artmt

PART ONE: RX-8

I am a big fan of Mazda sports cars. I have owned and loved a Miata and an RX-7. I also think MX-6 was the nicest sporty car of its kind; MX-3 V6 was a great car too.

I was following the RX-8 story since last summer and even after reading about the power issue I was still certain I would love the car.

Two days ago I finally drove it and was somewhat disappointed.
The lack of power is evident. What makes it especially painful is that the power drops right where you expect the sweet spot to be, and the fact that the rest of the driving dynamics (except for the lack of low-end torque) feels so good, makes this deficiency stand out even more.
Don’t get me wrong. To me power in itself is not very important. I was quite happy with HP in my Miata. Miata just didn’t feel like it is missing any. Unfortunately this car does. It just feels inadequate for this particular car, and to me this feeling that something is not right screws up the whole experience.
I feel bad for Mazda engineers. You can tell people put their heart and soul into this car … and then Mazda screwed it all up.

I didn’t like the Bose at all. The RX-7’s was much better.
I also was expecting the interior to be nicer. It is not bad, except for some cheap pieces here and there, but somehow the very plain interior in my BMW feels nicer. Again, it is not bad, better than any other Mazda, but based on what I have read my expectations were somewhat higher. The seats are great, very comfortable and the cloth looks very nice, I liked it better than leather.


PART TWO: IS300

Being certain that I would love the 8, I did not have any other cars on my shopping list. My wife convinced me to drive an IS 300. I never liked any Toyota products, but what a pleasant surprise this was!
The car feels a lot like my BMW – as solid and precise - but lighter. Even the manual transmission didn’t feel like an afterthought that it is. Of course the handling is not as crisp as the 8, the tall center of gravity and front bias are evident, but as far as sport sedans go to me this car felt more “correct” than any other that I have driven.
My only complaint with this car is that being a Lexus it felt somewhat subdued, but this should be easily fixable with a few simple mods.


PART THREE: Conclusion

Since I had very high expectations of the 8 and low expectations of the Lexus, I am questioning my initial impressions and will drive both cars again.

Another reason why Lexus looks appealing is that I can buy it used and sell it in year without taking a big depreciation hit. In the meanwhile I can watch what happens to the 8, and consider an Alfa when and if it finally makes it to our shores.


Comments and opinions are welcome.

Art

scorp76

Your loss; go with the Toyota.

Theyre only selling about 900 a month so theyll probably be giving them away.

lurcher

Yes certainly try an Alfa as well if you can, I guess they are pretty rare over there. They've been really on the ball with their more sporty numbers recently.

edit, adding: And I would agree about the MX-5/Miata. It may be basic and not have oodles of power but it always feels just right. Can't be faulted. (Except I feel the need for a bigger car now )

1SICKLEX

atmat, check out www.seloc.net or www.clublexus.com for more on the IS 300 and owners reviews/modifications.

Zonker04

Seems to me that your perceptions of interior build quality and acceleration are highly subjective. I find them both excellent, but I'm not the one car-shopping right now. Buy what feels right to you.

P.S. I would try not to judge a car based upon its stereo. Those are pretty easy to replace, especially on the base or sport RX-8. I don't think of the stereo as an inherent part of the car.

rxeightr

Sorry to hear you didn't fully enjoy your RX-8 test drive.

After 3 months of ownership I am even more impressed than the day I test drove mine. Enjoy whatever you find that suits your tastes.

newport8

A lot of people said similar things about the Honda S2000 when it first came out. I think what it boils down to is that most people want torque, not horsepower, and not knowing the difference, their expectations are fooled by the HP number. It seems like most people want to get power from idle "off the line", and are not interested (or uncomfortable) in working the engine up to higher RPMs.

Personally, I prefer cars like the RX-8 or the S2000. It allows me to drive like it's an everyday car by keeping RPMs low, but when I want the power, I can access it by playing in the high rev powerband.

javahut

You're crazy. The Miata has enough power to feel "just right", but the RX-8's "lack of power is immediately evident"? The previous poster was right... your impressions are highly subjective.

(excuse my bluntness... not in a good mood today)

ozbot87

You should listen to my car stereo, it'll make the Bose system seem like a godsend.;:D

blizz81

You weren't displeased with the power output of the IS300? It may be a smooth runner but I think with its power output it could shed a couple hundred pounds.

Keep in mind that people are working on the 8's ECU mappings to counter-attack the pig-rich conditions that may have been the culprit for what you felt at the top-end.

Just some food for thought. I agree that depreciation (as well as service) should be better on the Lexus. Considering that you're thinking of buying a used one and dumping it after a year, that changes things quite a bit compared to my kind of views (so you may not be willing to wait for a revamped ECU for the 8)...although a base 6MT 8 could be found for a couple thousand less, maybe negating that depreciation factor.

8nomo

Buy a Z

rx8racer

I agree.....Z.

RXGr8

I used to drive an IS300 for 3 years and I really liked it, but I felt disappointed that it seemed sluggish. Every time I brought it in for service and took out a loaner IS300, they seemed so much more peppy than mine. It was the first year model with the automatic. For me, the RX-8 is much nicer all around than the IS300. The suspension is so much nicer on my back, it handles curves better, accelerates better, and feels smoother all around. And the Bose stereo is much crisper and cleaner than the IS300. Not that the IS300 is bad, but this is just my impression. I like both cars, but I guess once a person gets used to the same car year after year, a new car sometimes feels better, no matter what it is.

To each, his own.

DefBringer

artmt,

as a long-time Mazda/rotary fan I agree completely with your review.

Unfortunately, some people are so devout in their love for Mazda that they cannot accept or face the fact that the RX-8 is not quite the success it should have been. A sales failure? It's too early to say. But as word of this 16mpg business gets out, that is not going to help sales figures at all. I really would like to ask rotary fans how they can possibly be fans of an engine that has less torque, gets worse gas mileage, and drinks more oil than your garden variety V6 built by Nissan.

Ecu flash or not, the car is simply underpowered. Gotta give credit to Mazda for trying something new, but when a simple turbo 4 banger is making more power than a new revolutionary powerplant, it's time to head back to the drawing board.

BTW, I drove the IS300 too...it's nice but I think you'd like the Audi A4 1.8T better....I know I did.

DefBringer

For what it's worth, I took one for a test drive, banged the hell out of the gears. Felt like I was back in my Integra GS-R.

dvarapala

I fully expect the power issue to be corrected in next year's model. Just like the Z3 had a too-wimpy engine in '96, but suddenly had a nice 6 cylinder powerplant in '97, I expect the next RX-8 to have some decent power (270 - 300HP would be about right).

I used to have an IS-300 SportCross. I got rid of it because it wasn't fast enough for me - it had even less power than the current RX-8!

LesPaul

DefB wrote: "Unfortunately, some people are so devout in their love for Mazda that they cannot accept or face the fact that the RX-8 is not quite the success it should have been." Wrong. That's not it. I love the car for the design, uniqueness, and other factors. In my eyes it is a total success. Your analysis is way off the mark. But you are entitled to your opinion, even if it's based on hot air.


"I really would like to ask rotary fans how they can possibly be fans of an engine that has less torque, gets worse gas mileage, and drinks more oil than your garden variety V6 built by Nissan." Partly because it is better engeneering and physics than a piston engine. Torque doesn't matter, except if you are wed to numbers you may not really understand. Burning a little oil is no big deal. Yes, I am disappointed in the mpg. But if you've been reading up on this you would know that it's not just 8 lovers who favor the engine. It was named Engine of the Year by knowldegable people who disagree with you.


"Ecu flash or not, the car is simply underpowered." This is "simply" wrong. For the driving most of us do, it's plenty of power. I'm used to a twin turbo 300 horse 4,000 pound car. This lighter car "feels" like it has more power.

Never mind. Trolls are entitle to their opinions too, I suppose.

rtryrktrx7

I'm not trying to be an ars, but IMO this reads like "I would say something if I could think of it, but I can't so I'll just call you a troll." I'm so tired of the troll comment. But then again you may have just not wanted to waste your time. A better way to save that time would have been not to post anything. I personally like the 8, yes it's a little under powered in my eyes, but that's me and my opinion. They're like arsholes everyone has one.
Based off of the "what did you trade for your 8" post, most people came from eco-sedans with 90 hp. Sure it's going to feel like a Rotary Rocket. Alot of the RX-8 owners I've ran into or have spoken to think these rotarys just came out. Like there hasn't been rotarys around for years. Talk about your "Troll".

asparapani

go for the g35

artmt

It is not that I was disappointed with the “off the line” performance. While it is nothing special, I did find it overall adequate.
The problem with most high-revving engines (with a few notable exceptions) is that they don’t sound too happy at high RPMs, these cars feel like they are being raped. Rotaries of course are different – with these engines you really do need that redline warning.
I have no problem giving up torque for high-end power. What disappointed me is that the high-end power is not there. I expected to feel extra power above 6K, instead I felt it drop.
Both low end torque and high end power are great, each in its own way. My problem with the 8 is that you are giving up one without getting the other.

artmt

I disagree.
I have never seen an aftermarket stereo that sounded as good as some of the better stereos that were designed/tuned for the specific car they came with.
You can easily replace a crappy stereo with a better one, but it is very hard to replace a decent stereo (and I think the 8’s Bose is overall decent) with a very good one.

artmt

To me power matters not as the end in itself, but in context.
Unlike with the 8, IS300’s power output felt adequate for the kind of car that it is.

DefBringer

So, by your logic, the engine is superior just because it is an engineering marvel? Are you one of these people who like to drive things because they are quirky rather than scoot the car along at a pace matching a car marketed as a $30,000 sports coupe?

I rate cars based on how they look, perform, how well they are built, and how fun they are to drive. I'm not sure what influences your decision on buying a car, but it is NOT as a driver. My opinion is not based on "hot air", it's by the fact I enjoy sporty/sports cars and if I'm plopping down $30,000+ for the flagship sports car under the Mazda banner, I shouldn't have to worry about kids in Acura RSX-S's flying by me on the on-ramp of a highway.

DefBringer

Exactly. I'm more than happy to rev the hell out of the car, the problem is, there is little power even at the top of the RPMs. At least Honda's have VTEC, the Renesis just runs out of breath.

javahut

If you've got kids in Acuras flying by you on an on ramp, you definitely don't know how to drive the 8.