kabir

I am trying to decide between a certified pre-owned or new RX-8 or a used 01 or 02 Lexus is300.

I have almost been certain that I really would like the RX-8 just for the cool factor alone, but recently every person I have talked to about it has told me not to get the rx-8. My uncle is a car dealer who sells rx-8’s and he told me not to buy one. He said that the resale value is horrible cuz mazda’s have crappy resale. He also said that the rotary engine is realllly expensive to maintain and to expect a trip to the dealership monthly. Also he said that the engine is pretty unreliable and they have issues a lot. Another discouraging point is that it doesn’t come with a spare tire and an additional spare tire kit takes up all the trunk space.

Now, ive browed a lot of the threads at the forums and haven’t heard any of these complaints. And the is300 holds strong resale and the Toyota engine is really good. Now, I still love the wow factor on the rx-8 and am still leaning towards it, but I would love some unbiased opinion and your experiences with the negatives of the rx-8 that I said before. (I would be getting the AT rx-8)

Jump120MPH

Get the Lexus if you are going to get the auto.

Overport

If your going to get a fun car with a manual tranny, go for the RX-8...sure, insurance will be a bit higher, but it's worth it. I personally dont see what's so stylish about an IS300, except for maybe the fact that it's a "Lexus". No offense, but your uncle sounds like a real idiot, the 13B Renesis engine is not at all expensive to maintain and is very reliable...just take decent care of the damn thing. I have the spare tire kit in the trunk and it does not take up alot of storage space.

Do me a favor and SLAP your uncle in the face for me...

goforwand

Your "uncle" is ignorant.

Back to the subject, when I test drove the IS was very unimpressed. What it lacks typical Lexus refinement is not made up in performance.

The resale value will be better with the IS because it is a Toyota (sorry, Lexus) but other than that, I think there are better choices than the IS, even if your "rotary expert" uncle convinces you to steer clear of the 8.

valpac

iTrader: (2)

Gonna be hard getting an "unbiased" opinion here. I don't think your uncle's opinions are based on personal experience and therefore should be discounted.
For what it's worth:
Rotary engines are some of the most reliable engines. Add oil and gas and they can run strong for 150K plus. My last RX car (7) I rebuilt the engine (replaced seals and springs) at 130K miles cuz it was smoking on startup. Ran that rebuilt hard (I mean hard) for another 90K miles. When I sold it it still ran strong but was smoking a little. I'm sure I could've rebuilt it again, but sold it anyway. Rotaries are something else!

The RX-8 Renesis is undoubtably a better engine than the 12A I had in my old RX-7 and should be as reliable, if not more.

RX Renesis

the resale value is low is cause they're japanese cars... unlike european cars which have a better resale value... and the IS300 is um... kinda getting old... it's being like 4 years or so and still no face lift... and yea go with a new car... u'll probally regret getting a 2nd hand...

RotaryNoob

Explain Honda and Toyota. They are both Japanese car companies with damn near the best resale value around.

Icemastr

Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Land Rover, Audi. All these companies are European and they have about the worst depreciation of any of the manufacturers in my opinion. But hey thats just me all I do is buy and sell cars for a living, what do I know...

livitup

I have never driven the IS300, as I took one look at it's styling and knew it wasn't the car for me. So I can't comment on it as I have no experience with it.

What I can do is debunk a couple myths you have about the RX-8.

Check out cars.com and do a search for 8's in your area. I just did it and I think they're holding up pretty well. I only know what MSRP was for my car, and I can't find one like mine on cars.com, so I can't say for sure, but do some research. Check Mazda's website to get MSRPs for particular option sets and then look on cars.com.

Sounds like something a car salesman would say... but I'm confused, you say he sells Mazdas???

Anyways, this just simply isn't true. I've been in the dealer twice for check engine lights, other than that it's just been routine maintenance and TSBs.

Well, it does come with a can of fix-a-flat. And roadside assistance. Seriously, I wouldn't let the lack of a spare tire worry about it too much. How many flat tires do you get?

In the end you've got to go with your gut. Do your research and make an informed decision. But when people say things like "the engines are crap and they are always in the shop" ask them for their evidence. You'll find that most people who make statements like that have nothing to back them up.

Good Luck.

---A

livitup

I'll second that... my Bimmer seems to be loosing about 5k a year. Ouch!

---A

markd

This talk of the RX-8 not holding its value goes counter to what Kelley Blue Book says: http://autos.msn.com/advice/article....windowshopping

The 8 is in the top 5 for holding value. I also agree with others here that the Renesis engine is one of the more reliable engines out there, if for no other reason than because there are fewer moving parts. There was a video around here of some guy revving up an old rotary engine that was on its last leg, and it still went on forever. Can't seem to find the thread, though.

I've never driven the IS300 so I can't attest to its performance, but I actually like the way it looks. I'm happy with my 8, though. Funny to say that Mazda wouldn't hold its value b/c its a Japanese car, considering Lexus is also a Japanese car.

Might be easier if you told us what you are looking for in your next car. We could probably give you a better opinion that way. Is it just the "cool" factor you're looking for?

kabir

thanks guys for the info. what you say makes sense. What im looking for exactly in a car is a sporty car. I really want 4 or more seats. i love the way coupe's look and my perfcect car would be a g35 coupe, but i dont have that kind of cash. I'm 16 and im getting a car as a reward for doing really well on my sat's among other things. I would get the AT cuz i wont be racing the car so its not a huge deal and also its cheaper and price is a huge factor. I also kinda think teh paddle shifts are sweet. this would be my car for the rest of my junior and senior years and on through college so its got to be a winner. the biggest factor in me chosing the car though is a car that i can be proud to tell people its MINE!

Ike

You may want to take a look at the Consumer reports thread in the media section of this forum, it's certainly not going to help the resale value. Your uncle may not be as far off base as many people on this forum would like to think. Even if cosumer reports says it's not reliable just about every car on the road today is pretty reliable compared to years past. However if you want proven reliability and proven resale value get the IS.

Lastly, if you're set on getting an AT get the IS300 unless looks are by far the most important thing to you and you think the RX-8 is the best looking of the bunch.

BlueFrenzy

MT and AT are the same price here in Canada and I believe the US as well. Who ever is selling the AT for cheaper is ripping you off (it's usually the other way around .. MT cheaper). I didn't know MT before I got the 8 but I'm doing fine now and I don't regret a for a moment.

Like the other guys said, the engine is very reliable unless you put rocks and bubble gum into gas tank. But hey, I don't know any engine that would be reliable if you put rocks into it. And a trip to the dealership monthy?? What to kiss the dealer for getting you an AWESOME car? Maybe I need to do monthly visits too ... dang if only that cute receptionist still worked there.

I'm sure if you look hard enough in the IS300 forums, you'll find "issues" with that car as well. Each car has it's quirks.

GiN

Get the IS300. It's a great car if it's going to be your first car, and will save you a bit of cash because you're buying it used. That way you'll have more money available for your first-time-drivers' insurance policy. Plus, you can tell people it has the same beefy motor as the Supra from the late 90's.

If I was 16 again and had to choose between the RX-8 and the IS300, I'd definitely go for the IS300. Actually, I'd go for something even older like a SC300 or 300ZX or Supra or RX-7 or 240SX. That way I wouldn't be so worried about potentially wrecking something so new and expensive! :D

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

get the IS300

I don't want some 16 year old kid go out and wreck a perfectly brand new RX-8, even if it is the neutered version of RX-8. Go wreck a used Toyota instead.

driven both cars (the IS300 on a track, even), compared to the 6 speed rx-8, it's not nearly as fast in stock form, and it feels more sluggish in the corners, though it does handle well enough, thanks to RWD.

thanks.

quack_p

Hmmm, I have the spare tire kit and it DOES take up a lot of storage space. Maybe your trunk is bigger than mine.

Cars in this class, not just the RX-8, don't have a lot of trunk space in general. In fact, Consumer Reports has this info available for free on its website. Check it out.

RX8CaliGirl

If you're a 16-year old strapping lad, how can you NOT want an RX-8? These cars are BEAUTIFUL. F the Lexus. The RX-8 is a damn sexy car. I get tons of looks from people every single day (and I get lots of guys hitting on me, although if you're a guy, you probably don't want guys hitting on you but I'm sure women might do the same!).

Also, you can (comfortably) fit three of your friends in your car, as I have many times. I have to scrunch up a bit but its worth it. We have a great time in that car and I absolutely love my RX-8.

Regarding your questions: Resale - well, who can really say as long as you take great care of the car as you should. Rotary engine - its actually MUCH more reliable than you'd think. Spare tire kit - I was nervous about that as well (esp. as a female) but Mazda does have free roadside assistance and they do provide a spare tire kit and its not worth the space in your trunk.

Speaking as another young person, I think this car is the coolest, sexiest car for young folks and I am proud that I bought this car with my very hard-earned money (not a nickle from my parents) and can call it my first car AND the first thing I've really truly owned.

Like Whoa

i also had a choice between a brand new is300 and a rx8. my parents wanted me to pick the lexus is300, i obviously didnt. it just wasnt my kind of car. i'm very happy with the decision i made. but in the long run i think the is300 would've been better.

valpac

iTrader: (2)

compare the crash tests.

2002 IS300- http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/1864.html

2005 RX-8- http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/3207.html

Both have 4 stars, front driver crash rating, but RX-8 head criterion is lower while the femur load is higher. I'd rather have a broken leg than a broken skull (my opinion)

Chest deceleration goes to the RX-8

But check out the pelvic deceleration. IS300 get 5 stars w/ 90g-front occ, 64g-rear occ. while the RX-8 only got 4 Stars w/ 65g-front occ., 53g-rear occ. I know Note 2 says that it wasnt used in calculating side star rating but clearly the nod goes to the RX-8. Also, no side head injury criterion for IS300. (?)

NO rollover test for the IS300, wonder why?

Clearly the safer car is the RX-8. Take that to your parents.

Gambit

Kabir...I think i can give you something close to unbiased because I narrowed my choice down to those two when I bought. Here's a few things:

Saw an article on MSN or somewhere that listed the RX-8 as one of the top ten value-retaining cars for the next 5 years -conversely- The IS300 will be recieving a facelift about a year from now, which will drive down the cost of the current style because it will be old

The Mazda will have a warranty for a few years longer than the Lexus because the Lexus is already a few years old.

The back seats are about the same because the lex has bucket seats in the back and the middle is practically useless anyway, may as well have the console and cupholders

The trunks are about the same size, and the seats don't fold down on either

The gauges on the Mazda look a lot better - personal opinion, but the lexus one was annoying

The rx-8 is faster and handles better, the IS says it has 215 horsepower, but doesn't feel like it

Mazdas are not crappy, mazdas made by FORD are crappy - this is not one of them, it comes from Japan

TRZ750

You only live once. Buy what makes you happy. Ignore everything else!

BillK

Cars are not an investment. If you think your RX-8 or BMW are depreciating quickly, check the depreciation rate of most any domestic. In addition to the 20%-30% hit you take with any new car the millisecond you drive off the lot, many domestics lose up to 50% of their value over the next few years.

Also, on the issue of a spare tire, rather than ask how many flats you've had, a much better question is what a flat whenever you've been driving would have meant to you, and if you have had a flat what kind of flat it was.

The silly can of sealant will only work to repair a tread puncture; if you've ever had a sidewall puncture, you would have been stuck.

Likewise, where do you drive? If it's always in areas where your cell phone works and in urban/suburban areas, a can of sealant and roadside assistance may be enough; if you ever drive through sparsely populated areas, it may not be. Think of waiting four hours or more for roadside assistance, if you can call for it. There are many areas, especially in the western U.S., where that may reflect an ideal scenario...

zevans

Er... surely it's a safer car because it has better brakes, it's lighter and nimbler, and the DSC is one of the best out there.

If you're in a crash it's no good comparing crash test figures - it's too bloody late by then.

valpac

iTrader: (2)

thats why you let the crash test dummies do it first.