dragula53

I could go back and quote the posts where everybody is saying the Z is not a performance car, which is what prompted me to post.

Equal to the rx-8 does not make it a "not-performance" car.

Call the Z a heavy pig.. call it ugly.. subjective or debatable, but not false. but don't talk about how the rx-8 is more of a performance car than it is.

I have never driven either car on a track. But I do like to read about the rx-8. And 100% of the articles I have read, the rx-8 had a speed disadvantage, horsepower disadvantage, and when applicable, a disadvantage in lap times around whatever track they were racing on.

This isn't some place of dishonor that needs to be disputed tooth and nail. I don't drive my car on a track every day. The experience is far more important. The RX-8 is well mannered at it's limits. It performs to within a couple seconds of a 2 minute lap with esteemed company, but isn't nearly as harsh of a ride. It inspires confidence. I can go on. It is superior for a lot of reasons. And these are some of the reasons it gets picked as best.

I too saw the TOP GEAR video. And it is a ringing endorsement for the RX-8. The dude who drove it says "This is the best car I have ever driven". A slip of the tongue that he later tries to take back. But definitely something to think about. I won't bring up the old arguments about how top gear's methods for testing suck, because I don't really care. (Edit: I just saw the irony of this statement. But I really don't care.) Like I said, I love the car and the guy's description of how wonderful the drive was, while he was driving it, are exactly how I feel when I drive an RX-8.

I have driven both cars. I far prefer the RX-8. But don't just passionately make blanket statements that aren't true.

I'm just trying to stay reasonable. It is hard to disagree with numbers. But I found myself going "Wow. Wow. Wow." in the rx-8. Nothing of the like in any car before or since.

zevans

Don't they just tell you about max lateral g once the car has taken a set? So, it tells you how fast they'll get through a sweeper, but not much else.

What about turn-in, power delivery and linearity, placeability, balance - all these are MORE important than how well the tyres grip. Think of gravel / snow rally stages... skidpans not relevant at all there and yet the handling of the car is of the UTMOST importance to results.

The Z has more grunt, but driving it through twisties you can feel the extra weight, and it also seemed to me it was the flat-ride stuff doing most of the work. The 8 handles impeccably even with DSC switched off - not at all convinced the Z would.

At most there's 1-2 percent in it... which seems to stack up with the Top Gear and Best Motoring laps. So the 8 is 99% as good as track car - and it has four seats and a real boot and a much nicer interior, it's a more involving drive, and it's got a much higher redline (=more fun.)

That's why I bought the 8, having driven both, and anyone who prefers the Z because it higher BHP is frankly an idiot and knows nothing about performance driving.

As someone else has already pointed out, THE road-legal track car, the Elise (and for that matter the Exige) has stats that look much more like the 8 than the Z.

dragula53

Agreed. on all of your points. I have even seen, on occasion, a car with a higher skidpad running a slower slalom.

skidpad is an indicator but it isn't the end-all and be-all.

The lotus elise pulls a whopping 1.05g on the skidpad. That might not be the whole reason it is a track-ready road car, but it is a pretty serious indication that it is a car not to be trifled with.

9100RPM

dragula53
Yes I saw that DVD too!
You guys are so obsessed with your cars that you don't face facts; the 350Z is a better driver's car.
The RX-8 needs more power and TORQUE, that's the feeling when you floor a car and it responds instantly...something an RX-8 is not able to do..to make them work you must change down and rev.

By the way truemagellan (old friend again) your bike has an enormous torque to weight ratio or can't you do the maths (sorry math you yankers are so funny).

I wonder if you knew that the RX-8 is such a pretty car that it was voted number 2 (after the Audi TT) as the gayest car on the planet.
I still love them but they are GAY and before anyone says it I'm definitely NOT. 9100RPM

zevans

I disagree - The Z is not as INVOLVING which is what makes a better driver's car, irrespective of horses or lb-ft. I refer you once again to the Lotuses.

Power and torque make drag cars, they don't make drivers' cars.

I know what torque is, thank you, my 300ZX was pushing out well over 300lb-ft, and I'm afraid the 8 is the vastly better of two and isn't that much slower thanks to the considerably shorter gearing and lower weight.

The torque IS there instantly in the 8 and it does respond instantly - it's NOT there instantly in FI cars. You're arguing that it doesn't have any go at the bottom of 6th gear - well, the 300 was useless until 3500 revs or so too. In performance driving you SHOULD be changing gear to stay in the power, so I don't see why this is relevant in any case.

Er, how does it get to 60 in 6 seconds then?

No ****, sherlock. That's called "driving" and you have to do that in any car. If if the ENGINE has torque from 2000 revs (and fair enough, the 350 does) you will STILL have 20-25% extra torque at the same revs if you drop a gear.

Correct. An argument for buying the 8 then, which is astoundingly light for a modern coupe, especially one with such a stiff chassis.

Lovely to hear that. (I hate TTs with a passion, by the way. :D )

louis1128

hahaha. great story

magixpuma

Every1 on this board is so awesome WTF IS YOUR PROBLEMS cant we just enjoy our 8's no matter what. I love my rexxy shes all like prr prr rreeeeVVVVVV!!!!!! then engine brake omg is a boeing flying over us. lol you guys are funny., bye

Luftwaffle

This thread is hilarious. Seriously, the title should be changed to "RX-8 vs. 350Z."

Just two things:

The Top Gear thing with the M3, 350Z and RX-8 times being the same. The M3 was timed on a wet track.

Jeremy Clarkson said, "Of all the cars I have driven this year, this one is the best." He later retracted that statement and mentioned that the tires felt "skittish in the rain." So, it wasn't a direct statement toward the car itself, but the tires. I think he was on the Dunlops at the time of the review; currently, we get the Bridgestone Potenzas which I haven't had any issues with in the wet.

dragula53

Yeah, what Luftwaffle said that the guy said.
I knew it was something like that .
And the rainy thing with the M3 was the issue I wasn't going to mention.
All of this just means that the RX-8 isn't as fast as everybody wants it to be. Which is odd, because it is such a great car, and even being slightly slower, everybody who reviews it likes it better.
But people in this community insist that it is really and truly faster than it is. Which is what made me want to gag in the first place.

Moo

shaolin

You have one of the worst attitudes I've seen on this board. And sadly, you seem to know very little about cars and driving in general. Nobody ever said the car was faster than it was, but what people ARE saying is that it deserves some respect and credit.

Why don't you just sell your car and quit coming here to whine?

Spin9k

The antagonists in this silly thread say the RX-8 isn't "a performance car".

LOL, so you guys say to us 8 owners - for example, if a car in a race on a video, or live on a track... after thrashing each other around and around for a while, comes out some few moments later than another at the end, then it isn't "a performance car"?

LOL, so you guys say in a drag race between the 8 and a 350Z, or any other car - for example, the 8 is a a few moments behind, then it's not "a performance car"?

Certainly sounds like a slippery slope you've got the whole of the world's automobiles on - where does a performance car stop... and where does a 'non-performance car" start? If only the "winner" in any particular situation is a "performance car" I guess all those "other" F1 cars out there other than Schumacher’s are just some "non-performance car" pasttime for their racing team! LOL

jtimbck2

The 350Z/fairlady is a Japanese "muscle car". Nothing more, nothing less.

silver1.3

I dont even need to read the whole 5 or so pages to know that this is right on target - it says puts it all in perspective.

Jarred

Same times on the track compared to the Z with the same driver tells me that the 8 outhandles the Z, even with 4 seats. Becasue in a straight line the Z is faster.

Kudos to MAzda for making a great handling car, and if people wanna believe it's not a performance car....let them. I really do'nt care.

TORacing

When I pull up in my 8, I was allowed to test drive a 350z and evo by myself and I was only 16 (now 17). It's amazing when they saw the 8 I think it excited them more and they didn't care about my age they wanted a sell. But I still like the 8 the most!

spork

I don't really think that many people believe the car is quite THAT fast. Personally I don't think my car can beat an M3 though the driver did pull the same time in the Top Gear video. In fact I'm pretty sure the only way I could beat an M3 is if the driver of the M3 was really bad. I'm not convinced my car is faster than many of the sporty performance cars out there (EVO, WRX/STi, Z, G35, etc). In fact, I doubt it personally. (Unless you're talking about a very twisty track).

I do know that my car isn't slow and shouldn't be called not a high performance car though (if the Z is a high performance car, the 8 is also. if the Z isn't, then the 8 probably isn't either). I do notice that a lot of people get overly defensive when it comes to the subject though and it does bug me too. I'm not even sure why some people start taking such stances either. Like the guy who keeps on insisting that his automatic transmission 8 will beat manual transmission 8s.

dragula53

I agree with you completely. I'd consider all of the cars mentioned in this thread to be mid-price mid-performance vehicles.

There are cars out there where an automatic can keep up with/beat/run more consistently than manual transmission... A good example is the 300zx. even down 20 horsepower, the automatic 300zx kept up with and ran more consistently fast than the 5-speed. However (and unfortunately), the rx-8 is not like this. It is still quite probably exceptionally tossable and fun, as there is something more to having an '8 than clutch destruction.

And I'm glad that this forum has reasonable folks around. I was beginning to lose hope.

Fanman

Depends on your definition of "driver's car." Is you definition all hp & torque ? 1/4 mi. time ? Is it handling & balance ? Personally your statement is the farthest from the truth. I have had Mustangs with 300+ lb.-ft. of torque yet the interior,brake, handling, balance, cornering were crap. Did I mention it was 400+ lbs. heavier than my current RX8 & the shifter was garbage. In an ideal world they would turbo a stock RX8, but even now it has an outstanding chassis, revs to 9000 RPM, and has one of the best shifters on the planet. It's really like the argument that Road & Track had about the S2000 vs. the 350 Z. One is a "pure" sports car, the other is a Japanese "muscle car. The RX8 gives us the conveniece of 4 seats (which the other 2 do not) but gives us much of the performance, & thrills of the other 2. If engine is all you worry about then you are better off with a Mustang, or a GTO. But that never in my mind constitutes a "driver's car."

czr

iTrader: (3)

BINGO!

9100RPM

CZR
Absolutely correct...Yank cars are flacid. These are many fast straight line cars dependent upon hugh horsepower figures. The fact that they can go around corners is really dependent upon a driver's bravery or stupidity. Yank cars should not be called cars they
are a means of AtoB transport!

Anyone one who disagrees hasn't driven a WRX, 350Z, RX-8, M3, Boxter, Z4....I have driven all of them, and all of them on a racetrack at a NO speed limit day! Ah heaven! 9100RPM

dragula53

Because the corvette and viper can't handle.

Spare me.

Jaisin

I shouldn't have said my age. No big deal though. I'll ask my dad to take me. I'm really short so they might not think I am older.

Gambit

your age is on your liscense...they can find out

Fanman

I've driven an STI, 350Z Track, RX8, M3, Boxster S, S2000, and my old car was a 911 Carrera (w/ factory stage 1 sports suspension) at Streets of Willow & Button Willow. You have no idea what you are talking about if you think the 350 Z is a "drivers car" and an RX8 is not. Probably the closest to a race car was the S2000. The most fun to drive was my 911 (I had I/H/E & chip on it). The most balanced was the Boxster S

Jaisin

Ya, I know. But the lady was going to let me even when I told her I wa 16. I think she just assumed that if I could drive the 8, it would be okay to do the Z.