... the Mazda RX-8."
Good thing I'm an engineer and not in marketing, huh?
08-04-2002, 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by khoney
Something like, "for those who think driving should put a smile on your face... for those who believe the driver, not a network of computers, should control the driving experience... for those who routinely turn back for one last look before heading into the office building... the Mazda RX-8."
Good thing I'm an engineer and not in marketing, huh?
Something like, "for those who think driving should put a smile on your face... for those who believe the driver, not a network of computers, should control the driving experience... for those who routinely turn back for one last look before heading into the office building... the Mazda RX-8."
Good thing I'm an engineer and not in marketing, huh?
I can confuse some adults in this way too. Although I am 15 years old my father and many other people say I am vary mature. Now I look at cars as a technological sysbol to the world around you that you mean business. That is what would apeal to me.
08-04-2002, 11:24 PM
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Oh! I thought I already posted this. Maybe another thread? In any case, it doesn't look like anyone has left any new dealers yet...
We're online with the dealers on the Northstar Vendor page now! :D
http://www.northstarrotaries.com/vendors/
Try to be objective in the description when leaving a vendors contact info, and save the scathing or praising review for your feedback.
Enjoy!
We're online with the dealers on the Northstar Vendor page now! :D
http://www.northstarrotaries.com/vendors/
Try to be objective in the description when leaving a vendors contact info, and save the scathing or praising review for your feedback.
Enjoy!
08-13-2002, 12:13 PM
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Will trade kids for RX-8
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Thanks Toadman! :D
Here in Minnesnowta, every other thing in the yellow pages is "Northstar" something or another. We are the Northstar State, even though Texas stole our hockey team, and changed their name to "The Stars". They could have at least changed it to "The Lone Stars" (oxymoron?).
Although my 5 year old son says he wants a Cadillac when he grows up. However, he wants to transplant a rotary turbo engine into it.
He can identify a rotary engine by the outside and inside appearance, and knows the difference between the 3 gens of RX-7 and the RX-8. Now I need to start the history lesson. I need some RX-4 matchbox cars...
Here in Minnesnowta, every other thing in the yellow pages is "Northstar" something or another. We are the Northstar State, even though Texas stole our hockey team, and changed their name to "The Stars". They could have at least changed it to "The Lone Stars" (oxymoron?).
Although my 5 year old son says he wants a Cadillac when he grows up. However, he wants to transplant a rotary turbo engine into it.
He can identify a rotary engine by the outside and inside appearance, and knows the difference between the 3 gens of RX-7 and the RX-8. Now I need to start the history lesson. I need some RX-4 matchbox cars...
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