mitty

G'mornin' gents,

I am thinking about buying a 6-speed RX-8 in the next couple of months. At this time it seems to be about the best GT type car relative to my needs -- mostly alone in the car but needing some space to carry fairly heavy/bulky bags of target pistols or flight gear. Once in a while haul the wife, a small dog, and some junk in the back. I especially like the little back "seat" *** cargo shelf with rear doors access -- tipping me away from the little Beemer coupe where everything has to go in the hatchback.

By way of background, I'm an old fart and have owned a lot of interesting cars including a Lotus, a Jensen Interceptor, and a (real) 289 Cobra. Also raced sports cars for 15 years. I have no interest in boom box audio or useless trim like spoilers or air dams.

Q1) I don't see that I need any options at all. I am interested in handling and the base stick car seems to have everything sensible that's available short of the aftermarket. Right?

Q2) What's the first year reliability experience with the cars? Any real disaster areas?

Q3) Will the 2005 eliminate that stupid digital speed readout? If so, that might be worth waiting for.

Q4) Any problem finding steel wheels for snow tires? Is the offset or the bolt circle really odd? I am in Minnesota, so snowies are necessary.

Thanks,
Mitty

JM1FE

If you're interested in handling, then you'd want the DSC option which is available in the Touring package. That also gets you larger brakes. Personally (and this is purely subjective) I have would only get the 8 with the Touring package.


You'll need to read a lot more here and then ask specific questions. The 'flooding' issue is resolved with the "M" software flash to the engine computer. This is part of a service bulletin. Look in the 'Tech' section on this site, and one of the first threads in the list links you to all of the applicable service bulletins. Make sure that they're ALL complied with (a/c, trunk gasket, oil pan, etc.) if applicable for your VIN number.



No, it won't. Its a feature, not a bug. Whether it's stupid or not is a matter of opinion. Most people like it.



You can either mount snows on the stock rims, or get more alloys, but no 'steel' rims are available. www.tirerack.com has snow packages. For the stock 18" alloys, Nokian Hakkapelitta snows are available in an appropriate size (this does NOT show up on tirerack.com due to their braindead search system).

rxeightr

1) The RX-8 will likely handle better stock than any of the others mentioned.
2) Have owned mine for 14 month - no reliability concern. Actually I'm quite impressed with it being a 1st year car.
3) I don't have a 'stupid' digital speedo - mine is classy & appreciated. It grows on you.
4) My opinion is to get steel wheel, as you will want to run performance tires when out of the snow season.

Enjoy your RX-8.

mitty

Thanks guys.

>1) The RX-8 will likely handle better stock than any of the others mentioned.<

It would be interesting to try. The Jensen is definitely inferior. The Lotus would dance around an RX-8 if for no other reason than it's 1200# lighter and has a very good suspension. The Cobra suspension is pretty primitive, but it has a 1000# advantage over the RX-8. So I don't know on that one. It would depend on exactly how you tested. Years ago I autocrossed with a buddy. He had an Elan, I had the Cobra. We were always #1 and #2 in A stock, which was the class at that time. When we got to the site we could walk the course and agree on who would win that day. If I had a chance to get the power down -- at least into 2nd gear -- I won. If not, he won.

>DSC option which is available in the Touring package. That also gets you larger brakes<

2004 brochure I have says the larger brakes are standard with the stick transmission. Ref DSC, I'm not sure whether I want some computer grabbing at the brakes if I get the car a little loose. Never tried it, but it just doesn't feel like I want that kind of help. I'd be very interested in any experienced autocrossers' comments on this.

> 'stupid' digital speedo<

From a human factors standpoint only. No intent to insult. Undeniable laboratory fact is that numbers take a human longer to comprehend than glancing at an analog gauge.

>no 'steel' rims are available<

How about in 17" or won't those go over the brakes? Seems criminal to run alloys in the winter with salt, etc. attacking them.

RodsterinFL

It is one of the best looking cars under $45K.


For $1,100 for the Sport Package on a 6spd, you would gain Self Leveling HID headlights, fog lights, and DSC which sounds like it best fits your criteria.

Touring pkg. adds the expensive radio (you don't care for) moonroof, an auto dimming mirror - for $2,700.

Grand Touring is basically leather, power seat and heat - seats and mirrors w/ all of the above.

I would look for a Sport Package model.


The digital speedo was weird to me too at first but actually I prefer it now - exact quick reference.


There does not seem to be any serious problems.

What color are you look at getting.

MELRX8

Q1) I don't see that I need any options at all. I am interested in handling and the base stick car seems to have everything sensible that's available short of the aftermarket. Right?
(A) Get the SPORT PACKAGE M/T, Fog lamps, Xenon headlights, and most of all Dynamic Stability control.

Q2) What's the first year reliability experience with the cars? Any real disaster areas?
(A) I've only had mine since April, put 6,000 uneventfull miles on it.

Q3) Will the 2005 eliminate that stupid digital speed readout? If so, that might be worth waiting for.
(A) I love the speedometer, I don't have to read it, I just SEE it!

Q4) Any problem finding steel wheels for snow tires? Is the offset or the bolt circle really odd? I am in Minnesota, so snowies are necessary.
(A) I'm changing to the Mazda dark chrome wheels so I'll put snow tires on the original wheels.

This is a great car "out of the box". Being an old fart myself, and lucky to live in the Pacific Northwest I have both mountains and ocean coastline to cruise.

Ellar

Why is everybody pushing the DSC on this guy? It's a safety thing, not a speed thing. There's a thread on here somewhere where someone did a track day with his 8, and the car was faster with it off.

Even if it was faster with it on, where's the skill and accomplishment in letting a computer drive the car for you? Hell, if I could opt out, I'd get rid of the ABS when I go to the dealer today to hopefully write up my lease.

mitty

>the car was faster with it off. <

So you can turn it off? Then I don't care one way or another ref the sport package. The DSC gadget might be handy in snow. Doesn't surprise me that it would slow a car down on a racetrack or autocross course. Braking has that effect. :-)

>Hell, if I could opt out, I'd get rid of the ABS<

I see the DSC totally differently than ABS. The thing that the ABS can do that we can't do from the brake pedal is to compensate for a transitory reduction in coefficient of friction on one wheel. And once you lock a wheel, it will tend to stay locked when it gets back on a good surface. Even in a race car with cockpit adjustable brake bias you still cannot change braking proportion left/right, which the ABS can. And you cannot change front/back very fast. So -- I am an ABS fan on street cars. I have never run ABS on a race car, so don't know what I would think of that. My guess is that it would not make much difference in the dry and in the wet it could be wonderful. Or, if it did not react quickly enough, it could make the car undriveable.

Ellar

Yeah, I was glad to see you could turn it off when I was researching the car, but in the end, I didn't want to pay what's probably $700 of a $1200-$4000 package for something I'd leave off all the time. I think it's useless even in the snow. I *really* take it easy in the snow. I don't think a car should be driven fast enough in traffic in the snow where the DSC would ever come into play. The DSC will just let you get up enough speed to get you in trouble when you have to stop. ABS will keep the wheels from locking up, but if there's no traction to be had, no computer in the world is going to change the laws of physics. Out of traffic, on a twisty side road, playing around with the limit of traction is a fun way to pass the time on what's going to be a long drive in any case.

I've never had a car do something really screwy because of different levels of traction at the different sides or corners of the car. I've been in the situation, but it really didn't throw me for a loop. You let off the brake a little, don't do anything stupid, and get on with stopping the car. The Fiero Formula I'm stepping up from was a remarkably stable car for it's short wheelbase, with excellent feedback from the controls. A bit of bump-steer, but I got used to that. Nothing made it do anything sudden and unexpected. I guess ABS could be a good Band-Aid for a poorer design.

Some antilock systems are worse than others. The system Nissan put in the Maxima totally sucks. I was driving around in the snow wondering why the hell it is buzzing the pedal when I'm *definately* not hitting the brake enough to skid a wheel. That's one of those freaky systems that pushes the pedal back up at you, too.

Ford has a really kick-*** ABS system. It stops the Crown Victoria amazingly fast while you're making stupidly violent steering inputs, and it's totally transparent. The only way you can tell you have ABS in that car is that you can't lock a wheel if you try.

I don't know if it's still true, but a while ago Chevy had a system on the rear brakes of their dually pick-up truck that actually made it stop way longer than if you disabled the system and locked up all the tires. Like the width of of a side street intersection longer.

Whatever, I'm sure the ABS isn't going to wipe away the big, stupid grin I'll be wearing next Friday or Saturday when my RX-8 comes in.

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

From one old fart to another....

Interceptor eh? Very nice, came this close to buying an 'FF' a LONG time ago....

DSC/traction control is my biggest suggestion, it is very good, almost seamless.
Plus the car is a different animal with it off, so you get two-for-one!

Like you, I was only interested in the base, high power and a limited slip. The Canadian package came with a lot of other junk, leather, Bose, big deal, but I really fell in love with the HID lights! Never had them before,"Who needs $1000 headlights?" but 'seeing is believing'! Wow, I wouldn't trade them for the best halogens in the world - no contest!

S

mitty

>Interceptor eh? Very nice, came this close to buying an 'FF' a LONG time ago....<

I just had it for about a year. Had some bodywork done, reshot it in silver Imron, and made a few thousand selling it. Kind of a fun car but keeping that Chrysler 440 from boiling over was a constant hassle. FF sounds to me like a car for a certifiable lunatic who either has or wants to be a full-time mechanic.

Had a Morris Minor woodie wagon for a while too. My dream for that was to find a bonked Lotus +2, cut 8" out of the chassis backbone and set the Morris bodywork on it. It would have fit nicely although the Lotus track was a bit wide. Never did it, but it would have been a helluva autocrosser. Almost square track/wheelbase ratio! Maybe a Cossie 1600 BDA with some mild cams -- a couple hundred HP .... :-)

>DSC/traction control is my biggest suggestion<

I'll be interested to try it. As long as I can turn it off I am not worried.

>fell in love with the HID lights<
My wife's TT coupe has them. To me they are nice but not a big deal. I'm more interested in really good high beams & driving lights to flush the deer out of the ditches on our late night trips to our lake place.

B-Nez

I've had my RX-8 for 14 months, 25K miles with no real problems. My A/C temp. **** broke a couple of weeks ago, but was replaced under warranty with the improved version. It has never flooded on me - even before all of the PCM updates - and my biggest headache has been repairing a gash in the door from a careless boob. Wait, that actually sounds kinda nice - make that a careless ***. I leave the DSC on in wet or damp road conditions, but rarely need it. It's a nice extra measure for safety, but when it is dry I always drive with DSC hard-killed. I would not say that someone bent on agility would 'definitely want the DSC option', but rather that someone who spends much time in inclement weather may find it to be worthwhile.

msrecant

Based on the average age for this forum I probably fall into the "old fart" catagory myself. I bought a 6 speed, GT RX-8 as a pre-order (sight unseen). Got one of the first in Richmond.


Mazda did a phenomenal job of tuning the basic car. So good, I believe they didn't leave much room for the after-market people to improve on. In terms of the Mazda options:

The main reason for the Sport Package is the TCS/DSC and xenon headlights. I have not had much use for the TCS/DSC system but I may drive too conservatively on the street to need it. For snow/ice conditions I hear it is excellent addition (not an issue here in Richmond).

Get the Touring Package if you want the moon roof. Nice (I came from a convertable) but not worth the cost in $s, added weight and lost head room. Get the GT package if you want the moonroof/leather/power seat. Personally I have been a bit disappointed by both the leather "trim" (not full leather) covering and the power seat comfort. One of the prices I paid for getting the pre-order.


As I said it was a pre-order so I have been through it all except that I have never flooded. Excellent reliability both mechanically and fit&finish. I have yet to have a defect that was not a version 1.0 problem. Also, the few version 1.0 kinks have been addressed by Mazda TSBs. Unlike many people on this forum I don't believe the flooding issue has been completely resolved by the "M" flash so I still avoid short trips (engine cold) as is still recommended by the TSB.


I don't think they will be changing this for 2005. I had experience with digital speedos in the 1980s (they were the rage) so the RX-8 was not a big deal and it does save space. However the RX-8 Instrument Clutter (not a spelling error) is still one of my hot buttons. It may be "way cool" but I would prefer my old Miata's simple/functional instrument layout any day. Warning, the oil pressure "gauge" is really an analog idiot light.


Search this forum for threads on snow tires and wheels. You will absolutely need them! I can personally attest to the fact that the stock wheels/tires make the car unsafe when there is any snow covering the road (it snowed once last January). They don't call them "summer" tires for no reason. I hear that with the proper wheels/tires the RX-8 is fine in snow/ice, particularly if you have the TCS/DSC.


Good luck!