RX8 = Porsche Cayman @ 1/2 the Price
I know the RX8 is built to a price, but the car is as good as Mazda could make it at that price. They're not leaving any bits off to stop it competing with anything else. The Caymann's price, much like everyone else about it, is just supposed to be between two other figures.
The Cayman is just a filler that was detuned from its fullest potential. Some people like this, some dislike it - others just don't care.
Piston-free 07.11.2007
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My rich bosses buy Porsches, Mercedes' and Ferraris as status symbols. I highly doubt any of the old bastards ever push their cars past 70, and they most definitely do not squeal through the twisties.
From what I see, it helps them attract girls 20-30 years younger than them. Until the Viagra runs out.
From what I see, it helps them attract girls 20-30 years younger than them. Until the Viagra runs out.
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His complaint with the Boxster was it was people too poor for a 911, but I don't agree with that because no Boxster in any trim has the the potential to out-perform a 911. A Caymann S, however, does if they just used the rear end they use in the 911 (the marginal cost of making those on the assembly line is low, so don't try and tell me it would add to the price. The car is overpriced anyway). A Caymann S, which was released BEFORE the base Caymann, is more than a Boxster with a fixed roof - it's got a slightly larger engine as well, and therefore performs better... about halfway between the Boxster S and Carrera S, actually.
I know the RX8 is built to a price, but the car is as good as Mazda could make it at that price. They're not leaving any bits off to stop it competing with anything else. The Caymann's price, much like everyone else about it, is just supposed to be between two other figures.
I know the RX8 is built to a price, but the car is as good as Mazda could make it at that price. They're not leaving any bits off to stop it competing with anything else. The Caymann's price, much like everyone else about it, is just supposed to be between two other figures.
But you DO know that the Boxster and Cayman share the same engines, right? No idea where you got your "slightly larger engine" from.
I'll say it again...the Cayman is nothing more than a Boxster with a fixed roof. Why don't they throw in the LSD and larger 911 engines into a Boxster? Why didn't anyone complain about this before the Cayman came out?
This is like expecting BMW to make the Z4 M coupe much better than the Z4 M roadster. The only difference is the fixed roof. I bet if Porsche didn't give the Cayman it's own name, and just called it a Boxster coupe, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
The Cayman's MSRP is only $3000 more than a Boxster's. This is like the difference between an S2000 CR and normal S2000, not S2000 vs NSX or Porsche Cayman S vs 911 S (as you say).
Last edited by alexisthemovie; Mar 12, 2008 at 02:43 AM.
So lets assume that this is an intellecual discussion and that 95% of people thought the RX-8 was a disappointment. Then, please explain how it made the Car & Driver's 10-best list for three consecutive years, 2004-2006. And Car & Driver also "declared this the Best RX ever."
References:
2004 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_and...en_Best_Cars_4
2005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_and...en_Best_Cars_5
2006 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_and...en_Best_Cars_6
Best RX Ever http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/..._8_10best_cars
I think the word "disappointment" does not mean what you think it means.
Peace
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I'm a bit under 6' 1 and do not fit in an RX-8 with a sunroof - my head hits the roof. (For that matter, I had the same problem in a Gen III RX-7.)
I do fit in a Sport model without the sunroof, but then just barely.
Headroom isn't an issue for me in a Cayman.
It all depends on how you're built and whether you like to drive with the seat tilted way back.
I'm a bit under 6' 1 and do not fit in an RX-8 with a sunroof - my head hits the roof. (For that matter, I had the same problem in a Gen III RX-7.)
I do fit in a Sport model without the sunroof, but then just barely.
Headroom isn't an issue for me in a Cayman.
I'm a bit under 6' 1 and do not fit in an RX-8 with a sunroof - my head hits the roof. (For that matter, I had the same problem in a Gen III RX-7.)
I do fit in a Sport model without the sunroof, but then just barely.
Headroom isn't an issue for me in a Cayman.
Do you know if the seat in the Cayman is able to recline at all? If not, then I will most likely not fit. Either way, I am going to the Porsche dealer to find out!
Thanks for your input!
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I've known some Mazda dealers who've given better service than some Porsche dealers, but the experience of many here with their dealers is quite different (and horrific) indeed.
Frankly, one of the biggest differences between the two vehicles, other than handling (IMHO a stock 8 handles exceptionally well but nowhere near as well as a stock Boxster or Cayman) is the interior; Mazda really needs to upgrade the interior a bit. Better plastics, less cheesy faux chrome bits, and improved seats.
You can also get around 18 city, 27 highway from a Boxster S.
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It all depends on the individual dealership.
I've known some Mazda dealers who've given better service than some Porsche dealers, but the experience of many here with their dealers is quite different (and horrific) indeed.
Frankly, one of the biggest differences between the two vehicles, other than handling (IMHO a stock 8 handles exceptionally well but nowhere near as well as a stock Boxster or Cayman) is the interior; Mazda really needs to upgrade the interior a bit. Better plastics, less cheesy faux chrome bits, and improved seats.
You can also get around 18 city, 27 highway from a Boxster S.
I've known some Mazda dealers who've given better service than some Porsche dealers, but the experience of many here with their dealers is quite different (and horrific) indeed.
Frankly, one of the biggest differences between the two vehicles, other than handling (IMHO a stock 8 handles exceptionally well but nowhere near as well as a stock Boxster or Cayman) is the interior; Mazda really needs to upgrade the interior a bit. Better plastics, less cheesy faux chrome bits, and improved seats.
You can also get around 18 city, 27 highway from a Boxster S.
hadn't even thought about the gas miealge difference.
Before the release of the base Cayman and the 2007 update to the Boxster, the Cayman S flat-6 did have slightly more displacement and power.
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From: (swartsnegga state)
I would say, for the money of getting a porsche Cayman (which I'll never buy, I'd rather have a Cayman S, especially if im gonna shell out that much money)
you'd be cross shopping m3, 350zs and alot of other cars..........the rx8 is the cheapest.... and 20k is WAY large of a gap for cross-shopping
you'd be cross shopping m3, 350zs and alot of other cars..........the rx8 is the cheapest.... and 20k is WAY large of a gap for cross-shopping
For someone who always wished the Boxster had a hardtop cousin (beyond the Boxster's add-on hard top), the Cayman is very appealing to me; S-series of course. But I still have trouble justifying to myself the expense .
But I still have trouble justifying to myself the expense .
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From: (swartsnegga state)
umm.........The Cayman is a little more than a boxster with a fixed roof
for one thing, the frame is much much more rigid, making it out perform the boxster
and also, the Cayman S goes around the 'ring faster than a 911 Carerra....... so go figure
thirdly, with every other f'ing car out there, its moddable
www.caymanclub.net
the usual mods for them are 911 axles, differentials, etc
ofcourse, they are richer than us, so its like us saying, oh, intake and exhaust....
honestly, I really think that the RX-8 can never compare to the Cayman S.
1. educationed people who value their money will buy an RX-8 over a Cayman S and be happy with it
2. Educated people who value their money and STATUS will buy a Cayman S and be happy with it (Porsche > Mazda in the eyes of the elite)
3. Rich people who value their money will buy an RX-8 and be happy with it for weekend occasional fun.
4. Rich people who doesn't mind shellin out more money for a higher tier car will buy the Cayman S
5. UBER rich people will just buy a Lambo
funny, I find this thread like the Corvette vs F430 thread on the vette forum
I lol
personally, for 20,000$ you can get 350+whp stable + new rims, bodykit, paintjob
for one thing, the frame is much much more rigid, making it out perform the boxster
and also, the Cayman S goes around the 'ring faster than a 911 Carerra....... so go figure
thirdly, with every other f'ing car out there, its moddable
www.caymanclub.net
the usual mods for them are 911 axles, differentials, etc
ofcourse, they are richer than us, so its like us saying, oh, intake and exhaust....
honestly, I really think that the RX-8 can never compare to the Cayman S.
1. educationed people who value their money will buy an RX-8 over a Cayman S and be happy with it
2. Educated people who value their money and STATUS will buy a Cayman S and be happy with it (Porsche > Mazda in the eyes of the elite)
3. Rich people who value their money will buy an RX-8 and be happy with it for weekend occasional fun.
4. Rich people who doesn't mind shellin out more money for a higher tier car will buy the Cayman S
5. UBER rich people will just buy a Lambo
funny, I find this thread like the Corvette vs F430 thread on the vette forum
I lol
personally, for 20,000$ you can get 350+whp stable + new rims, bodykit, paintjob
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and because the other post is f'ing huge, here's a breakdown of RETAIL PRICE
1. RX-8: Base = 28,000$ firm
GT full package = 33,000$ firm
2. Cayman: Base = 50,000$ firm
S model = 60,000$ firm
(out the door retail 1st hand prices)
1. 2005 Cayman S 2nd hand price = 40,000 - 50,000$
2. 2005 RX-8 2nd hand price = 16,000 - 22,000$
(The resale value makes the difference "IN PRICE" highly visible)
1. 2008 Porsche Cayman S @ 295hp (stock) will cost 60,000$ with full warranty (4 years)
2. 2008 Mazda RX-8 @ 295WHP (modified, assume stable condition) will cost:
33,000$ (GT package, for comparison with "S" model) + Greddy Turbo kit (4,000$) + MM Greddy Turbo Rebuild (2,000$) + Transmission Maintainance (3,000$), no warranty (all items listed are to the closest average price, includes shipping, installation charges) TOTAL: 41,000$
as you can see, even with maintainance charges and costs, the RX-8, with pretty much the same performance as a Porsche Cayman S, will cost about 19,000$ less for at least 2-3 years.
the two cars will not cost the same (with the same performance) until 6+ years (assuming you do not sell the car).
however, if you do sell the car, consider the resale value, and you will quickly find the RX-8 to be roughly about the same (with depreciation) to the Cayman S
however, you will need to be significantly richer to buy a Porsche Cayman S in the first place, as to the Mazda RX-8
1. RX-8: Base = 28,000$ firm
GT full package = 33,000$ firm
2. Cayman: Base = 50,000$ firm
S model = 60,000$ firm
(out the door retail 1st hand prices)
1. 2005 Cayman S 2nd hand price = 40,000 - 50,000$
2. 2005 RX-8 2nd hand price = 16,000 - 22,000$
(The resale value makes the difference "IN PRICE" highly visible)
1. 2008 Porsche Cayman S @ 295hp (stock) will cost 60,000$ with full warranty (4 years)
2. 2008 Mazda RX-8 @ 295WHP (modified, assume stable condition) will cost:
33,000$ (GT package, for comparison with "S" model) + Greddy Turbo kit (4,000$) + MM Greddy Turbo Rebuild (2,000$) + Transmission Maintainance (3,000$), no warranty (all items listed are to the closest average price, includes shipping, installation charges) TOTAL: 41,000$
as you can see, even with maintainance charges and costs, the RX-8, with pretty much the same performance as a Porsche Cayman S, will cost about 19,000$ less for at least 2-3 years.
the two cars will not cost the same (with the same performance) until 6+ years (assuming you do not sell the car).
however, if you do sell the car, consider the resale value, and you will quickly find the RX-8 to be roughly about the same (with depreciation) to the Cayman S
however, you will need to be significantly richer to buy a Porsche Cayman S in the first place, as to the Mazda RX-8
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and because the other post is f'ing huge, here's a breakdown of RETAIL PRICE
1. RX-8: Base = 28,000$ firm
GT full package = 33,000$ firm
2. Cayman: Base = 50,000$ firm
S model = 60,000$ firm
(out the door retail 1st hand prices)
1. 2005 Cayman S 2nd hand price = 40,000 - 50,000$
2. 2005 RX-8 2nd hand price = 16,000 - 22,000$
(The resale value makes the difference "IN PRICE" highly visible)
1. 2008 Porsche Cayman S @ 295hp (stock) will cost 60,000$ with full warranty (4 years)
2. 2008 Mazda RX-8 @ 295WHP (modified, assume stable condition) will cost:
33,000$ (GT package, for comparison with "S" model) + Greddy Turbo kit (4,000$) + MM Greddy Turbo Rebuild (2,000$) + Transmission Maintainance (3,000$), no warranty (all items listed are to the closest average price, includes shipping, installation charges) TOTAL: 41,000$
as you can see, even with maintainance charges and costs, the RX-8, with pretty much the same performance as a Porsche Cayman S, will cost about 19,000$ less for at least 2-3 years.
the two cars will not cost the same (with the same performance) until 6+ years (assuming you do not sell the car).
however, if you do sell the car, consider the resale value, and you will quickly find the RX-8 to be roughly about the same (with depreciation) to the Cayman S
however, you will need to be significantly richer to buy a Porsche Cayman S in the first place, as to the Mazda RX-8
1. RX-8: Base = 28,000$ firm
GT full package = 33,000$ firm
2. Cayman: Base = 50,000$ firm
S model = 60,000$ firm
(out the door retail 1st hand prices)
1. 2005 Cayman S 2nd hand price = 40,000 - 50,000$
2. 2005 RX-8 2nd hand price = 16,000 - 22,000$
(The resale value makes the difference "IN PRICE" highly visible)
1. 2008 Porsche Cayman S @ 295hp (stock) will cost 60,000$ with full warranty (4 years)
2. 2008 Mazda RX-8 @ 295WHP (modified, assume stable condition) will cost:
33,000$ (GT package, for comparison with "S" model) + Greddy Turbo kit (4,000$) + MM Greddy Turbo Rebuild (2,000$) + Transmission Maintainance (3,000$), no warranty (all items listed are to the closest average price, includes shipping, installation charges) TOTAL: 41,000$
as you can see, even with maintainance charges and costs, the RX-8, with pretty much the same performance as a Porsche Cayman S, will cost about 19,000$ less for at least 2-3 years.
the two cars will not cost the same (with the same performance) until 6+ years (assuming you do not sell the car).
however, if you do sell the car, consider the resale value, and you will quickly find the RX-8 to be roughly about the same (with depreciation) to the Cayman S
however, you will need to be significantly richer to buy a Porsche Cayman S in the first place, as to the Mazda RX-8
And you will also loose your but trying to sell the turboed 8 vs the stock Porsche.
Last edited by Shoafb; Mar 12, 2008 at 03:58 PM.
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From: (swartsnegga state)
I have covered all of tha, duhhhhhh
rootski, what I meant by cannot compare means, they are totally different classes, as I have pointed out in my post,
the rx8 no doubt is the best bang for it's price, which I have already posted.
seriously, wtf
rootski, what I meant by cannot compare means, they are totally different classes, as I have pointed out in my post,
the rx8 no doubt is the best bang for it's price, which I have already posted.
seriously, wtf
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Seriously, on what planet?
The RX-8 handles very well, but nowhere near as well as a Cayman or Boxster, at least partially because of their mid-engine design.
I'm in no way knocking the 8, but it's more of a question of physics than anything else.
The RX-8 handles very well, but nowhere near as well as a Cayman or Boxster, at least partially because of their mid-engine design.
I'm in no way knocking the 8, but it's more of a question of physics than anything else.
Since the RX8 is front-midship, I don't think that's it. "Mid-engine" can be either the front or the back, it doesn't matter, it's having the engine far from the end of the car and reducing the polar moment of inertia that matters. Not saying the Cayman doesn't handle better... thats just not the reason.
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Hmmm, I said Mazda needed to work on the interior of the 8, and from this Mazda press release about the 8 facelift in Japan, it sounds like a substantial win should the "Type RS" come to America in some form:
Now if they've done something about the design of the front stack, which, while it looked neat in 2003, looks decidedly dated today.
Another interesting thing from that press release:
Why?
RECARO bucket seats (front)
The exclusively designed RX-8 seats have fabric center sections (a black and grey combination), black genuine leather side supports and are accentuated with red stitching. They offer first-rate body support.
- Leather-wrapped steering wheel, shift lever and hand brake (with red stitching)
The red stitching on the leather matches the exclusive bucket seats.
The exclusively designed RX-8 seats have fabric center sections (a black and grey combination), black genuine leather side supports and are accentuated with red stitching. They offer first-rate body support.
- Leather-wrapped steering wheel, shift lever and hand brake (with red stitching)
The red stitching on the leather matches the exclusive bucket seats.
Another interesting thing from that press release:
A five-speed manual transmission version of the RX-8 is due to go on sale in June 2008.
Last edited by BillK; Mar 12, 2008 at 06:12 PM.
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Since the RX8 is front-midship, I don't think that's it. "Mid-engine" can be either the front or the back, it doesn't matter, it's having the engine far from the end of the car and reducing the polar moment of inertia that matters. Not saying the Cayman doesn't handle better... thats just not the reason.