View Poll Results: If you had to buy the Rx8 all over again, would you prefer:
The traditional Rotary engine currently used
110
75.34%
263 hp, 280 lb-ft 2.3 Turbo'd engine (ala MS3)
36
24.66%
Voters: 146. You may not vote on this poll
RX8 - hypothetical poll
05-29-2007, 08:24 PM
#26
Just for the record, I am a rotary engine fan. I you wanted a piston engine, why are you here?
Your new to this thing aren't you. RX= Rotary Sport. A lot of people make that mistake. The MX5 isn't experimental nor is the CX7/9. X=Sport? Go figure, it's a Mazda thing.
Your new to this thing aren't you. RX= Rotary Sport. A lot of people make that mistake. The MX5 isn't experimental nor is the CX7/9. X=Sport? Go figure, it's a Mazda thing.
Last edited by alnielsen; 05-29-2007 at 08:28 PM.
05-29-2007, 09:29 PM
#28
vV Me on the Dragon Vv
I've got to go with the rotary. Sure, the 2.3L DISI Turbo is a fantastic engine, with very good power and torque. But as others have said, by taking away the super-compact and light-weight rotary engine currently in the car, and replacing it with a comparatively large and heavy 4-banger, you ruin what is best about this car--the fantastic balance and handling feel that could only be accomplished with such a small engine mounted very low in the car and aft of the front axle.
Would I like more power? Absolutely, but not at the cost of losing the car's cornering prowess.
Oh and what j67345 said above: 9,000 RPM is FUN!
Would I like more power? Absolutely, but not at the cost of losing the car's cornering prowess.
Oh and what j67345 said above: 9,000 RPM is FUN!
05-29-2007, 09:33 PM
#29
I'm a long time rotary owner: bought used FC/sold in '94, new FD since '92 and still have, and the 8's been in the garage since last year. I guess for my blunder maybe all the locals can get their cars washed by me at the next meet.
05-30-2007, 08:43 AM
#31
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Every time I test drive a RX-8 I think how much better a car it would be if it had 50-100 more hp. Its a brilliant design with smooth elegant operation, its roomy and well put together. But the problem is you have to pay for this with a Car that dresses out at near $35k, it would start bordering on the $40k mark and most won't pay that for a Mazda or Nissan unless under a Luxury brand Name.
The RX-8 would be more marketable with a little more engine and lot less see through visors and turbine enlayed interior, nice touches for some but engine and handling is whats key. But key the sound of the Rotary engine whining out!!
The RX-8 would be more marketable with a little more engine and lot less see through visors and turbine enlayed interior, nice touches for some but engine and handling is whats key. But key the sound of the Rotary engine whining out!!
05-30-2007, 09:00 AM
#32
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Every time I test drive a Rx-8 I think how much better it would be if it had 50-100 more hp, its a brilliantly designed car, thats has smooth operations. Thats roomy and practical were the dropped the ball imho is in too much spent on see through visors amd turbine shaped interior insigna. Now all thats cool but just thin if they had spent that money on hp in the engine with its handling it be far more marketable. You can't have both obviously too much innovative or cute design and hp plus mid engine car handling.
All these things together and the Rx-8 dressed out is a $35K car, plus a stronger engine it would border on $40k andmostis not gonna pay that for a Mazda or Nissan unless under a Luxury brand. People proudly pay $40+ for a Lexus or Infinity.
All these things together and the Rx-8 dressed out is a $35K car, plus a stronger engine it would border on $40k andmostis not gonna pay that for a Mazda or Nissan unless under a Luxury brand. People proudly pay $40+ for a Lexus or Infinity.
05-30-2007, 09:49 AM
#33
printf("</%i pistons",3);
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I'm actually a fan of the slower acceleration. I don't race or drag or anything, so extreme lurches of power and speed actually turn me off. The love of driving the RX-8 (for me, anyways) doesn't come from the top speed, the acceleration, the handling, the interior, or the sound.
Warning: I'm about to get all poetic, so if you just want the short version skip this block of text.
Each one of those traits is like a single instrument in an orchestra. Yeah, they can be awesome in and of themselves, but nothing compares to the beauty created when they all come together to create a full symphony. And just like any good musical composition, you do not want it to be over quickly.
Cars with high horsepower and limited cornering only satisfy for so long. It's like listening to a really repetative techno song - sure it may get you pumped and excited from the first measure, but after so many repetitions, it just fails to satisfy. When I had my FD I hardly ever floored it. I much rather enjoyed upshifting and giving it just enough juice to get the turbos spooling, savoring the feeling of the boost building as I slunk back into my seat, watching the revs creep up as the exhaust grew in both volume and intensity... an experience that one would want to prolong. It would be over in an instant if you were to downshift and punch it.
I think the RX-8's power:sound:handling:comfort:braking ratio is nothing shy of perfect. Coming up to a stop, you can get on the brakes with a heavy foot and the car will sit down into the ground with a comforting & inspiring studiness. Held on the verge of slipping forward, the back of the seat pushes against you just as hard as the seatbelt holds you back. The steering wheel holds steady, the engine winds down, and when the speedometer finally reads zero, the hard shocks cause the car to rock back on the rear tires so minimally that it almost feels like the car is diging itself into the ground, egarly waiting input on the throttle.
You press the gas and the car silently begins it's crawl forward. The intensity of the initial launch is barely enough to slide you back into your seat, and the engine barely emits more than a whining purr. As the revs slowly work their way up, the intensity of the acceleration continues to grow, slowly pushing you back with a bit more intensity. The engine begins to "wake up" as what was once a purr evolves into a supressed growl, and the steering wheel begins to sputter in a way that seems like the car is tapping you on your shoulder and whispering "are you ready?"
Sudenly the engine erupts with volumesque fury. Despite the abnormally high revs, the force in which you are being pressed into your seat is still ever-growing. A cocaphony of new sounds come from the engine as the redline nears; mechanical wines and wirrs that closely resemble that of some sort of forced induction join the ravenous howl that fills the interior. Despite the steadily increasing pull forward, a mechanical scream comes from the dashboard telling you that the first movement of the symphony is complete, and that now would be a good time to shift into second.
The car becomes an extension of your being for a split second; the clutch almost drops to the floor on it's own as your foot follows it through. With little more than a feather's touch, the shifter is spit out of first gear and sucked into second with so little effort that for a moment you wonder if the car just shifted for you. All of this coupled by a mild rock forward comes together in a way that for a moment you feel like the car is driving you. As you hammer down on the gas pedal and lift your left foot, you swear that the car is telling you to hold on tight.
With all the fury and passion of a V6, the car lunges itself forward with a satisfying chirp, sending any lose articles on the dashboard into the backseats. The wines and wirrs of the pseudo-charger work their way back into the main chior as the seemingly infinate acceleration presents itself once more. Your heart is racing despite the fact that you've done this a hundred times before, and you've got the same involuntary ear-to-ear grin that always seems to happen at a time like this.
Ahead of you is a tight turn, but your smile does not fade, and your heart does not jump. You surrender from the throttle only for an instant as the car gently leans forward onto the front tires in a way that just screams "let's f**king do this" just moments before you crank the wheel. The items in the backseat (formerly on the dash) plaster themselves to the rear doors like a cartoon character on a brick wall. Your torso is thrown hard to the side as you sharply stop your breath in order to tighten your abs, and your knuckles whiten as you hold yourself in place. And despite all this coupled by sound of everything in your ashtray, glovebox, and trunk, sliding to one side of the car, the car seems to be frantically telling you "go! go! go!"
Without a thought you leaden your foot. With little torque to cause your *** to go flying out from behind you, and nothing but raw high-rev power waiting to explode from the dual-dorito turbine that sits inches from your ankles, the vehicle tucks into the turn with the heart of a motorcycle. The engine practically comes out of nowhere, going from nearly silent to nearly deafening in an instant as car rides out the turn as if it were riding on rails.
The instant you finish the turn reality kicks back in. This isn't a race track; you need to slow down and be careful! You hit the clutch and silence the roar of the engine as you take a quick glance at the speedo...
...59mph! You weren't even going 10mph over the speed limit! 10 consecutive seconds of driving bliss and full-throttle pleasure that is hardly ever found outside of a comercial, and you were only in danger of getting a speeding ticket so miniscule that it could be effortlessly dismissed!
[/poetry]
Sorry for being so cheesy and poetic, but that's really how I feel when I drive my 8. I won't lie - there are times when I really REALLY want the heart-stoping launch of the FD, or the 60-100 in 4.4 seconds that my friend's Evo delivers, but as soon as get my fix for HP/Torque and get back in my 8, in less than a minute I'm already thinking to myself "nah - this is MUCH better."
Spirited driving is like a good song. You want it to last for a long time, and you want a little bit of everything. Dropping anything but a Renisis in an RX-8 would take that away. I mean, we're talking about day-to-day driving here. What use is a 0-60 of 3.3s to you in that kind of situation anyways?
"OOO!! Green light! *Chirp-RAAa* Oops - speed limit! Time to set cruise control for the next 16 seconds of this ¼ mile road."
uhh... weeeee?
And at what point do you enjoy the sound of your engine? My friend's Evo sounds as sexy as an Integra Type-R done right, but you never get to enjoy it! He gets on the highway from a 15mph roll and it's like
vrrr*PSH*aaaa*PSH*AA*PSH*AAAAAAAA*PSH* Oh *****! Brakes! We're going 120!
once again... weeeee?
If I raced, I'm sure I'd understand why so many people bitch about the RX-8 being under-powered. My 8 gives me just the right amount of power for me to keep the pedal to the metal 80% of the time, just the right amount of torque to let me floor it around every turn and not risk crashing, just the right amound of comfort to keep my back from aching between red lights, and just the right amount of cornering to let me push the tires and suspension to it's limits aound every turn while still having plenty of room for error.
Warning: I'm about to get all poetic, so if you just want the short version skip this block of text.
Each one of those traits is like a single instrument in an orchestra. Yeah, they can be awesome in and of themselves, but nothing compares to the beauty created when they all come together to create a full symphony. And just like any good musical composition, you do not want it to be over quickly.
Cars with high horsepower and limited cornering only satisfy for so long. It's like listening to a really repetative techno song - sure it may get you pumped and excited from the first measure, but after so many repetitions, it just fails to satisfy. When I had my FD I hardly ever floored it. I much rather enjoyed upshifting and giving it just enough juice to get the turbos spooling, savoring the feeling of the boost building as I slunk back into my seat, watching the revs creep up as the exhaust grew in both volume and intensity... an experience that one would want to prolong. It would be over in an instant if you were to downshift and punch it.
I think the RX-8's power:sound:handling:comfort:braking ratio is nothing shy of perfect. Coming up to a stop, you can get on the brakes with a heavy foot and the car will sit down into the ground with a comforting & inspiring studiness. Held on the verge of slipping forward, the back of the seat pushes against you just as hard as the seatbelt holds you back. The steering wheel holds steady, the engine winds down, and when the speedometer finally reads zero, the hard shocks cause the car to rock back on the rear tires so minimally that it almost feels like the car is diging itself into the ground, egarly waiting input on the throttle.
You press the gas and the car silently begins it's crawl forward. The intensity of the initial launch is barely enough to slide you back into your seat, and the engine barely emits more than a whining purr. As the revs slowly work their way up, the intensity of the acceleration continues to grow, slowly pushing you back with a bit more intensity. The engine begins to "wake up" as what was once a purr evolves into a supressed growl, and the steering wheel begins to sputter in a way that seems like the car is tapping you on your shoulder and whispering "are you ready?"
Sudenly the engine erupts with volumesque fury. Despite the abnormally high revs, the force in which you are being pressed into your seat is still ever-growing. A cocaphony of new sounds come from the engine as the redline nears; mechanical wines and wirrs that closely resemble that of some sort of forced induction join the ravenous howl that fills the interior. Despite the steadily increasing pull forward, a mechanical scream comes from the dashboard telling you that the first movement of the symphony is complete, and that now would be a good time to shift into second.
The car becomes an extension of your being for a split second; the clutch almost drops to the floor on it's own as your foot follows it through. With little more than a feather's touch, the shifter is spit out of first gear and sucked into second with so little effort that for a moment you wonder if the car just shifted for you. All of this coupled by a mild rock forward comes together in a way that for a moment you feel like the car is driving you. As you hammer down on the gas pedal and lift your left foot, you swear that the car is telling you to hold on tight.
With all the fury and passion of a V6, the car lunges itself forward with a satisfying chirp, sending any lose articles on the dashboard into the backseats. The wines and wirrs of the pseudo-charger work their way back into the main chior as the seemingly infinate acceleration presents itself once more. Your heart is racing despite the fact that you've done this a hundred times before, and you've got the same involuntary ear-to-ear grin that always seems to happen at a time like this.
Ahead of you is a tight turn, but your smile does not fade, and your heart does not jump. You surrender from the throttle only for an instant as the car gently leans forward onto the front tires in a way that just screams "let's f**king do this" just moments before you crank the wheel. The items in the backseat (formerly on the dash) plaster themselves to the rear doors like a cartoon character on a brick wall. Your torso is thrown hard to the side as you sharply stop your breath in order to tighten your abs, and your knuckles whiten as you hold yourself in place. And despite all this coupled by sound of everything in your ashtray, glovebox, and trunk, sliding to one side of the car, the car seems to be frantically telling you "go! go! go!"
Without a thought you leaden your foot. With little torque to cause your *** to go flying out from behind you, and nothing but raw high-rev power waiting to explode from the dual-dorito turbine that sits inches from your ankles, the vehicle tucks into the turn with the heart of a motorcycle. The engine practically comes out of nowhere, going from nearly silent to nearly deafening in an instant as car rides out the turn as if it were riding on rails.
The instant you finish the turn reality kicks back in. This isn't a race track; you need to slow down and be careful! You hit the clutch and silence the roar of the engine as you take a quick glance at the speedo...
...59mph! You weren't even going 10mph over the speed limit! 10 consecutive seconds of driving bliss and full-throttle pleasure that is hardly ever found outside of a comercial, and you were only in danger of getting a speeding ticket so miniscule that it could be effortlessly dismissed!
[/poetry]
Sorry for being so cheesy and poetic, but that's really how I feel when I drive my 8. I won't lie - there are times when I really REALLY want the heart-stoping launch of the FD, or the 60-100 in 4.4 seconds that my friend's Evo delivers, but as soon as get my fix for HP/Torque and get back in my 8, in less than a minute I'm already thinking to myself "nah - this is MUCH better."
Spirited driving is like a good song. You want it to last for a long time, and you want a little bit of everything. Dropping anything but a Renisis in an RX-8 would take that away. I mean, we're talking about day-to-day driving here. What use is a 0-60 of 3.3s to you in that kind of situation anyways?
"OOO!! Green light! *Chirp-RAAa* Oops - speed limit! Time to set cruise control for the next 16 seconds of this ¼ mile road."
uhh... weeeee?
And at what point do you enjoy the sound of your engine? My friend's Evo sounds as sexy as an Integra Type-R done right, but you never get to enjoy it! He gets on the highway from a 15mph roll and it's like
vrrr*PSH*aaaa*PSH*AA*PSH*AAAAAAAA*PSH* Oh *****! Brakes! We're going 120!
once again... weeeee?
If I raced, I'm sure I'd understand why so many people bitch about the RX-8 being under-powered. My 8 gives me just the right amount of power for me to keep the pedal to the metal 80% of the time, just the right amount of torque to let me floor it around every turn and not risk crashing, just the right amound of comfort to keep my back from aching between red lights, and just the right amount of cornering to let me push the tires and suspension to it's limits aound every turn while still having plenty of room for error.
Last edited by ½mv²; 05-30-2007 at 10:03 AM.
05-30-2007, 02:37 PM
#35
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The rotary engine is cool, as is the car itself. Flooding is not; neither is horrendous gas mileage.
This is our third rotary car (we've previously owned an RX-2 and an RX-3). We never had the flooding issue with the other two, and both got much better gas mileage than the RX-8. We also owned a 323GT some time ago (bought new and run into the ground); it was a fine car, with excellent power, handling and gas mileage. Likewise, the Miata is a fine car.
We like our RX-8, and will keep it for a long time. That said, if we had it to do over again, we would buy a different car. A torquier engine, getting better mileage, without the flooding issue, would make the car a total winner, IMO.
This is our third rotary car (we've previously owned an RX-2 and an RX-3). We never had the flooding issue with the other two, and both got much better gas mileage than the RX-8. We also owned a 323GT some time ago (bought new and run into the ground); it was a fine car, with excellent power, handling and gas mileage. Likewise, the Miata is a fine car.
We like our RX-8, and will keep it for a long time. That said, if we had it to do over again, we would buy a different car. A torquier engine, getting better mileage, without the flooding issue, would make the car a total winner, IMO.
Last edited by 124Spider; 05-30-2007 at 02:41 PM.
05-30-2007, 04:02 PM
#36
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I voted Rotary as well. I love it for it's light weight and small size and what that does for the chassis. The power is just OK, but BHP simply isn't something I care too much about as an avid autocrosser.
I also have a deep dislike for turbos. Love N/A response and linearity. Nearly every turbo I have driven I have disliked for it's power delivery.
I also have a deep dislike for turbos. Love N/A response and linearity. Nearly every turbo I have driven I have disliked for it's power delivery.
05-30-2007, 04:18 PM
#38
Grand Chancellor
If power is everything I'd get a STi or a Mustang. What I like is an uncompromised well balanced sports car. Such single dimension perception. Hence you are a Z person.
05-30-2007, 07:56 PM
#39
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I'm actually a fan of the slower acceleration. I don't race or drag or anything, so extreme lurches of power and speed actually turn me off. The love of driving the RX-8 (for me, anyways) doesn't come from the top speed, the acceleration, the handling, the interior, or the sound.
*** EXCESSIVE SPEWING CUT ***
...59mph! You weren't even going 10mph over the speed limit! 10 consecutive seconds of driving bliss and full-throttle pleasure that is hardly ever found outside of a comercial, and you were only in danger of getting a speeding ticket so miniscule that it could be effortlessly dismissed!
*** EXCESSIVE SPEWING CUT ***
*** EXCESSIVE SPEWING CUT ***
...59mph! You weren't even going 10mph over the speed limit! 10 consecutive seconds of driving bliss and full-throttle pleasure that is hardly ever found outside of a comercial, and you were only in danger of getting a speeding ticket so miniscule that it could be effortlessly dismissed!
*** EXCESSIVE SPEWING CUT ***
1) you drive an automatic
2) you smoke pot while you drive (shame on u!)
05-30-2007, 10:48 PM
#41
So spend the $300 and get a boost controller, then adjust the wastegate speed so you get a smooth power delivery that will feel the same as stock, but with the extra power.
05-30-2007, 11:09 PM
#42
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05-31-2007, 12:23 AM
#43
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Bought the 8 for *everything* that it is. Looks, interior comfort, rotary engine, lightweight, corner eating machine. Take away any part of that & it's not the same car, thus I don't buy it.
Hypothetically, you're silly.
Hypothetically, you're silly.
05-31-2007, 01:01 AM
#44
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I don't care what under the hood as long as the car "delivers". If I could get more hp / Tq for "free" with no loss to the car besides a lower red line (offset a little by a lower lug line".)
As long as nothing was messed up by doing this. (Probably impossible to do in reality. Then sure, I would switch. Maybe get better MPG too.
I would expect a 2.3L engine to be larger than a 1.3L. So, I would expect serious fitment issues.
BTW - what's the point of this thread. Hope your not thinking of contacting Mazda and telling them something they already know (loosing sales because of low numbers)
Or telling the an impractical "solution" you "discovered" put in the MS3 / Mazda6 2.3L engine.
As long as nothing was messed up by doing this. (Probably impossible to do in reality. Then sure, I would switch. Maybe get better MPG too.
I would expect a 2.3L engine to be larger than a 1.3L. So, I would expect serious fitment issues.
BTW - what's the point of this thread. Hope your not thinking of contacting Mazda and telling them something they already know (loosing sales because of low numbers)
Or telling the an impractical "solution" you "discovered" put in the MS3 / Mazda6 2.3L engine.
05-31-2007, 02:35 AM
#46
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having a rotary engine makes me feel unique and having to explain how it works make me sound like a freakin' genius. the rx8 wouldn't be balanced without the 13b so it would lose some of its handling abilities. a .4 sec faster time on a 1/4 mile strip, or more fun at the track ? i choose the track.
i'd have to get an s2k IF i wanted a piston engine.
i'd have to get an s2k IF i wanted a piston engine.
05-31-2007, 06:39 AM
#48
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I bought the 8 because in the 90"s I LOVED the 7.
Although the rotary does improve the handling making the 8 the most fun car I've ever driven, the gas mileage is bad and I've had so many problems associated with the rotary engine that I won't buy another rotary. I'd buy the 8 with piston power.
I'll probably trade in for the MS 3 in another year.
Although the rotary does improve the handling making the 8 the most fun car I've ever driven, the gas mileage is bad and I've had so many problems associated with the rotary engine that I won't buy another rotary. I'd buy the 8 with piston power.
I'll probably trade in for the MS 3 in another year.
