Tinman

One more thing Saturn at the top of the list? HMMMM They would have to have the same amount of Customer Service reps as cars sold. I bet they have spent a lot of money on advertising in CR.

Elara

Wich list? In the cr thing I posted, they're near the bottom in terms of reliability...

pelucidor

It's all down to expectations. Saturn may have a very high customer service rating (JD Power) because they are typically first-time buyer cars and just being treated like a human being in a car showroom could make those buyers ecstatic.

Conversely when someone walks into a Mercedes/BMW dealership to spend $50k on a car and don't get treated like Royalty that brand might me marked down for customer service even if the person buys that brand.

Also Skyline Maniac brings up some good points. I have no doubt the Renesis engine will be very reliable - I am more concerned with other parts of the car (electric steering, rear seat belt rail etc) as there are a lot of unique features on this car compared to other Mazda vehicles. But reliability will probably be a lot better than the industry average (still a lot worse than Lexus/Acura/Infiniti). I agree with another of Skyline's points - having visited several Mazda delaerships I think that Mazda deserves it's below average customer service rating in the USA - 2 out of 3 dealers I went to were awful with dirty old buildings, poorly dressed/trained salespeople, terrible atmosphere etc - obviously I am working with the one good one. If I didn't want the car so badly I would have given up looking after the 2nd bad dealership experience.

SA22C

According to some article I read many moons ago in Car and Driver, the six speed transmission in the 10AE Miata was way too strong for the motor. Some sources from Mazda said they were field testing a new transmision for the RX-Evolv. I don't know if current Miatas employ that particular six-speed, but on the 10AE, the transmissions were the same. If the article was correct, of course.

SureShot

FWIW: The Cosmo 21 has been running the Renesis for some time now.

One of my options is to swap a J-spec Renesis into my 200,000+ mile 91 RX-7.

wakeech

...the engine mounts and transmission don't line up well across models (particularly with these two, from what i hear): that'll take some doing.

[edit] whoops, 91's an FC... i have no idea how that would work, i've just heard that the FD's aren't RENESIS friendly (or is it visa versa?? whatev... )

neit_jnf

Excuse my ignorance but ever since I found this forum and started reading I've been wondering what all the acronyms or codes mean i.e. FC, FD and so on.

rxeightr

FC = 2nd Generation RX-7
FD = 3rd Generation RX-7

Quick_lude

What power numbers does the latest Miata produce? 142hp/125tq? The Renesis torque is close to the 125 but the hp is way more, over 100 more. Do you think the stock Miata tranny will hold up with the increased output? What "hurts" the tranny more, hp or torque?

wakeech

torque is a measurement of rotational FORCE, and horsepower is a measurement of ENERGY (how much force, how fast)... it's the force that stresses the transmission...

because the difference in power is mostly due to rpm, as long as the tranny can take that extra torque and is capable of spinning that quick (the differential in speed of some of the lower gears like 1st and 2nd is huge, even with a "not so big" operational 2k rpm difference), then it would be fine.

of course, it might be MOSTLY the same tranny, selection forks and the like, with different ratios and stronger cogs inside...??

Sputnik

Yeah, but there are plenty of modified Miatas out there which are putting out much more torque and HP than the Renesis. The differentials get used up, but the trannies do just fine.

---jps

wakeech

*smacks head* forgot about that

Quick_lude

I think you and I both are looking for this smiley..
:D

Good point about the super/turbo Miatas..

commentator

I am new to posting here and not sure where this should go but I am a subscriber to Consumer Reports magazine, perhaps one of the most objective sources for automobile information of all kinds especially reliabliity and safety. Someone had posted that Mazda had ranked low in reliability. Mazda automobiles like the MPV, Protege, Miata, Millenia get better than average reliability ratings. Not a single Mazda appears on CUs used cars to avoid list, and three appear on the recommended list. For the year 2000 as an example, Mazda autos ranked 4 overall in the Better than average list, beating out the likes of Suburu, BMW, and mitsubishi. Lest you think CU doesn't have the data, they have feedback on 500,000 cars. The year 2002 yielded feedback on 480,000 vehicles. You don't have to be a statistician to know this is numericaly reliable data. I would caution all posters here to get your facts before making statements about reliability. As for customer satisfaction, I will do some more research. By category in terms of reliability the Protege, Miata and MPV rank in the top 5 in thier respective classes.

rxeightr

commentator -- welcome to the Board.

I'd say, based upon your 1st post, glad to have ya !! Look forward to hearing more from you.

Elara

I've got a subscription as well, but you have stated all this much better than I have been able to. Thanks, and welcome to the forum!

beaner

I would just like to comment that the overall reliability ratings of Mazda are also affected by their "worked over" Ford products like the B-series pickups and the Tribute. (No offense to our resident Ford Factory worker).

History has shown that a vehicle (such as my Protege) that is completely engineered and built by Mazda has great reliability, beating even vaunted Hondas and coming close to Toyota. Vehicles that borrow a few parts from Ford (such as my MPV) are also great in reliability. Vehicles that are rebadged Fords meet the same end as the sister Ford product.

I think that since the rx-8 is engineered, produced, and built by Mazda in one of their Japanese plants, we have a pretty good chance of great reliability. From what I have read about the Rotory engine though, it has to be strictly maintained. You can't get away with slipshod maintenance like a piston engine. This may result in it getting some bad marks from lazy people.

This is also my first post...I am one of the lurkers that will hopefully be buying a 2006 rx-8. (As soon as my 2002 MPV is paid off.) This is a great group, with good information.

Aeternum23

Just as it doesn't go the way of my TL-S

Smoker

Welcome to the board guys and thanks for bringing your insights on the reliability issue. Reliability is quite an important issue for all us protential and soon to be RX-8 owners on this forum. This is because as you know the previous Turboed Rotary engines really drag the Rotary Engine name through the mud in terms of reliability. Hopefully the Renesis will clear its name once and for all.

Welcome to the Forum.

zoom44

and even that was fixed except by that time the rx-7 was gone from this land so the only ones who can really testify are those lucky folks living in japan.

norats

I've never owned a rotary before, but I own a 79 GLC and a 93 MX-6 and have had no major porblems with either.....
however, i do see an ususually high number of rx-7 1st & 2nd gens in the local boneyards...my theory is, that most people don't work on their own stuff & finding a repair shop to work on rotaries is either difficult to find or expensive, so people just elect to junk the whole car.

What do you think? Why so many 7's in boneyards?

norats

rxtreme

iTrader: (1)

My first car (purchased by me) was a 1989 Mazda 323. Engine and associated mechanicals were awesome. The only real problem with it was the rear wheel bearings (burned out frequently), which I heard was an engineering design carried over from the Ford Escort.

BillK

That's part of it, another part, especially with Gen I RX-7s in areas with snow is that Japan didn't quite get the whole rustproofing thing back then, so for example if you live in Wisconsin the chassis would turn to rust long before the engine gave out.

Combine that with the fact that you do have to do maintenance on an RX-7, and if you don't have a local rotary shop and don't want to go to a garage, when the apex seals go, you're done - a rotary isn't like a standard engine where you can just ignore the timing belt/chain and wait until your valves are fried.

Finally, a number are there simply because their drivers didn't know how to handle a relatively inexpensive sports car and so tweaked their frames; many have engines that have hundreds of thousands of miles of life left in them but have had a unibody-mangling accident...

grogiefrog

I owned two RX-7's (an '80 and an 84' GSL-SE). You do need to make sure that they get a tune up by a guy that knows what he's doing. I usually used a dealer for maintenance, but I often made them readjust the ideal after a tune up. They seemed to always set the ideal to low. But I always had good experience with a small Mazda service department. Since then, I have gotten use to larger Honda dealerships that are a bit unpersonal. Anyway, I'm sure that the Renesis still needs a yearly tune up. But with good care, you should see 200,000 miles on a rotary.

Ren-gen

Well, I know for the Miata, the 90 has a weak crank. This was fixed in 91 models. The 99 Miata (the first year of the 2nd gen) had a bearing problem which was recalled early in 2000. Other than that, no major problems.

The Miata's transmission can handle between 260rwhp-300rwhp with equal torque numbers before they break. For aftermarket turbo's, you probably won't see anything above 8psi for the RX-8.