ACRX8

Any thoughts on how the RX-8 will handle in the snow?

Owners on the 350Z forum stated that the 350Z is the worst handling car in the snow.

I would like your thoughts on how you expect the RX-8 to handle in the snow.

RXhusker

With traction control, a few sandbags and Blizzaks the RX-8 will be fine in snow and ice. Turn off the traction control and much fun will be had :D

My 1st gen RX-7 was great in snow and I expect the same from the 8. Had my RX for 4 years at Univ. of Colorado -- skiing, etc and never once had a problem -- the 2 guys piled in the hatch all the way to Vail probably helped the traction:D

ACRX8

That's good to hear because it will be my only car!

wakeech

yeah, it does have DSC, and the 350Z has a 6% difference in mass between the front and back wheels (by load), which is like 400lbs or something (i calc'd it a long time ago)

with the 8's better balance, and DSC, and TSC and lighter mass, with the right tyres (a narrower tyre would help a lot here), it shouldn't be too bad.

atr_hugo

Odd, I drove a 350Z in light snow in some hilly conditions and didn't have a lick of trouble with it even with the summer tires on it. I thought it did real well.

My Miata on the other hand is a complete mess in snow and ice with the summer tires. But when you put 4 snow tires on it(Blizzack WS50s), it's the best car I've ever driven in plowed snow or ice.

I'd suspect that the RX-8 will be just fine as long as you put snows on it. (Finding 18" snow tires may be another question however ;-).

RXhusker

I plan on getting 17" -- narrower Blizzaks - these things are magic - make your RWD car drive like 4WD in the snow and ice. My RWD Volvo with Blizzaks goes as well as my Explorer in 4WD -- no Blizzaks and you just sit and spin.

Buger

My RX-8 with DSC will handle much better in the snow than my 2nd gen RX-7 and that is what is important to me. Torsen LSDs and [edit] DSC are a perfect combination. Of course people who currently drive fwd/awd cars might have a different perspective.

I believe the 350z has a viscous LSD and it should also have DSC and EBD although under different names. Viscous LSDs and [edit] DSC are not the same match that Torsen LSDs and [edit] DSC are. The wider tires and 53:47 front/rear weight ratio of the 350z may have been designed for better acceleration but would probably be a detriment in the snow. I think that the 350z probably handles better than my RX-7 in the snow but perhaps the people on their forum that were complaining were used to driving fwd/awd cars?

ggreen29

What's EBD? My guess would be Electronic Blizzard Detector, but that's just a guess.

Buger

Hi Ggreen29,

EBD is electronic brakeforce distribution. I originally thought that it was how the DSC (dynamic stability control) distributed brakeforce to the wheel/tire that was slipping but I found out that wasn't the case. :D ( I edited my above post)

It appears that EBD determines how much braking force to apply to the front or rear brakes to provide optimum stopping performance. The front brakes apply more force since they are larger and more weight is on the front during braking. EBD determines how much force to apply to the rear brakes so that neither lock up.

The RX-8's DSC will work perfectly with it's Torsen in the snow.

Brian

eccles

I'm sure the DSC and traction control will help a great deal, but I would suspect that sandbags will be counterproductive.

This question comes up every year on the Miata mailing list, and the general consensus is that sandbags in the trunk of a Miata do more to upset the handling than they do to assist the traction. Since the Miata's 50-50 weight balance is the same as the RX-8, I would expect similar results. Sandbags are more useful when the car is naturally nose-heavy.

atr_hugo

Have a friend that would put sand and a printer's tabletop (thick steel for type setting, IIRC) into his wife's Olds Cutlass (late '70s RWD). Watching him physically pick up that 200+ lb tabletop and manuver it into the trunk was an amazing sight!

RXhusker

You are probably right for the RX-8 -- but they sure do make a big difference in my Volvo -- getting some weight down on the rear wheels really seems to help.

Fëakhelek

Using sandbags has nothing to do with the weight distribution. Of course they don't help on the Miata: It is Front Wheel Drive. The extra weight is to provide more traction by producing greater downforce on the Drive Wheels. The RX-8 is Rear Wheel Drive and will certainly benefit from extra weight in the back.

chenpin

i thought miata was rear wheel drive.....

Fëakhelek

Oops. My mistake. I knew better than to say that. Don't know what I was thinking. Please disregard my comments. However, I still stand behind the statement that weight in the back is to add traction to the drive wheels and not to change weight distribution.

KKMmaniac

I'm not about to get a third car, and I'm sure not gonna drive my (so far) rust free '85 RX-7 in the Winter, so I'll be driving the RX-8. I'll miss the all-wheel drive of my WRX, but I also think the RX-8 will handle well in the snow. I don't recall having any trouble the two winters I drove my '79 1st gen. rx-7, (with four of the cheapest, ugliest, radial snow tires ever seen) but I didn't have the commute in heavy traffic back then.

The 50-50 weight bias and limited slip should make the handling pretty neutral, and with 215/55-17 Blizzaks anyway; the traction pretty good. I hope I don't regret not getting the DSC and traction control though.

I certainly empathize with Fëakhelek's comment in another thread about the salt used on the roads in some states though. I am guilty of coming into work in the morning, rantin' and a ravin' about MnDot's road crews indiscriminately dumping a quarter-inch of salt on on the roads, just because the Weather Guessing Service mentioned they had a feeling, conditions could be right for the possibility of snow. (two years ago, St. Paul ran out of salt from their ludicrous overuse early in the season, and had to buy some from Minneapolis. I laughed.)

I think cars in general have better corrosion resistance than they did fifteen years ago, and although I (or the car) won't be liking it, I'll be driving in that salt crap. The key to minimizing rust is to rinse often, (especially underneath) don't let the carpet get soaked with salty water from your feet, and try to keep bare metal from being exposed to the brine. (yeah, good luck, as the sand and salt chunks conspire to erode the paint) And although I don't generally believe in bras (for cars as well as...uhhh, sorry) because people tend to leave them on at all times, causing more damage to the paint, I may consider putting one on the RX-8.

miztic

Unless you are adding/removing weight at the car's center of gravity it WILL change the weight distribution, there is nothing you can do about that...

wakeech

i believe Feakhelek means to say the principle reason for adding the mass over the wheels is to increase the force upon them, as opposed to balancing the car in a different way (i'm positive that) he's not disputing the fact that it would unbalance the car and add a whole lot of mass...

miztic

You're right It makes more sense to read his statement that way, don't mind me

MikeW

Adding extra weight via sandbags will not change the acceleration potential of the car in the winter. The sandbags will (marginally) increase contact pressure,[better to use narrower tires in the snow] and if you get stuck, the sandbags can provide a traction material for extracting yourself.

jonalan

Question: Are Blizzaks snow tires or winter tires (or is that a redundant question)?

How are they on dry pavement on those 40 out of 45 days it doesn't snow in the winter (at least in my neck of the woods)?

ACRX8

I sent Mazda an email asking them about the RX-8 in the snow.

His answer:

Hello Anthony,

Mazda has not done any driving test on the snow. The driveability of the vehicle in the snow has so many factors that goes into it, Mazda does not make opinions on the driveability. Usually, we leave it upto many automobile magazines to test drive our vehicle and make their own opinions.


Regards,

*******
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business

Sputnik

Well, whether they were testing drivability or survivability or whatever, some of the earliest spy shots show an RX8 being driven in snow.

---jps

atr_hugo

Blizzaks are snow tires, they have the mountain and snowflake symbol on them. They are speciffically designed to handle snow and ice. The WS50s on my Miata are optimized for ice, since we get more ice in KC than snow. There are other snow tires that are optimized for snow. They should not be confused with all season tires.

As to how they do in the dry; the WS50s stink in the dry. Oh well...

jbebernes

I would classify Blizzaks (and their close competitors) as winter tires, not snow tires. Snows, to me, are tires with deep lugs (tread) to be used in deeper snow. Winter tires, a relatively new development, rely on "microcells" in the rubber compound itself to provide better grip on ice and packed snow. They work better on dry pavement than snows, but wear faster than even your summer tires, so only keep them on your car during the worst weather months.