Put my rx-8 on the dyno
07-18-2003, 02:02 PM
#54
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Originally posted by Gord96BRG
So, first you say it's a percentage... then you say it's not a percentage. That's very self-explanatory, thanks!
The use of a percentage should apply when it's actually a percentage - sure, you can divide any number by another and express the result as a percentage, but unless it truly is a fixed percentage which would be scalable, then that's an entirely inappropriate use of that function.
So, first you say it's a percentage... then you say it's not a percentage. That's very self-explanatory, thanks!
The use of a percentage should apply when it's actually a percentage - sure, you can divide any number by another and express the result as a percentage, but unless it truly is a fixed percentage which would be scalable, then that's an entirely inappropriate use of that function.
ps. Sorry, I get defensive very easily.
Last edited by OrangeBingo; 07-18-2003 at 02:44 PM.
07-18-2003, 02:06 PM
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Look, the important thing to remember is that (as has been stated above) the RX-8 wouldn't achieve the performance statistics that owners prove it does if the car and dyno in this test are representative. Something is not right but it's not with the generic RX-8.
07-18-2003, 02:29 PM
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uhhhhh....hello?
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07-18-2003, 03:51 PM
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Mazda has a history of over rating their cars. My mazda6i makes 126 hp to the wheel when the engine is rated at 160 hp. Why don't manuf. release number as to what the car makes to the wheels? The HP at crank is usless to me!!!
Does a rotorary engine have to be broken in the same way a piston engine does? I mean thought their were less moving parts.
All in all I'm still holding out hope for a Mazda Speed rx-8 :D :D :D
Does a rotorary engine have to be broken in the same way a piston engine does? I mean thought their were less moving parts. All in all I'm still holding out hope for a Mazda Speed rx-8 :D :D :D
07-18-2003, 04:28 PM
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My two cents:
First, you need to identify if the power claim by the manufacturer is at the flywheel or at the drive wheels. If measured on a chassis dyno then you are only registering approximately 80 percent of the flywheel number, the rest is lost to friction, heat and pumping losses. Lesson two is when dealing with engines, as "one plus one plus one" does not always equal three; sometimes it adds up to two or four.
re: Mods Since a systems approach needs to be taken when choosing modifications to any engine, the total power improvement is only equal to the difference the part provides, less any weak links.
:D
First, you need to identify if the power claim by the manufacturer is at the flywheel or at the drive wheels. If measured on a chassis dyno then you are only registering approximately 80 percent of the flywheel number, the rest is lost to friction, heat and pumping losses. Lesson two is when dealing with engines, as "one plus one plus one" does not always equal three; sometimes it adds up to two or four.
re: Mods Since a systems approach needs to be taken when choosing modifications to any engine, the total power improvement is only equal to the difference the part provides, less any weak links.
:D
07-18-2003, 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by Red Devil
I don't see it as a big deal if the car only produces 174rwhp, just as long as it performs similarly to what the various magazines tested the car at. Just my thoughts.
At the same time, my concern would be whether my personal car was not mechanically sound, or if Mazda's factory information is not correct. The last thing Mazda needs is a scandal, and I assume every one on this forum can agree on that.
I don't see it as a big deal if the car only produces 174rwhp, just as long as it performs similarly to what the various magazines tested the car at. Just my thoughts.
At the same time, my concern would be whether my personal car was not mechanically sound, or if Mazda's factory information is not correct. The last thing Mazda needs is a scandal, and I assume every one on this forum can agree on that.
It DOES that's why the car got lapped on the straight aways in that Best Motoring Video.. The best was when the WRX dude was pointing and laughing and waving "bye bye!!!"
07-18-2003, 04:59 PM
#63
Go Texas Longhorns!
Originally posted by block911
Mazda has a history of over rating their cars. My mazda6i makes 126 hp to the wheel when the engine is rated at 160 hp. Why don't manuf. release number as to what the car makes to the wheels? The HP at crank is usless to me!!! Does a rotorary engine have to be broken in the same way a piston engine does? I mean thought their were less moving parts.
All in all I'm still holding out hope for a Mazda Speed rx-8 :D :D :D
Mazda has a history of over rating their cars. My mazda6i makes 126 hp to the wheel when the engine is rated at 160 hp. Why don't manuf. release number as to what the car makes to the wheels? The HP at crank is usless to me!!!
Does a rotorary engine have to be broken in the same way a piston engine does? I mean thought their were less moving parts. All in all I'm still holding out hope for a Mazda Speed rx-8 :D :D :D
For the record, my V6 seems over rated in terms of TQ, I get 176/170 to the wheels and the crank stats are 220/192.
I don't think Mazda cooks its HP stats.
07-18-2003, 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by brillo
The Mazda 6i makes 130 WHP and 130 WTQ not 125, which given its stats of 160/155, is right in line. The car in question was also brand new and in Cali, so it had the ULEV package which saps another 3-5HP. bear in mind Honda's get K24 that everyone raves over is .1L larger than the 2.3L Mazda.
For the record, my V6 seems over rated in terms of TQ, I get 176/170 to the wheels and the crank stats are 220/192.
I don't think Mazda cooks its HP stats.
The Mazda 6i makes 130 WHP and 130 WTQ not 125, which given its stats of 160/155, is right in line. The car in question was also brand new and in Cali, so it had the ULEV package which saps another 3-5HP. bear in mind Honda's get K24 that everyone raves over is .1L larger than the 2.3L Mazda.
For the record, my V6 seems over rated in terms of TQ, I get 176/170 to the wheels and the crank stats are 220/192.
I don't think Mazda cooks its HP stats.
UHHHH.... Go read up on the Mazda's miata lawsuit.
KTHNX.
07-18-2003, 05:17 PM
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It's already been stated on this board in other places that there was no lawsuit. Looks like you're the one who needs to read up on it.
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.p...a&pagenumber=2
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.p...a&pagenumber=2
07-18-2003, 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Rich
It's already been stated on this board in other places that there was no lawsuit. Looks like you're the one who needs to read up on it.
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.p...a&pagenumber=2
It's already been stated on this board in other places that there was no lawsuit. Looks like you're the one who needs to read up on it.
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.p...a&pagenumber=2
Nope - there was no law suits at any time over the 2001 Miata HP issue. Lots of publicity, quite a few unhappy owners, and a suitable resolution voluntarily provided by Mazda - owners could either return their Miatas for a prorated refund, or get $500 in accessories or free maintenance. The HP difference in that case was 12 HP, not 3, and resulted from a mix-up over test estimates and a decision after the engine tested at 155 to have all US Miata meet California emissions regs. It was the recalibrated engine that only made 142 crank HP.
They coped out and offered refunds to AVOID the lawsuit
BOTTOM LINE: THE CAR WAS OVERATED!!
07-18-2003, 05:34 PM
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you know how the electronics lowers the redline on a cold start? could Mazda have secretly programmed the ecu to also limit power for the first xxxx amount of miles?
Did this dyno also measure the air/fule ratio and throttle position so you can see if the thing was actually at WOT and full fuel mix and not limited somehow?
Did this dyno also measure the air/fule ratio and throttle position so you can see if the thing was actually at WOT and full fuel mix and not limited somehow?
07-18-2003, 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by brillo
The car in question was also brand new and in Cali, so it had the ULEV package which saps another 3-5HP.
The car in question was also brand new and in Cali, so it had the ULEV package which saps another 3-5HP.
Originally posted by Block911
BOTTOM LINE: THE CAR WAS OVERATED!!
BOTTOM LINE: THE CAR WAS OVERATED!!
07-18-2003, 07:24 PM
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I don't think it really matters, so long as the RX-8 can carry 2 tall people in the back, and is fun to drive. People who wants power would get V6 or V8 to begin with. btw: is it April Fools? I don't recall the last time a 210hp, 3000lb car can do 0-60 in under 6 seconds. Other RX-8 owners should go out and dyno their cars as well. In the mean time, I suspect many potential RX-8 buyers would be waiting.
btw: If the RX-8 only had 174whp, it would have been left in dust in the Best Motoring video.... (well, it would have lost even more on the straights) So I think the dyno is mistaken.
btw: If the RX-8 only had 174whp, it would have been left in dust in the Best Motoring video.... (well, it would have lost even more on the straights) So I think the dyno is mistaken.
Last edited by Skyline Maniac; 07-18-2003 at 07:36 PM.
07-18-2003, 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by Skyline Maniac
I don't think it really matters, so long as the RX-8 can carry 2 tall people in the back, and is fun to drive. People who wants power would get V6 or V8 to begin with. btw: is it April Fools? I don't recall the last time a 210hp, 3000lb car can do 0-60 in under 6 seconds. Other RX-8 owners should go out and dyno their cars as well. In the mean time, I suspect many potential RX-8 buyers would be waiting.
btw: If the RX-8 only had 174whp, it would have been left in dust in the Best Motoring video.... (well, it would have lost even more on the straights) So I think the dyno is mistaken.
I don't think it really matters, so long as the RX-8 can carry 2 tall people in the back, and is fun to drive. People who wants power would get V6 or V8 to begin with. btw: is it April Fools? I don't recall the last time a 210hp, 3000lb car can do 0-60 in under 6 seconds. Other RX-8 owners should go out and dyno their cars as well. In the mean time, I suspect many potential RX-8 buyers would be waiting.
btw: If the RX-8 only had 174whp, it would have been left in dust in the Best Motoring video.... (well, it would have lost even more on the straights) So I think the dyno is mistaken.
Uh it did get left in the dust. The RSX even passed it up LOL
The only thing it could beat is again the overated MIATA.
07-18-2003, 08:22 PM
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If you're talking about the video I think you are, it was not a U.S. spec RSX, but an ITR. Biiiiig difference.
Why is it you're here just to slam Mazda? They make fun to drive cars that are univerally lauded by the press. For the past year there have been dozens of trolls who come on here talking smack about the lack of torque or power, the performance, or whatever. The people who buy the RX-8 are not going to be the mindless armchair racers. The people who buy the RX-8 are the ones who enjoy driving, regardless of the numbers the car produces. People who buy cars based on magazine stats and HP and torque numbers will never understand or appreciate their cars.
The people who buy and own Miatas don't buy them because they expect them to be fast. They buy them because they are fun to drive. I believe the Miata is the only car in history to make 10 consecutive years on Automobile's 10 best list, IIRC. It has similar records with Edmunds and many other lists. Calling a car that has the enviable history as one of the standard bearers in all of automotive journalism overrated because it's slower on the track than newer cars costing $10,000 more is patently absurd.
It really makes one wonder what kind of a life someone must lead if they feel obsessed with spending their time on the message board of a car they don't like from a company they dislike.
Really sad...
Why is it you're here just to slam Mazda? They make fun to drive cars that are univerally lauded by the press. For the past year there have been dozens of trolls who come on here talking smack about the lack of torque or power, the performance, or whatever. The people who buy the RX-8 are not going to be the mindless armchair racers. The people who buy the RX-8 are the ones who enjoy driving, regardless of the numbers the car produces. People who buy cars based on magazine stats and HP and torque numbers will never understand or appreciate their cars.
The people who buy and own Miatas don't buy them because they expect them to be fast. They buy them because they are fun to drive. I believe the Miata is the only car in history to make 10 consecutive years on Automobile's 10 best list, IIRC. It has similar records with Edmunds and many other lists. Calling a car that has the enviable history as one of the standard bearers in all of automotive journalism overrated because it's slower on the track than newer cars costing $10,000 more is patently absurd.
It really makes one wonder what kind of a life someone must lead if they feel obsessed with spending their time on the message board of a car they don't like from a company they dislike.
Really sad...
07-19-2003, 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Rich
If you're talking about the video I think you are, it was not a U.S. spec RSX, but an ITR. Biiiiig difference.
If you're talking about the video I think you are, it was not a U.S. spec RSX, but an ITR. Biiiiig difference.
JDM RX-8:
Weight: 1310kg
Engine: 13B-MSP
Power: 250 ps @ 8500rpm
Torque: 22.0 kg-m @ 5500rpm (lower rpm the better)
Tires: Potenza RE040 225/45 R18
Price: 2750000 yen
Power Weight Ratio: 5.24 (lower the better)
JDM Integra - R:
Weight: 1180kg (with air con)
Engine: K20A
Power: 220 ps @ 8000rpm
Torque: 21.0 kg-m @ 7000rpm
Tires: Potenza RE040 215/45 R17
Price: 2590000 yen
Power Weight Ratio: 5.36
The fact the Integra R passed the RX-8 on the straights so quickly really doesn't make sense base on these specs. Then again, as Herc and Rich have already mentioned, specs don't mean anything, and track performance aren't worth a dime. What really matters is how you feel when you drive the car. Right? btw: The Miata is a legend, but I wouldn't compare the RX-8 to the Miata directly.
07-19-2003, 09:10 PM
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Couldn't a plausible answer to the appearent ease with which the RX-8 was overtaken by the Integra be simply due to difference in gearing between the two cars (i.e. the Integra's gearing being more suited for that particular piece of track)?
If this is the case, the gearing of the RX-8 might simply be better suited for real-world road driving - the Integra is after all Honda's Evo-ish offering.
Cheers
Eske
If this is the case, the gearing of the RX-8 might simply be better suited for real-world road driving - the Integra is after all Honda's Evo-ish offering.
Cheers
Eske
Last edited by Pablo; 07-19-2003 at 09:12 PM.