boarder

Elara: what you say has some truth to it, but, the shear number of threads about mpg and the total number of ppl agreeing is quite to the contrary of your statement. A few threads here and there are one thing, but I would say mpg has probably been the top thread maker since the car was introduced (hp issue may have been more). If you notice, I haven't been that loud about it because I like the car overall and don't expect mazda to do anything about the mpg problem. There are quite a few like me. The last local rx-8 group meeting I went to, I was in the majority (prolly 3/4). Also note that recent long-term reviews of the car have been saying the exact same thing. So I doubt that its just a small group of us complaining too loud. Ok, I will admit some ppl complain WAY too much

I get around 13-16 without trying to do anything, regardless if I try and keep it in low rpms or if I just run around normally. I've I drive it real hard, I get about 13. If I get anywhere over 16 I almost get giddy. (btw, i have 6-spd fully loaded if it matters).

Most of us with bad mpg feel that its just a "con" to the car, but there are so many "pros" that we see past it. Frankly, the non-highway only mpg sucks, but I still love the car. I'll pay a bit more for the fuel while I own it, oh well. I have more of an issue with the distance between fillups, than the mpg itself.

I do agree the lawsuit would go nowhere. Even if it did, we all lose (mazda and us), and the lawyers win. I am sure mazda will be looking for ways to increase mpg on their own as that will help sell the car in the future. Imagine if this car could get 25-30mpg or higher all around .... man would that sell like crazy. But what would we have to talk about ... turbos only ?

BIMMER5&RX8

Come on man! The EPA numbers by definition are published by the EPA. Why Mazda should be sued? We Americans have nothing better to do but file lawsuits.

If the Z owners win the suit, they will get free oil filters and the lawyers will make millions.

Elara

I think, if you look, you're going to find the threads are the same people replying over and over, every time one person decides to complain in a new thread. I know I've personally replied to about 20 of them over the past year, in various numbers. Much of the replies are from people who are getting good gas mileage replying to those who aren't, giving suggestions on how to do so. There are 10k+ members on here, and relatively few of them actually own the car. Perhaps 3-4k of us. And perhaps 300 have complained (on here) about gas mileage. Out of 100k+ RX-8's built and sold worldwide, the very small sampling on here represents almost nothing. While it may seem like a few people on the internet complaining about something mean it's true, you have to read between the lines.

boarder

So you really think its just a few ppl complaining ?

Guess the same people own the magazines and car review websites as well.

Oh, and the people I talk to in person at the local meets.

Oh, and me (who has never started a thread about bad mpg). Oh, and my coworker who also has an rx-8 with the same issues (also never started a thread about mpg).

And I really don't think everyone who has bad mpg has posted on this board, probably not even half.

Its generally good to try reading the lines before you attempt to read in between them.

The simple fact is the rotary engine in the rx-8 burns fuel rapidly. Its only fuel "efficient" in a few areas. If you don't drive on the highway a lot (or roads like them), your not likely to get very good mileage. The EPA estimates are based on a test which does not truly simulate city driving. The effect is worsened for the rx-8 by the test being performed around 3K rpms. That rpm level is not what would be considered normal for rx-8 daily driving. Its not even halfway through its expected range, let alone anywhere near medium to full power. Whats so hard to figure out about that ?

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

NoPistonsHere

Here are some of my numbers


with L flash
91 octain
290 miles
filled up 14.567 gallons
regular driving and the
Beeping revs

With L Flash
89 octain
300 miles
Filled up 14.885 Gallons
kept it mostly 70-65

Upgraded to M Flash
87 octain
290 miles
filled up 14.670
70-65 mostly

M Flash
91 octain
283 mile
filled up 13.600 Gallons
had some fun and
was late for work
beeped reved a
couple times

M Flash
91 octain
338.4 miles
filled up 14.481 Gallons
changed gears at 3000 rpm
cruising with a/c on at 60-62 MPH
DSC/TCS off, traveled 338.4 miles in
one weekend 75 % freeway 25 % city

NO Lemon Here....LOL

RX22

I agree that this lawsuit thing is out of control, and I would even go as far as saying that I hope Nissan wins the lawsuit and doesn't have to pay anything. But then again Nissan is now a French company, so I hope they get taken to the cleaners!! Actually the rest of us should sue the 350Z owners for buying a French car in the first place!!

Pppttoooey!! on z'fwench!!!

Paradox

Class action lawsuits are for trolls. They help noone except the lawyers filing it. I love my car anyway. Leave my CLass out of it.

FerritalianoRX8

I am interested about the problems on the braking issues, do tell or direct me to some material.

Mitch Strickler

[QUOTE=MadRonin]

The truth of the matter is the MPG rating on the RX-8 or any other car for that matter is what the EPA projects from their antiquainted testing. Mazda does nothing but post the rating on their cars.

The truth:
1. EPA specifies the testing method. (It's antiquated.)
2. Mazda takes engines of its choosing and runs the test. Mazda sends the results to EPA.
3. Mazda then finds its test engines wouldn't pass converter-life tests, and reflashes the cars we get to get worse mileage.
4. EPA takes Mazda's false numbers, and applies its (antiquated) adjustment based on real life results over the years (22% lower for highway, 10% lower for city).

EPA does nothing to distort the results; Mazda does it all.

But, because of all the variables about mileage, and the wide range in the EPA claims, I don't think anyone has ever had a successful class action suit about low mileage, and I don't think RX8 owners would be the first.

Mitch

RotaMotion

If the car gets lower fuel mileage, it gets lower fuel mileage. However, if the test Mazda did for EPA MPG certification--yes, hand built ringer engine and all--used a different fuel management program that was more fuel efficient that what is being sold to the public in the production model. That, to me, opens the door to the question of fraud.

Maybe this could be looked at as the modern day equivalent of EPA MPG certifying a car with a well tuned fuel sipping 2 barrel carb and then selling it with a crappy slopply built over-jetted 4 barrel that literally drowns HP and MPG. Yeah, I know, kind of a weak analogy, just couldn't think of a better one. Still I think it gets at the "spirit" of the point I'm trying to make.

Bottom line the EPA numbers should be run using the fuel map we have on our cars. Can you imagine what the EPA #s would have been if they had been run with the mutated J flash.

That’s my issue. Not the mileage, but the integrity of the testing that gives us the MPG figures that are part of our purchase decision. Yes, I love my 8, but if the EPA sticker had said 15 city and 20 Hwy, I would have stopped to think about it. Also, I find the EPA #s these days are pretty accurate. Yeah, my mileage is usually down a bit because I drive hard, but I expect that. My mileage in my 8 is way below the hit I expect to take for my driving style vs the EPA MPG #s. Also, the hit is much larger than the hit I took on my other cars for my driving style vs the EPA MPG #s

Also, then there is the whole issue of Corporate Average Fuel Economy numbers and Mazda’s honesty with the data they are using to generate those numbers at the expense of our pocketbook at the pump.

And lastly, if the EPA numbers had said 15 city and I still bought the car, you definitely would not see me bitching about my MPG even if it were 13. Yet if it were actually 10 MPG, I would be bitching...

And lastly, lastly. The EPA MPG on my 92 Sentra SE-R was 24-32. It now has 180K Hard miles. I have consistently driven it like a stolen car and have consistently gotten 26-28 MPG. Only saw 32 once (Reason: you have to drive under 80 on the FWY for that to happen), but also have never wallowed around in 20-22 MPG land either...

Jump120MPH

Do a search. When I went to the dealer for some scheduled maintenance they told me that Mazda was working on it. Said they were trying some different materials in the pads.

KKMmaniac

Incidentally, there has been somewhat of a flap about hybrid cars not getting their EPA rated mileage. See http://www.idealog.us/2004/05/why_your_toyota.html

If they do indeed use emissions as a determining factor of fuel mileage, remember, the RX8 engine is a fairly clean burning engine that could give the impression of using less fuel.

For those who regularly get 16 MPG or less in conservative driving, I would think they would have to present their case to Mazda on an individual basis. (although I know it is difficult to get results this way)

Class Action? The RX8 has lots of class, but it hasn't gotten me any action!

RandyP

PUH-LEASE!!! France believes in "Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity" just like we do. I'm well aware of France's role in the UN debate over Iraq. At the time, I told my European friends "I trust my President as an American" and I did. However... given that we've found no WMD, just a cowering little wimp in a hole... maybe France was right. Je ne sais pas.

WTF no turbo

Move there then and join your socialist buddies.France is a ***** country that we have bailed out more then once.Push comes to shove and they stick it up Bush's ***.France had its reasons for doing it to,they have been in bed with Iraq for years.Vote for Kerry while your at it and watch more buildings fall down.

JimW

The difference is Nissan's problem can be attributed to a safety issue possibly causing tire failure leading to injury or even death. If a condition exists that can't be fixed and the Manufacturer is aware of it and this problem leads to injury or death, then Nissan may be held accountable. Let's face it, I'm sure there is more concern over this vrs a gas mileage issue. But before it even get's to all this crap I'm sure NHSTA will hold and investigation and force Nissan to recall the effected cars to either fix it or issue refunds. Mazda's problems with lower than advertised gas mileage and lower than advertised power ratings of a supposed 238 H.P. figure which is assumed to be lower by many owners, due to dyno's of 170-180 horsepower to the wheels and Racing Beats 218 crank Horsepower rating at the crank using a chasis dyno. This chasis dyno was also run with a K&N Typhoon air intake which they rated at 7 H.P. which then gives you a 211 H.P.( if accurate) at the motor from the 6 speed RX8, using the stock air filter. If in fact a 5% margin of error is allowed for power figures, this means Mazda advertised rating fails, since they advertise 238 H.P. and using a 5% margin of error only gives you 222 H.P. at the most. If Mazda's figures are in fact wrong then more assumptions can be considered then just blaming it on EPA's testing procedures, rather a good argument can be made for bad tuning or defective parts. I also find it ironic that one of EPAs explainations of deviations on mileage can be attributed to the age and condition of the car. If this leads to lawsuit crapola,who knows. A good argument can be made for misleading information and false advertisment, but as most people know, these are only speculations and haven't been proven one way or the other and perhaps never will be. It does leave a negative image with Mazda and the RX8 when this subject comes up however.

Spazm

Pathetic. Lets list every single part in the car that doesn't work exactly as we feel it should work, and then SUE!

Why worry about the terrorists? We do a much better job destroying ourselves than they ever will.

And keep the French/anti-french bullshit out of here, its tiring.

Grabitquick

As I posted earlier, a gas milage suit in court is a complete non-starter. Mazda's attorneys (can you say FORD) would just eat it up. People don't die from poor milage. Could be time to just let this string go the way of the dodo.

Grabitquick

Had to check my spelling after the last post. Yes, "milage" is an accepted variation of "mileage."

DOMINION

Its a waste of time. If you cant afford to pay for the gas in a $40 car dont buy one.

DOMINION

Its all fixed.

Elara

good lord. keep the stupid thread on topic guys. You want to discuss politics, go to the lounge.

NAVILESRX8

iTrader: (1)

I have no beef with the car. All the problems I had were fixed with known TSB's. The diff has been changed once, though, and the second unit is starting whine like the first one did. We'll see what happens. But other than that, it has been great. I have been able to get the EPA mpg numbers no problem. I joke about bad gas mileage to other rotary owners, but really it's pretty good. C'mon, my friend's 90 GTU barely got better mileage(21 to my 20mpg) on a roadtrip we took. Both filled up exactly the same time and place with same 89 octane gas. Stopped after 180 or so miles and he pumped in less 1 gallon less than me. Anyway, the RX8 has at least 70hp on the 90 FC NA, has steep 4.44 gears and .84 overdrive to his .74 and 4.10 gears, also the FC weighs like 2600-2700 lbs to my 3000lbs. I bet you put those gears on an RX8 and shed maybe 200 lbs, this thing will get like 30mpg.....

And suing Mazda? retarded......

NAVILESRX8

iTrader: (1)

C'mon...enough with the politics......the arguments never end.....

RX22

C'mon, we HAVE to talk politics because it's all related. Don't you see it, man!!!Iraqi oil, bad gas mileage, foreign contracts, US consumers......It's just one huge conspiracy between Mazda, the French, Saddam, Bush and Cheney, Russia, the 2000 election...it all ties together. You know how much petroleum it takes to manufacture those tires the Z's are chewing up?!?!? It's one big conspiracy!! And we're right in the middle of it all because we bought the car that doesn't get great gas mileage......we should file a class action lawsuit, but THEY will never let it happen. It's one big house of cards, and if we got some sharp attorney to unravel it all, the whole world would come crumbling down....the whole conspiracy would fall to pieces. Just ask Al Gore, he'll tell you the whole world power base is in on the RX8 oil consumption thing, and it's the same people that robbed him of the election. And all because of jealousy over the fact that he invented the internet!!

Don't think they're not watching you everytime you get in that car!! And you guys think it's just a navigation system in there - ha!!

Be afraid!! Be very afraid!!! Ah hah hah haaaa!!!!

RX-Dreamer

That article says less than 75%. The EPA Rating for the RX-8 City driving is 18MPG. 75% of that would be 13.5MPG I doubt anyone here gets less than that... Unless they're constantly redlining.