REAL competitors for the RX-8...
07-11-2002, 01:24 PM
#26
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The Rx-8 will draw buyers from several different vehicle types but, I think the bulk will come from the following areas: the "enthusiast" BMW 3-series owner, the A4/S4 crowd, Impreza 2.5 and WRX that's looking for more "sports car" and the Miata/ S2000/ Boxster/Rx-7 owner that needs room for passengers and doesn't want a fwd, understeering pig (i.e. ME)
The car appears to strike a happy medium between the Sport Sedan/Coupe and Performance Roadster/Sports Car.
The RX-8's greatest feature (IMHO) is balance: It appears that it will do many things well: handling/acceleration, style, functionality at a price that makes sense.
I see the reliablity/fragility issue's (leftover from the RX-7) being the only thing that will "possibly" keep it from being smash success.
The car appears to strike a happy medium between the Sport Sedan/Coupe and Performance Roadster/Sports Car.
The RX-8's greatest feature (IMHO) is balance: It appears that it will do many things well: handling/acceleration, style, functionality at a price that makes sense.
I see the reliablity/fragility issue's (leftover from the RX-7) being the only thing that will "possibly" keep it from being smash success.
07-11-2002, 02:04 PM
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cshepley said:
That is a good point. RWD is traditionally more in tune to a true sports car, but I'm basing the purchase of my next car on four factors; practicality, performance/fun-to-drive factor, reliability, and price.
Practicality: Both the RSX (type s or type r) and the RX-8 meet the standard in this area. The RX-8 has a more useable rear seat while the RSX has more cargo capacity being a hatchback. Either way, it's a tie in my opinion because they'll both get the job done for me.
Performance/fun-to-drive factor: If Honda decides to send the type r, their is no doubt in my mind that it will perform right with the RX-8 in a straight line or on a track. The fact that one is FWD vs. RWD or McStruts vs. double wishbones or 250HP vs. 217HP means nothing to me if they can perform about equally or the "feel" of the car is pretty close. If the RX-8 performs as well as rumored, then I'll probably give the edge to the RX-8 because its design seems a little more leaned towards performance---on paper. It should be noted that if both are available when I'm ready to purchase, the final assessment in this catagory will be reserved until a test drive is done with both cars.
Reliability: I don't care how reliable NA rotories were in the past, this is a brand new car with a brand new engine. I personally know that Hondas reliability is a tough beat and I'll give reliability to the RSX type r.
Price: All things being equal, if the RX-8 can come equipped with what I want for ~28k, this will be a tough call. I'm guessing the type r will be a little cheaper (minus price gouging), but I may get more from the RX-8.
If the type r is not available by around April/May of next year and the RX-8 is, I guess Honda will have made up my mind for me.
Of course, there's also that little tiny issue of RWD in the RX8 vs FWD in the RSX.
Practicality: Both the RSX (type s or type r) and the RX-8 meet the standard in this area. The RX-8 has a more useable rear seat while the RSX has more cargo capacity being a hatchback. Either way, it's a tie in my opinion because they'll both get the job done for me.
Performance/fun-to-drive factor: If Honda decides to send the type r, their is no doubt in my mind that it will perform right with the RX-8 in a straight line or on a track. The fact that one is FWD vs. RWD or McStruts vs. double wishbones or 250HP vs. 217HP means nothing to me if they can perform about equally or the "feel" of the car is pretty close. If the RX-8 performs as well as rumored, then I'll probably give the edge to the RX-8 because its design seems a little more leaned towards performance---on paper. It should be noted that if both are available when I'm ready to purchase, the final assessment in this catagory will be reserved until a test drive is done with both cars.
Reliability: I don't care how reliable NA rotories were in the past, this is a brand new car with a brand new engine. I personally know that Hondas reliability is a tough beat and I'll give reliability to the RSX type r.
Price: All things being equal, if the RX-8 can come equipped with what I want for ~28k, this will be a tough call. I'm guessing the type r will be a little cheaper (minus price gouging), but I may get more from the RX-8.
If the type r is not available by around April/May of next year and the RX-8 is, I guess Honda will have made up my mind for me.
Last edited by rxtreme; 07-11-2002 at 04:39 PM.
07-11-2002, 05:08 PM
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Well, I've been visiting for a while and thought I would contribute. (Hope this post works!) It's nice to see others interested in the RX-8 as well.
Basically, I think the competitive models can be defined as broadly or narrowly as one wants. There is no other car out that is as sporty, has good seating for 4, has suicide doors, etc. That said, I think the closest existing competing model is the Subaru Impreza WRX wagon -- similar horsepower, capacity and price.
Personally, I've also been considering the WRX wagon, 350Z and Corvette. Granted that is a pretty broad range of car type there, but I think that just proves my original point that the competition is in the eye of the beholder.
Basically, I think the competitive models can be defined as broadly or narrowly as one wants. There is no other car out that is as sporty, has good seating for 4, has suicide doors, etc. That said, I think the closest existing competing model is the Subaru Impreza WRX wagon -- similar horsepower, capacity and price.
Personally, I've also been considering the WRX wagon, 350Z and Corvette. Granted that is a pretty broad range of car type there, but I think that just proves my original point that the competition is in the eye of the beholder.
07-14-2002, 01:46 PM
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RX-8 vs Z350
I found this web site and ythought some of you ight want to visit it and reply with you r opinions.
Obviously, this is a pro-Z350 sight.
Ckeck it out at http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t32618.html:)
Obviously, this is a pro-Z350 sight.
Ckeck it out at http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t32618.html:)
07-14-2002, 02:52 PM
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Funny you should mention that thread. I'm Iceburn over there (and on www.miataforum.com), and tried to interject a bit of pro-RX-8 stuff without invading their board. There were a few others who did as well.
07-17-2002, 03:15 PM
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I'm curious to see how Mazda will market the RX-8.
They can market it as a sports sedan/2+2 and compete with the WRX (STi would be a good match), BMW 330ci, Lexus IS300, and the Infiniti G35 (coupe is a closer match than the sedan). Since the RX-8 will probably be the lightest and best handling of the bunch, they can use that to their advantage.
On the other hand, you can also envision them aiming the RX-8 at the sports car segment, competing with the S2000 and 350Z. The RX-8 should offer comparable performance (if the final product matches the initial specifications), but offers an additional 2 seats, thus being the "practical" sports car.
Personally, I'm juggling between the two segments. I really like the sports car segment and the performance and handling they offer. I'm a bit hesitant to spring for a pure 2 seater, since I like the flexibility of the added interior space and ability to carry more than 1 passenger. The sports sedans interest me, but I think the handling is still a bit too soft IMO. Based on that, it seems like the RX-8 is the perfect car for me!
They can market it as a sports sedan/2+2 and compete with the WRX (STi would be a good match), BMW 330ci, Lexus IS300, and the Infiniti G35 (coupe is a closer match than the sedan). Since the RX-8 will probably be the lightest and best handling of the bunch, they can use that to their advantage.
On the other hand, you can also envision them aiming the RX-8 at the sports car segment, competing with the S2000 and 350Z. The RX-8 should offer comparable performance (if the final product matches the initial specifications), but offers an additional 2 seats, thus being the "practical" sports car.
Personally, I'm juggling between the two segments. I really like the sports car segment and the performance and handling they offer. I'm a bit hesitant to spring for a pure 2 seater, since I like the flexibility of the added interior space and ability to carry more than 1 passenger. The sports sedans interest me, but I think the handling is still a bit too soft IMO. Based on that, it seems like the RX-8 is the perfect car for me!
07-17-2002, 03:40 PM
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S2000 I think not... it's a roadster, unless Mazda has untold plans of a convertible they are in different leagues
BMW 330Ci Prolly not again... it's a beemer, a lot of the people that are in the market for that car wouldn't want something that is made by a non-luxury car company (Mazda)
WRX possibly... granted the WRX came over in reaction to rally cars... I think that it might be part of the competition
350Z maybe... most people seem to try to put these two together. Remember this is not the RX-7. The previous gens for both cars did compete, but now one is a 2 seat sports car (350Z), the other has 4 seats (RX-8)
Infiniti G35 more of a chance... same as above but has a more user friendly 2 more seat option, but does have more luxury (I'm guessing) than the 350Z
Lexus IS300 maybe... good car, not too much informed on it, but I think that it has a good chance to put that in it's competition.
With that I might market it against the IS300 and what the WRX are going to be against, as well as try to throw in some suprises to maybe switch those that are looking in totally different categories of cars-
BMW 330Ci Prolly not again... it's a beemer, a lot of the people that are in the market for that car wouldn't want something that is made by a non-luxury car company (Mazda)
WRX possibly... granted the WRX came over in reaction to rally cars... I think that it might be part of the competition
350Z maybe... most people seem to try to put these two together. Remember this is not the RX-7. The previous gens for both cars did compete, but now one is a 2 seat sports car (350Z), the other has 4 seats (RX-8)
Infiniti G35 more of a chance... same as above but has a more user friendly 2 more seat option, but does have more luxury (I'm guessing) than the 350Z
Lexus IS300 maybe... good car, not too much informed on it, but I think that it has a good chance to put that in it's competition.
With that I might market it against the IS300 and what the WRX are going to be against, as well as try to throw in some suprises to maybe switch those that are looking in totally different categories of cars-
07-17-2002, 03:51 PM
#33
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I drive a BMW and I definitely want to change for an RX-8 !!
Where I live, they trow you to death with Bmw's tuned to the max... (and also non tuned ones)
So, my opinion is, the RX-8 is just a class on it's own. Something a lot of people will like, and others will dislike for some idiot reason...
Rotary lovers wanting to have a real sports coupé just need to wait a bit more on the new RX-7 I guess...
(Also nice work for the new RX-7 prototype but it's still the convenience of the RX-8 that makes the difference for me)
Where I live, they trow you to death with Bmw's tuned to the max... (and also non tuned ones)
So, my opinion is, the RX-8 is just a class on it's own. Something a lot of people will like, and others will dislike for some idiot reason...
Rotary lovers wanting to have a real sports coupé just need to wait a bit more on the new RX-7 I guess...
(Also nice work for the new RX-7 prototype but it's still the convenience of the RX-8 that makes the difference for me)
07-17-2002, 04:19 PM
#34
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The genius of the RX-8 is that it is not pure 2-seat sports car and is not a sporty sedan, but is in between. This car is perfect for someone who wants the fun of a sports car and the practicality of a sports sedan.
Case in point...Me:
Problem:
1. I want a third Gen so bad it hurts. My all time favorite car. Best looks, super performance, love rotaries. I have wanted it since it came out when I was in college, but I was poor in college. When I could afford one they stopped exporting them to the USA. I am a snob, I like new cars.
2. Would buy a 2-seat sports car (S2000, 350z, Miata) now, but I'm a daddy (one year old on 7/23!) & a husband. Not going to happen.
3. I like sports sedans (3 Series, A4, IS300), but oh my dreams of that sports car! Plus the prices are just at my threshold. They better be dam special for me to approach my spending threshold, but they are not.
4. (Only applies to people like me & not the general public.) I am a rotary freak!
Solution:
1. Mazda RX-8, perfect solution!
I think there are many people (male & female) that have the same needs and wants for a car that the RX-8 will fill.
Point:
This car will defy classification & comparisons. There is no competitor, its a segment breaker.
Case in point...Me:
Problem:
1. I want a third Gen so bad it hurts. My all time favorite car. Best looks, super performance, love rotaries. I have wanted it since it came out when I was in college, but I was poor in college. When I could afford one they stopped exporting them to the USA. I am a snob, I like new cars.
2. Would buy a 2-seat sports car (S2000, 350z, Miata) now, but I'm a daddy (one year old on 7/23!) & a husband. Not going to happen.
3. I like sports sedans (3 Series, A4, IS300), but oh my dreams of that sports car! Plus the prices are just at my threshold. They better be dam special for me to approach my spending threshold, but they are not.
4. (Only applies to people like me & not the general public.) I am a rotary freak!
Solution:
1. Mazda RX-8, perfect solution!
I think there are many people (male & female) that have the same needs and wants for a car that the RX-8 will fill.
Point:
This car will defy classification & comparisons. There is no competitor, its a segment breaker.
Last edited by Styjan; 07-17-2002 at 04:28 PM.
07-17-2002, 04:22 PM
#35
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bmw 330
i agree with styjan. im in the same spot in my life just no kids yet. funny that people are mentioning the bmw 330. i saw too 3 series bimmers yesterday and the first thing i did at each of them was walk up and look at the back seat. there is not a whole bunch of leg room back there. it appears in most of the pics that the rx8 has as much or more. i think the rx8 is a real competitor for the 3 series. the 8 is gonna have more zoom for the buck!
Last edited by zoom44; 07-17-2002 at 04:25 PM.
07-17-2002, 04:28 PM
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My 3-series sedan has very little legspace on the backseats, even less than a volvo s-40 wich a friend of mine has.
Not that I care much about that, because I'm the one always sitting in front :D
I hope the thrunk is big enough to fit a big woofer and amplifier...
Not that I care much about that, because I'm the one always sitting in front :D
I hope the thrunk is big enough to fit a big woofer and amplifier...
07-22-2002, 08:33 PM
#37
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mustang?
i wonder if the rx8 will be competition for the mustang? longish snout, short front and rear over hangs, room for four (although the rx8 should be easier to get in the back of). rwd.performance oriented.both the only ones in their class now that the mustang doesn't have a firebird or camaro to go against. both look good in yellow. 
what would ford do if the rx8 started eating into their mustang sales. now i'm not talking cobras or saleens here just base model 6 cylinders and maybe gt's.
what would ford do if the rx8 started eating into their mustang sales. now i'm not talking cobras or saleens here just base model 6 cylinders and maybe gt's.
07-30-2002, 09:53 PM
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underestimated
please the rx8 is going to be alot faster.lord jesus stop being so picky it's a beautiful car people. four door 250hp lite on it feet
the mustang gt has 260hp it weigh a ton and is not all that fast
i think if the rx8 does weigh 2900 it going to pose a threat.:D :D
the mustang gt has 260hp it weigh a ton and is not all that fast
i think if the rx8 does weigh 2900 it going to pose a threat.:D :D
07-31-2002, 09:19 AM
#39
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Re: underestimated
I'm no fan of Mustangs, but the GT only weighs 3241lbs. Not all that much more than the RX-8, its not a land barge. It also has 302ft/lb of torque to help overcome the extra ~280lbs off the line.
That said, I bet the RX-8 with its better power to weight ratio and most likely way better handling will easily hang with a stock Mustang GT. It will absolutely kill a V6 'Stang (as many family sedans are capable of also), but would likewise be decimated by the new Cobra.
That said, I bet the RX-8 with its better power to weight ratio and most likely way better handling will easily hang with a stock Mustang GT. It will absolutely kill a V6 'Stang (as many family sedans are capable of also), but would likewise be decimated by the new Cobra.
Originally posted by specmi80
please the rx8 is going to be alot faster.lord jesus stop being so picky it's a beautiful car people. four door 250hp lite on it feet
the mustang gt has 260hp it weigh a ton and is not all that fast
i think if the rx8 does weigh 2900 it going to pose a threat.:D :D
please the rx8 is going to be alot faster.lord jesus stop being so picky it's a beautiful car people. four door 250hp lite on it feet
the mustang gt has 260hp it weigh a ton and is not all that fast
i think if the rx8 does weigh 2900 it going to pose a threat.:D :D
07-31-2002, 11:32 AM
#40
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take it easy... don't get Rich started again about the "torque in the upper rev ranges is better than low" (more horse power is the key), 'cause i think he'll go nuts if he has to go through all that again!!
as for the weight thing, 300lb is a **** load more... try and remove 300lb from that 'Stang so it has a chance of keeping up with the 8 around the corners (in theory), you'd have a tough time (to keep it usable as a daily driver)...
besides, the 8 isn't a drag car, or a stoplight warrior, just a very sporty sedan, with kickass styling and design.
as for the weight thing, 300lb is a **** load more... try and remove 300lb from that 'Stang so it has a chance of keeping up with the 8 around the corners (in theory), you'd have a tough time (to keep it usable as a daily driver)...
besides, the 8 isn't a drag car, or a stoplight warrior, just a very sporty sedan, with kickass styling and design.
07-31-2002, 04:31 PM
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Re: Re: underestimated
Originally posted by cshepley
I'm no fan of Mustangs, but the GT only weighs 3241lbs. Not all that much more than the RX-8, its not a land barge. It also has 302ft/lb of torque to help overcome the extra ~280lbs off the line.
That said, I bet the RX-8 with its better power to weight ratio and most likely way better handling will easily hang with a stock Mustang GT. It will absolutely kill a V6 'Stang (as many family sedans are capable of also), but would likewise be decimated by the new Cobra.
I'm no fan of Mustangs, but the GT only weighs 3241lbs. Not all that much more than the RX-8, its not a land barge. It also has 302ft/lb of torque to help overcome the extra ~280lbs off the line.
That said, I bet the RX-8 with its better power to weight ratio and most likely way better handling will easily hang with a stock Mustang GT. It will absolutely kill a V6 'Stang (as many family sedans are capable of also), but would likewise be decimated by the new Cobra.
stats look nice that about it is not as fast as you think 2002 gt
0-60 6.0 1/4mile 14.8 at 99mph that really suck for a 4.6 liter of
displacement that a big engine.I seen ITR on drig strip just make
them look dumb in stock form.but belive want you want!:p
07-31-2002, 04:41 PM
#43
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wagon
and stop calling it a sport sedan please it's a SPORT CAR mmm let me think 250hp it small lite fast.it's common sense just because
it has four door does not mean nothing.look at the wrx and the evolution and big barge like a mustang or a big chevy with a 350 big block.:o :o
it has four door does not mean nothing.look at the wrx and the evolution and big barge like a mustang or a big chevy with a 350 big block.:o :o
07-31-2002, 06:53 PM
#44
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Originally posted by zoom44
yeah rich is liable to blow an apex seal:D
yeah rich is liable to blow an apex seal:D
07-31-2002, 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by Styjan
The genius of the RX-8 is that it is not pure 2-seat sports car and is not a sporty sedan, but is in between. This car is perfect for someone who wants the fun of a sports car and the practicality of a sports sedan.
Case in point...Me:
Problem:
1. I want a third Gen so bad it hurts. My all time favorite car. Best looks, super performance, love rotaries. I have wanted it since it came out when I was in college, but I was poor in college. When I could afford one they stopped exporting them to the USA. I am a snob, I like new cars.
2. Would buy a 2-seat sports car (S2000, 350z, Miata) now, but I'm a daddy (one year old on 7/23!) & a husband. Not going to happen.
3. I like sports sedans (3 Series, A4, IS300), but oh my dreams of that sports car! Plus the prices are just at my threshold. They better be dam special for me to approach my spending threshold, but they are not.
4. (Only applies to people like me & not the general public.) I am a rotary freak!
Solution:
1. Mazda RX-8, perfect solution!
I think there are many people (male & female) that have the same needs and wants for a car that the RX-8 will fill.
Point:
This car will defy classification & comparisons. There is no competitor, its a segment breaker.
The genius of the RX-8 is that it is not pure 2-seat sports car and is not a sporty sedan, but is in between. This car is perfect for someone who wants the fun of a sports car and the practicality of a sports sedan.
Case in point...Me:
Problem:
1. I want a third Gen so bad it hurts. My all time favorite car. Best looks, super performance, love rotaries. I have wanted it since it came out when I was in college, but I was poor in college. When I could afford one they stopped exporting them to the USA. I am a snob, I like new cars.
2. Would buy a 2-seat sports car (S2000, 350z, Miata) now, but I'm a daddy (one year old on 7/23!) & a husband. Not going to happen.
3. I like sports sedans (3 Series, A4, IS300), but oh my dreams of that sports car! Plus the prices are just at my threshold. They better be dam special for me to approach my spending threshold, but they are not.
4. (Only applies to people like me & not the general public.) I am a rotary freak!
Solution:
1. Mazda RX-8, perfect solution!
I think there are many people (male & female) that have the same needs and wants for a car that the RX-8 will fill.
Point:
This car will defy classification & comparisons. There is no competitor, its a segment breaker.
Isn't that what the BMW M3 is for too?
08-01-2002, 12:16 PM
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ya, but the M3 is really bloody expensive... my first post (that started the thread) outlined that it is quite a sum greater than the expected price for the 8... and because it's heavier, the performance won't be the same (slower in some things, maybe quicker in a straight line...)
08-01-2002, 02:05 PM
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Good point. But for a "real" back seat though an M3 would be the way to go. The Road and Track video with the hawaiian dude... he looked like he had to struggle to get into the back seat. Plus on a long trip those rollercoaster style seats start to feel really uncomfortable just like the Mercury Cougar.