Owner Comparison: RX7-TT, M3, S4, S2k, RX8
08-08-2003, 12:36 PM
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Owner Comparison: RX7-TT, M3, S4, S2k, RX8
Hi, this is my first post to this board although I've been lurking for about 2 months.
I traded in my Stook for an RX8 earlier in the week and have listed a few of the cars that Ive owned over the past 78-8 years. I consider all of them to be great cars - just wish I could own more than one (come on Lotto).
Like many others here, cars on my hot list were the new S4, current gen M3, Boxster S, Subaru STi, 350Z, G35C, RX8. I basically narrowed my choices to the last and test drove the STi, G35C and RX8. My quick synopsis on each of them:
RX7: Very fast but there was lag for each turbo, great handling but harsh, great design both interior and exterior. My 95 was much better in terms of solidity (rubber bushings, etc.) compared to MY93 and MY94.
M3: Great looking, never felt as fast to me as the numbers would indicate, great handling, superb steering feel, nice interior design but iffy parts quality. Great seats even with the touring package. I went thru a lot tires with this car (very low profile) and had problems with constant wheel alignments.
S4: Great speed, handled better and more secure the faster you went (superb car @ 100+ MPH). Best interior on the planet. But always felt too heavy and less agile than the other cars I've listed. Nose heavy and unbalanced (my main complaint). For some reason, young kids loved the look of this German sedan.
S2K: My first convertible. Superb handling. Suspension tweaks in MY2002 made the back-end much more stable but reduced turn-in. Quick in VTEC land; relatively slow but smooth when not. Engine atypical of other Hondas - a little rough in terms of NVH. Really good steering but different - you have to get used to electric-assist steering. Much praise on the transmission - I thought it was good for sure but I don't think it redefined the genre as some suggested. Great car with the top down (sharp looking, open air, good protection from wind buffeting) but not so good with top up (really noisy, claustrophobic, crap sound system).
STi: Oh, that power is really addicting. Love the look inside and outside other than the obnoxious wing. Handling very flat but steering was so-so...very camber sensitive. Love AWD. Car has some very neat trick (but not gimmicky) features such as controllable center diff, the intercooler spray, adjustable headlight angle, etc. Low on creature comforts as expected for a rally car (no leather, no sunroof, no audio system). And very intrusive (punishing) tire noise. I was fully prepared to buy this car (had seen the RX8 but had not driven it yet) but was concerned that the noise and lack of creature comforts would wear on me, and I couldn't get a deal I liked.
G35C: Like most, I love the exterior except for the back end. What is with Nissan designers? It's like they work on the front 3/4 of the car from Monday until Friday @ 2.00 and then they realize they're late for the pub, so they slap some ugly *** rear end on the car over the next 30 mintes and leave. It's my big complaint about the 35Z also - I hate the back-end - it looks like a 70's AMC Pacer (and that's a bad thing in any universe). I thought it drove very well, nice interior...my biggest concern was the weight...coming from the 2800 lb. S2K, this car just felt a bit big and heavy and I prefer small and light.
RX8: Liked the styling but I can understand some of the complaints about some of the angles. Really like the interior design especially the full length cetner console. Handling is better than I expected and I like the sterring better than the S2k (very precise but still has a trace of the "feel" that comes with electric assist). Ignoring the rwhp controversy, I think the acceleration is very good and I'm still in the break-in period. It must be the gearing as the torque feels stronger than the S2K with both having similar figures and the RX8 having a weight disadvantage. As a previous RX7 owner, I agree with those that think that nothing compares to a rotary...the smoothness, the sound, etc. Great driving position in the 8. It just feels good driving it. I do have a nasty rattle already so like others, I'm worried about first year bugs. But the bottom line for me is that the overall package (style, performance, quality, utility, price, comfort, handling, etc.) was just unbeatable. I actually feel the car is underpriced. As a side note, it had been awhile since I've been to a Mazda dealership, but I had a similar view of the 6 - that package is also hard to beat at the price.
Well I guess that's enough rambling. For those that managed to stay awake until the end of the this thread, you're to be commended.
Mike
I traded in my Stook for an RX8 earlier in the week and have listed a few of the cars that Ive owned over the past 78-8 years. I consider all of them to be great cars - just wish I could own more than one (come on Lotto).
Like many others here, cars on my hot list were the new S4, current gen M3, Boxster S, Subaru STi, 350Z, G35C, RX8. I basically narrowed my choices to the last and test drove the STi, G35C and RX8. My quick synopsis on each of them:
RX7: Very fast but there was lag for each turbo, great handling but harsh, great design both interior and exterior. My 95 was much better in terms of solidity (rubber bushings, etc.) compared to MY93 and MY94.
M3: Great looking, never felt as fast to me as the numbers would indicate, great handling, superb steering feel, nice interior design but iffy parts quality. Great seats even with the touring package. I went thru a lot tires with this car (very low profile) and had problems with constant wheel alignments.
S4: Great speed, handled better and more secure the faster you went (superb car @ 100+ MPH). Best interior on the planet. But always felt too heavy and less agile than the other cars I've listed. Nose heavy and unbalanced (my main complaint). For some reason, young kids loved the look of this German sedan.
S2K: My first convertible. Superb handling. Suspension tweaks in MY2002 made the back-end much more stable but reduced turn-in. Quick in VTEC land; relatively slow but smooth when not. Engine atypical of other Hondas - a little rough in terms of NVH. Really good steering but different - you have to get used to electric-assist steering. Much praise on the transmission - I thought it was good for sure but I don't think it redefined the genre as some suggested. Great car with the top down (sharp looking, open air, good protection from wind buffeting) but not so good with top up (really noisy, claustrophobic, crap sound system).
STi: Oh, that power is really addicting. Love the look inside and outside other than the obnoxious wing. Handling very flat but steering was so-so...very camber sensitive. Love AWD. Car has some very neat trick (but not gimmicky) features such as controllable center diff, the intercooler spray, adjustable headlight angle, etc. Low on creature comforts as expected for a rally car (no leather, no sunroof, no audio system). And very intrusive (punishing) tire noise. I was fully prepared to buy this car (had seen the RX8 but had not driven it yet) but was concerned that the noise and lack of creature comforts would wear on me, and I couldn't get a deal I liked.
G35C: Like most, I love the exterior except for the back end. What is with Nissan designers? It's like they work on the front 3/4 of the car from Monday until Friday @ 2.00 and then they realize they're late for the pub, so they slap some ugly *** rear end on the car over the next 30 mintes and leave. It's my big complaint about the 35Z also - I hate the back-end - it looks like a 70's AMC Pacer (and that's a bad thing in any universe). I thought it drove very well, nice interior...my biggest concern was the weight...coming from the 2800 lb. S2K, this car just felt a bit big and heavy and I prefer small and light.
RX8: Liked the styling but I can understand some of the complaints about some of the angles. Really like the interior design especially the full length cetner console. Handling is better than I expected and I like the sterring better than the S2k (very precise but still has a trace of the "feel" that comes with electric assist). Ignoring the rwhp controversy, I think the acceleration is very good and I'm still in the break-in period. It must be the gearing as the torque feels stronger than the S2K with both having similar figures and the RX8 having a weight disadvantage. As a previous RX7 owner, I agree with those that think that nothing compares to a rotary...the smoothness, the sound, etc. Great driving position in the 8. It just feels good driving it. I do have a nasty rattle already so like others, I'm worried about first year bugs. But the bottom line for me is that the overall package (style, performance, quality, utility, price, comfort, handling, etc.) was just unbeatable. I actually feel the car is underpriced. As a side note, it had been awhile since I've been to a Mazda dealership, but I had a similar view of the 6 - that package is also hard to beat at the price.
Well I guess that's enough rambling. For those that managed to stay awake until the end of the this thread, you're to be commended.
Mike
08-08-2003, 02:24 PM
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Thanks guys. I've learned a lot from this board so I'm glad that I can share some of my experiences in return.
Kry - if it helps, I've also had my share of warts when I was younger! Chevy Vega (required a case of oil in the trunk at all times, aka the car that immediately explodes upon a rear collision - nice), Ford Escort (ah, yes the 4speed "World Car" that couldn't accelerate out of its own way)...oh and yes, I did drive my wife's minivan for a couple of months while I was between cars.
Kry - if it helps, I've also had my share of warts when I was younger! Chevy Vega (required a case of oil in the trunk at all times, aka the car that immediately explodes upon a rear collision - nice), Ford Escort (ah, yes the 4speed "World Car" that couldn't accelerate out of its own way)...oh and yes, I did drive my wife's minivan for a couple of months while I was between cars.
08-08-2003, 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by IrishNutter
Kry - if it helps, I've also had my share of warts when I was younger! Chevy Vega (required a case of oil in the trunk at all times, aka the car that immediately explodes upon a rear collision - nice), Ford Escort (ah, yes the 4speed "World Car" that couldn't accelerate out of its own way)...oh and yes, I did drive my wife's minivan for a couple of months while I was between cars.
Kry - if it helps, I've also had my share of warts when I was younger! Chevy Vega (required a case of oil in the trunk at all times, aka the car that immediately explodes upon a rear collision - nice), Ford Escort (ah, yes the 4speed "World Car" that couldn't accelerate out of its own way)...oh and yes, I did drive my wife's minivan for a couple of months while I was between cars.
i got a 2000 Celica GT-S 6spd and yesterday i just bought a 93 RX7 TT
i do drive my girlfriend's 1965 mini cooper sometime.
btw i am surprised u didn't test drive the EVO 8
Last edited by kry; 08-08-2003 at 02:39 PM.
08-08-2003, 04:25 PM
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Personally I think the M3 would be a no brainer. I love the RX-8's looks and the rotary tech. But if I had the financial means to own an e46 M3, I would go that route in a heartbeat. Style, Muscle, and a BMW!! Yeah, the engines have a high failure rate surprisingly (oh well). I admit i'm a biased BMW driver. I plan on leasing or buying a RX-8 in a year or so. I'll see how it goes. Going to try and learn as much as I can about the 8 here first. Glad I found this site.
08-08-2003, 09:01 PM
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Kyng, it was my 98 M3 (E36).
Murgen, I agree that the E46 M3 would be my first choice also but I didn't feel like dropping $50K. Also being an ex-S4 owner, the new V8 S4 crossed my mind as well, but again it's just too heavy for my tastes and upper $40Ks. I also wasn't impressed with the Audi resale value (even with the S4 being universally praised); on the other hand my M3's resale value was unbelievable. Nothing holds their value as well as the BMW M cars. As I said in my initial post, I need to hit the lottery, then I can have my M6, 911 Turbo, M5, Phaeton, S8, STi and RX8.
Murgen, I agree that the E46 M3 would be my first choice also but I didn't feel like dropping $50K. Also being an ex-S4 owner, the new V8 S4 crossed my mind as well, but again it's just too heavy for my tastes and upper $40Ks. I also wasn't impressed with the Audi resale value (even with the S4 being universally praised); on the other hand my M3's resale value was unbelievable. Nothing holds their value as well as the BMW M cars. As I said in my initial post, I need to hit the lottery, then I can have my M6, 911 Turbo, M5, Phaeton, S8, STi and RX8.
08-08-2003, 09:39 PM
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I agree. the Ms are $$$. I couldn't afford a e46 M at the time so I bought a used 330ci. I Love it. In a year or two I'll get a used e46 M3 or a new RX-8. I hope the RX-8 proves to be reliable. We'll see over the coming year.
08-09-2003, 07:58 AM
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Great review IrishNutter, I'm actually only a little surprised that you were at all impressed with the g35 interior. Like everything else being created by Nissan this is clearly their area to cut corners. I personally think the materials border on terrible. This alone is probably going to be a dividing point or decision maker in favor of the RX-8 for a lot of folks.
08-10-2003, 07:24 PM
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I looked at the Evo8 but decided to go Sti if I was going to choose the rally car route for two reasons: Evo8 interior just way too plain (even compared to the STi) and many of my friends had quality problems with their Mitsus.
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