tidmutt

Hi All,

Been a long time lurker and have been car shopping for some time. I finally decided to take the plunge and found a 2007 Grand Touring brand new RX8. The dealer was advertising a significant discount and told me that it was a stock GT with no extras. Just what I was looking for...

Of course, when I arrive on the lot (an hour's drive away) the GT has Sirius, Appearance Package, Rotary Accent Package, Spoiler, Sun roof wind protector/defuser. Definitely not a bare-bones GT. So I was annoyed and so they came up with the following deal which included basically giving me the Appearance Package for free (although I still pay for everything else). Let me know what you guys think (these numbers are rough as they wouldn't let me take the price sheet with me).

Price 33800
Discount -8579
Subtotal 25221 (price before tax, tag, fees etc.)
Trade In -4000
Dealer Fee 799
Doc Fee 199
Trade Fee 395
Tag 265
Tax 1780
Final Price 24659

I know you can't comment on the trade in, but how about the GT for $25K (subtotal line)? Personally I thought the fees were ridiculous... over $1600 in fees!
The thing is, I never wanted the extra stuff like the Sat radio, Appearance Package so I don't consider it a great deal getting some of it for free.

I'd appreciate any feedback. Thanks.

ne0lain

man its an ok deal but they are still jacking you. i run five dealerships and from what it looks like they are making about 1500 on the front and who know on the back end... good luck

tajabaho1

its a decent deal

tidmutt

hey, thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I figure those "packages" such as the Appearance Package are lucrative for them, plus the dealer fees are pure profit. They let me walk though. I wasn't happy. I'm going to call the General Manager tomorrow and see if he'll deal a little more.

Is dropping it another $2K - $2.5K, so a total of $22 - $22.5K unreasonable?

4me2

Trade Fee 395
Tag 265
WTF is that?

tidmutt

lol... yeah, the trade fee of $395 is a fee for "inspecting the car" after I trade it... what a load of $%#!

the Tag for $265 is standard pretty much in this state. Admittedly I will get most of that back later. So feel free to ignore that.

4me2

Do you love the car? If so, get it. Freak you only live once. And RX8's make ya feel good.

tidmutt

I love the car. When I actually buy one, I'll post the story of how I decided on it. It's just awesome, not perfect, but regardless, it's sensational. Saying that, I'm patient and will wait until I find a deal I'm happy with. However, with all the BS associated with car buying I was hoping for some fresh perspectives from you guys.

So anyone else care to comment?

ne0lain

They can have a doc fee all dealerships do and you can't get out of that but The dealer fee is crap and trade fee is crap. It looks like they are taxing the price of the car and not the trade diff. but i don't know what you taxes are. Have them show you the invoice and then the rebates/ dealer cash and then tell them you what to go 300 back of invoice plus are the rebates in.... So then you are now in there hold back money. If you aren't paying cash then they will make money on the back end, so get gap and you want them to discount the gap price too. In my book you can still sell a car and make someone happy. I have had people drive 600 miles just to buy a car from me... Also they will give you crap like am selling the call at cost so I have to wholesale your car... thats crap it so we can still make a little money... even if you go this route they will make money but very little..

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

Im a salesman, its not a bad deal if you can get them to drop a thousand, btw, 1500 front isnt a huge profit so theyre not clobering you.

tidmutt

Well, I am financing through Mazda financing, so I figured they were making some there too. Okay, I'll call the GM tomorrow and see where things lead.

As for the trade in, well that was a bit disappointing. It's a 2002 Mazda Protege 5. The GM told me on the phone that he'd give me Kelly Blue Book "Fair value", which is $6235 even though I told him that it had been in an accident, even told him how much damage. He said as long as it's repaired, it's not an issue. It's also offset by the fact that the car is in pretty good condition and is low mileage. If they came close, say in the $5500 range, I would have been happier and would probably be driving the RX8 right now.

Dialn24

I'm just curious how some are figuring they are making 1 to 1.5K on the front end of this deal.

I too am in the market for a RX-8 and have looked at pricing pretty well. I too have car sales experience, and I am not seeing it. Granted, those 4 years weren't at a Mazda dealership, but quickly looking at the numbers:

1) The price is well below invoice with the $3,500 rebate.
2) In fact, it looks to be below net net invoice.
3) The dealer is recovering that by charging ridiculous fees (dealer fee and trade fee).
4) Even taking that into consideration, it's not that far above net net invoice (I am considering holdback, warranty recovery, and advertising).

The front end looks like a solid offer.

The trade, I'm not sure. Haven't looked at that. Going by what the original poster just said, it looks like they are lowballing him/her on the trade some. So, they are making money back up there. Then there is the financing, they are going to get some back end money there too.

I personally think the price on the RX-8 is a solid offer overall. Trade and financing, have no clue at this point.

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

thats where they make money is on the trade, theres a thing called ACV, actual cash value; see if they show you 4000 dollars for you trade but its actual cash value is 1000 then thats profit for the dealership! Thats what enables them to drop the price of the vehicle. On that same note they can "overallow" which means they show you 4000 for trade but the ACV is 3000, then that 1000 comes out of commission; but then theyll price the vehicle high! Does that make sense? As they satisfy one thing that your bitchin about they make money somewhere else, so Id hit them up on everything! **** if they dont let it go, find another one! Theyre out there, shoot if youre near Iowa hit me up! I got 3 on my lot!

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

I meant ACV of 5000, then the profit would be 1000, sorry if im making this confusing!

Dialn24

Renesis...........good points. If the ACV of his/her trade is 6K for instance, then they are recouping another 2K there and that doesn't include the back end kick back they'll get from Mazda.

tidmutt

Well, I felt like the deal on the car was not bad. Although I'm annoyed that I have a bunch of extras on the car I don't want. Where I felt I was getting screwed is with the Trade In and Dealer Fees as another poster already mentioned.

They tried this whole "well, since it's been in an front-end collision we can't give you what the GM originally told you". That is crap since I told the GM all the details of the accident and he said he would give me Kelly Blue Book Fair value. Granted, he hadn't sighted the car, but come on, get a little closer to what you promised. They started with $3K for the trade-in!

$1K - $2K less and I would probably have signed.

tidmutt

Also, there was 240 miles on the odometer. Is that a little high, or normal for a car that's on the lot?

tidmutt

I have to confess, I don't quite get the ACV concept? Is this the predicted value they'll get for the trade-in when they sell it?

Dialn24

Price leaders suck. All they do is **** people off when they get to the dealership and they car miraculously was just sold. Especially, one like you that drove an hour to get there for that specific vehicle. It's too late at that dealer, but my advice going forward would be not to tell them it's been in an accident (not sure if there are states that require that disclosure though). Dealers will look for any reason to give you less for your car, it's their job to find something like that is the way i look at it. I know it's frustrating, but I can kind of understand why they didn't give you the numbers though. I never did. Especially, not on anything that had the dealers name on it. Some other dealer would just barely beat it and you would lose a sale. They're just trying to prevent that.

It's really starting to sound like they did find on the price of the RX-8, but they are trying to screw you on your trade. Is there any current damage on your trade?

Dialn24

No. It's the actual cash value. It's the "hard money" amount they are actually saying your car is worth.

tidmutt

The trade-in has no damage other than normal wear for a 5 year old vehicle (odd stone chip etc.). It's low mileage (49,000 miles), was repaired by an authorized Geico repair shop and has had ZERO problems since the accident 5 years ago (yeah, the accident happened when the car was just one month old, it was incredibly depressing at the time). I even did an Edmunds used car True Market Value which factored in the accident, repair cost etc. and it came up with $6200 as a trade-in value. All they have to do is come close to that and I'd bite.

As for disclosing the accident, well, every dealer in the area seems to pull a carfax report. I've seen it a bunch of times and I had already pulled one myself to see what it said. So I figured I may as well just admit it up front and avoid any BS. Of course, I still got the BS.

In a way I don't blame them for not giving me the figures either. In the end, I have no problem with them making some money, that's the whole idea. Just don't BS me.... I tried telling the General Manager that I'm not one to be persuaded once you get me in the dealership. So just be upfront with me on the phone. However, obviously the tactic of getting people to the dealership works because they continue to push for that and they tried it and I walked.

tidmutt

I'm curious why the dealer would ever disclose that? Unless of course it was lower than what they are offering.

Dialn24

One of the problems with getting trade in values online is it doesn't really give you the true ACV of your trade in. Unfortunately, in my experience, cars are usually worth less from an ACV standpoint then what those sites show online.

I also have an advantage as the state I live that wrecks aren't reported into Carfax really. So, it may or may not show up here. That does put you at a disadvantage because dealers are always looking for a reason to give you less then what it's worth. Some dealers just think that they can say whatever they want to get people to come in. Heck, I'm running into it all the time. I too am in the market to buy a RX-8 and ran into that exact problem this past Saturday. Was talking on the phone to the salesperson, had numbers finalized (so I thought) and heck, even told him I had 4 years experience working at a dealer, and they still tried those stupid games on me when I got there and tried to undercut my trade by 3K. I didn't even say anything, I just grabbed my keys and walked out. I have found another dealer that looks to be straight up at this point and things are getting finalized for me to finally get my RX-8 hopefully this Saturday.

Just don't put up with their BS and good luck

Dialn24

They likely won't disclose the true number they are giving you for it. It really depends on how the deal is written.

Hypothetically, they could be sitting on a 3K profit on a car they are trying to sell. They could show you $1,500 more then ACV for your trade and overall have a $1,500 profit.

Or let's say it's a price leader that is a 1K profit. They then could show you $500 less then ACV for your trade and they still make the same $1.5K profit overall.

I have no idea what the ACV is of your car at this point, but my guess is they likely put the ACV higher then $4K on your trade, but are trying to make some profit by showing you less then ACV for it.

tidmutt

Dialn24... any chance you could fill me in on the price you're looking at paying this weekend?