RedRX

No flames intended here, but am I supposed to be impressed by a 6 speed RX8 out accelerating an automatic G35? How about comparing the 6 speed RX8 to the 6 speed G35. Or better yet, compare the 6 speed RX8 to the 5 speed V6 _Altima_. Or the automatic RX8 to the Auto G35 or auto Altima. I think we will all see that those cars compare quite favorably to the RX8.

Plus, in terms of acceleration, Altima versus RX8, guess what. Better driver will probably win. Frankly, I think that's just sad. One of the mags recently tested the Altima at 5.99 seconds 0-60 and 97-99 mph in the 1/4. The New V6 Accord is also fast. 350Zs run the quarter at 102 mph. Maybe I'm wrong, but as I've said before, I don't see the RX8 bettering 100 mph in the 1/4. Need I even mention the $19,000 Neon SRT or the $33K SVT Mustang Cobra with it's built motor, six speed tranny, and fully independent suspension? Ugh.

My point is that the bar has been raised. Many cars these days offer a lot of power at a reasonable price. And I'm not even talking about "sports cars". An Altima for crying out loud? IMO, Mazda is just _barely_ keeping up with the competition in terms of acceleration. Maybe this is one reason why a number of individuals seem to be down on the RX8.

I realize that the original comparison was prepared by Buger to illustrate that low tq <> bad acceleration. It's not the lack of TQ that concerns me. It's the mediocre weight to hp ratio. And all the calcs in the world aren't going to change that fact.

With the RX8 you'd better think twice about who you're racing at the strip, especially if it's an Altima

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

anyone who thinks they can take a RX-8 or a S2000 to the quarter mile and expect to somehow dominate is a dumbass

Buger

Hi InfinitePat,

I wasn't trying to bag on the Infiniti. I think it is a very cool car but I wanted to post something about the "torque" issue since a lot of people are not informed about it.

I'm at work now but I'll probably post more stuff about this tomorrow morning. I ran the speed/time graph earlier this morning and from what I remember, the rx-8 was always ahead. A picture of the speed/time graph itself isn't very useful because you just see two diagonal jagged lines. I'll email you a jpg of it if you want.

It will be useful to post a g-force graph for more than 1 gear however. The acceleration of the G35 and RX-8 will not exactly match my earlier posted graph because of stuff like wheel slip, etc. I'll post a g-force graph of the 2 cars from approx 0 - 100 mph though. That would give a better indication of acceleration during every day driving. We should not be going faster than 100 on public roads yes?

Any car will not have as much torque in a higher gear than in a lower one. An Integra can probably beat a Testarossa from 20-50 if the Testarossa was in 5th gear. I'm not sure how much it would prove though. If you think that the rx-8 will be weak at lower rpms, you might want to look at a comparison of the RX-8 torque curve and the S2000 one. I think I'll post an overlay of the RX-8 and S2000 torque curves tomorrow too.

Of course there are many other things that need to be tested and felt while actually driving the car. Unfortunately the RX-8 isn't out yet and only a select few will get the chance to drive one in the next few months (Lucky Dan!).

Don't take this stuff too seriously, if your car doesn't end up faster
than the RX-8. There are many cars that the lower spec G35 can beat and there are many cars that will beat the RX-8. Be happy.

Brian

Buger

Hi Robert,

You might not have noticed but I did use the 1.645 3rd gear in my last cartest thing. It doesn't affect the 0-60 times at all since 2nd gear will go a bit higher than 60 mph. It does affect the 1/4 mile time and speed a little bit though.

Brian

Buger

Like I mentioned earlier, I wasn't trying to bag on the Infiniti. I think it is a very cool car but I wanted to post something about the "torque" issue since a lot of people are not informed about it.

A comparison with the 6-spd G35 would be more interesting and I'm sure you read the part of my post where I said A 5-speed Altima is another good comparison to do. Perhaps if any other people have Cartest2000, I can give you the customized RX-8 parameters that I am using and some other comparisons can be done a little quicker. I do have the time constraints of having work, family and other interests.

As it is, I wasn't trying to start a flame war about how this car is better than that or anything. I also wasn't trying to impress anybody that is already aware of the effects of weight, torque, gearing, tire size, etc. If straight line speed were the only variable in somebody's decision process, let's be clear that there are faster cars that can be had for less money. The Dodge Neon SRT immediately comes to mind if you want one.

The RX-8 will not get as much fanfare as the 350z but it will not really matter too much. I believe the 626 in it's worst year in the US still did a lot more volume than the 350z is going to ever do. Hopefully the next RX-7 does come along soon. Until it does, we shouldn't bag on the RX-8 for not being like it's older sibling.

Brian

RedRX

Good, so we're in agreement. The RX8's acceleration performance is mediocre.

Additionally, I don't recall saying anything about expecting the RX8 to "dominate" at the strip. I merely said that its acceleration performance is comparable to that of an Altima, which I think is unfortunate. I also implied that this fact may negatively impact people's perception of the RX8, and thus sales.

I think we all understand that the RX8 is not going to dominate at the strip.

rotisserie

I say we all relax and wait til the RX-8 comes. Only then we'll know what its capable of. Because right now all we're running off is speculation.

RedRX

Brian -- yeah, I never intended to bag on the RX-8. I think it's an interesting car, to say the least. I will admit, however, that I am somewhat disappointed with it's straight-line performance, at least based on the assumptions I can make given the information that's currently available.

Unfotunately, acceleration metrics are important to US buyers -- maybe more important than they really should be. If that weren't true, we probably wouldn't be having a 9 page discussion about why lots of TQ isn't necessary for strong acceleration.

I do, however, realize that the RX-8, in ways, is more like the first and second gen RX7s than the thirds -- and that the first and second gens were actually popular and profitable cars for Mazda. So I definitely see merit in the design. It's just that, most likely, an MPS RX8 will better suit my tastes.

Hercules

I wouldn't say mediocre. It's up to par.

Look at the BMW 330. It's getting to 60 in 6 seconds AFTER Car and Driver tested it. It was released with a 0-60 time over 6 seconds from BMW.

My guess is that the RX-8 will reach 60 in 6 seconds from Mazda, and after it goes thru the paces with Car and Driver probably wind up at 5.8. Not too shabby.

Besides, and I've said this before, if you are going to take this car straight line racing and expect to win, yes, you are a freaking moron. 350Z will eat you for lunch.

However take the 350Z to the track and race it, you know.. the tracks with TURNS in them. Two equal drivers in each car... I'll put my money on the RX-8.

MikeW

Using 804 revs per mile (Potenza S-03) for 225/45 18 tires and the US gearing

The estimated mph/rpm for shifting
1-2 40 mph/9000 rpms
2-3 67 mph/9050
3-4 95 mph/9350 US gearing// 100 mph/9150 Japanese
4-5 131mph/9250
5-6 151mph/9000
6 155 (250 kph) 7800

It looks like 3rd gear cold be 'extended' to 100 if you were able to rev to 9850 rpms. I wonder if that is for drag racing, 1/4 perhaps

rotisserie

officially whats the rev limiter going to be? I know redline is at 9.

ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM! :p

Hercules

I believe the fuel cuts off at 9500, so that should be it.

Boowana has said this engine will reliably spin to 12k, so I won't worry bout overrevving

5.0THIS

Hey Buger, when you get your shiny new RX8 lets race! I live in Louisville up near Boulder. My torque apparently wont be doing much for me according to this thread, and my car being so much heavier than an RX8 should negate any horsepower advantage I might have! Oh goodie, this will be fun! I'll probably lose but it's not often I can keep up with Japan's latest and greatest

pmacwill

3 things:

1) longest thread ever!
I think at 136 posts and counting we have a winner

2) There are way too many cars out there with way too much horsepower. It has indeed become a numbers game, much like someone made the great reference to the AMD vs Intel.

3) I build my own AMD machines, my parents buy Dells (Intel) and they both work great. Mine beats theres in some benchmarks even though the clock speed numbers would indicate it shouldn't. Their cpu wins in others.

4) ok 4 things. I went to Brown's Fairfax Mazda today in Fairfax, VA and gave them a non-refundable (but transferable - hi ebay) $1000 deposit for my sunlight silver with black/red $33,100:D stock number 0001 (their first order) I was told to expect it in by late june.

rotisserie

9500 fuel cut off I think I'm in love:D . I wish we had the compression ratios already.

I don't think 5.0THIS likes us

Can you say Apex?

5.0THIS

I'm just givin you guys ****, I have no problem with any of you I will race any of you with my Grand-Am! Muahahahahaah! :D

Hercules

Get on a real track with me and I'll school ya and that 5.0

Torque won't mean much when your heavy boat is leaning side to side on each turn and the rear end slippage has no control because the suspension sucks...

Like they say, beauty lies in the eye of the beholder... even the beauty of the ride in the RX-8.

rotisserie

I drive a Pontiac too. Its a 97 Sunfire Gt. Sadly its the fastest thing I've ever driven. I love it though. But that is all gonna change in september :D

Niebla

I think that the 330i 5 speed should be the benchmark for a 4 door sports sedan, so please do the graph etc of the 330i against the RX-8 that will give us a better idea.

Thanks for your hard work.

P00Man

hahahahahahahahahahahhahahHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHahhaha hahaahahahahahahahahahhaahhaahhahHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahhahahahahahAHHAHAHAH AAHAHahahahahah you gotta be kidding me HAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhAhAhAhAhAH AhAhAhAAHAHhAhHAaABHHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahhahaah
________
Rhode island marijuana dispensary

Quick_lude

Please stop wasting bandwith with such nosensical posts.. at least tell us what/whom you are laughing at.. sheesh..

5.0THIS

Guess again bud.... I dont own a 5.0, perhaps one of their competitors you'd say. And BTW, name the track bud! I have 3 years road course racing experience, and currently race oval track. Hope you're quick in the turns if you're gonna be schooling me around the track. My car only dynoes 291rwhp, 330rwtq, (about 335 flywheel hp, 385 flywheel torque) so I'm sure your RX8 far outpowers me!

rotisserie

what car do you have 5.0THIS? And do you guys think we're gonna get strong aftermarket support for modding our cars?

Buger

Hi RedRX,

You are absolutely right that acceleration metrics probably plays an overly important part in US buyers decisions. One of the main reasons is the (relatively) cheap gas that we pay compared to the rest of the world. The Nissan VQ engine is a great engine and Nissan is smart to use it in as many vehicles as they can.

Car performance is more than just acceleration though. Assuming that people start their cars when they aren't moving and turn their cars off when they aren't moving, we can see that braking is just as important as acceleration. It is probably more important because better braking will save from an accident more than better acceleration. Any Miata owner can probably tell you about handling performance counts as well. A quick comparison of the 350z and the RX-8 performance?

Acceleration: . 350z
Braking: ........ RX-8
Handling: ...... RX-8

The bracing of the "freestyle" doors added a lot of weight to the RX-8 so the acceleration will not match the 350z. An Altima might have acceleration similar to the RX-8 but has nowhere near the braking and handling performance.

Insurance ratings for the RX-8 should be great too because of the 4 doors, great preliminary crash results, airbags, DSC, etc.

Brian

Buger

Hi 5.0THIS,

I'm not a racer guy and I won't have my RX-8 for awhile since I'm trying to hold out for S-plan pricing.

If you have a 5.0, then you must be talking about straight line performance? If you are talking about handling/autox stuff, you should try driving an RX-8 or Miata. Acceleration : price ratio is the Mustangs forte (since the camaros are gone at least ) and handling : price is more of Mazda's forte.

Brian