DonG35Miata

Ordered my RX-8 today. Titanium Grey, black cloth and touring package. Decided I wanted a roof... also realize that based on what I have read so far, there is a fair chance I won't be thrilled with the interior or driving experience and won't take delivery. Wouldn't want to stick my dealer with a stripper, they are good guys over there.

Mine was the only RX-8 order they got. No one else even came in. It is a small family-owned dealership, but in an upscale suburb of Pittsburgh and the dealer has a great reputation. People living nearby have money. Just little interest from them. The dealer was calling me constantly to get me to come in and order, and only took a $100 deposit. (Now I know I get a test drive for sure... )I think they were afraid no one was going to order one and really needed to get one in. Honestly, I was not all that enthused to go in and order the car after the lackluster reviews of the driving experience and the interior. I stopped at the VW dealer on the way home and was thinking I may actually get more enjoyment from adding a new GTI 1.8T to my fleet rather than an RX-8. I know it is a blast to drive (I had a 2000 model) plus it has a high-grade interior, FWD for winter driving, and a hatch for utility. Plus $9,000 less LOL.

It does not seem like the RX-8 is a must-have car in the way of the first-gen
RX-7, Miata, or lately and to a lesser extent, the 350Z. I'm starting to wonder if I should have waited to get one off the lot at a discount. I hope the upcoming reviews of the production models get me excited again!

Good Duck

Where did you read that? Honestly, have some faith in the company that produced fine machines such as the RX-7 and Miata. While it might not be the acceleration rocket like the Subaru WRX STi, it will out handle most other cars out there. Why do I say this? One look at the Mazda's Miyoshi Proving Ground will show you Mazda’s dedication to developing great handling sport cars. If you are still in doubt, I’ll post a video that will demonstrate the RX-8 handling prowess. Look for it the Multimedia section shortly.

I have faith in the wizards at Mazda to do right with the RX-8. Beside, it’s drop dead gorgeous.

tallguylehigh

*drool*

DonG35Miata

Good Duck asked: Automobile Magazine: "doesn't feel particularly entertaining" regarding the handling.

Car, U.K. : engine feels "unremarkable" in its power delivery

Motor Trend: Lacks the edge of the 350Z.

Car and Driver: 0-60 estimates in the mid-6 second range

I haven't seen much fawning over the RX-8, which is what one likes to see in a performance car review.

See my post Damning with faint praise? and revhappy's excellent reply. It sums it up pretty well IMHO.

Fëakhelek

Don,

I haven't ordered yet but I have nearly settled on my configuration: Titanium Grey, black cloth and touring package.

Looks like I can't drive around Pittsburgh anymore. :D :D :D

DonG35Miata

Since I ordered last night I am starting to get psyched. I'm counting on Mazda delivering the goods and making something that is exciting to drive, not merely fast, comfortable and competent. But if it doesn't turn me on when I sit in it and drive it, it will be staying at the dealership.... and if the 0-60 time is over 6.5 seconds I won't even consider it...

kwolfman

What is it with everybody and the performance specs? "...and if the 0-60 time is over 6.5 seconds I won't even consider it..."

To give you some perspective, when I purchased my 1981 RX-7 brand new, it had 105 HP, 100 flb torque and weighed about 2345 lbs (without my big butt). It wasn't the fastest off the line. It probably had a 0-60 well over 6.5 seconds, but it was a blast to drive. It loved to be pushed hard. Cornering and handling were so much fun.

I personally don't need to prove my man-hood by drag racing every dork I meet at a traffic light. Just give me reasonable acceleration (subjective I know) and great handling. I think the RX-8 will deliver those qualities. It will be a blast.

All the magazine and online reports you've read are on pre-production cars from a few months ago. My guess is Mazda is dramatically fine tuning the suspensions before full production starts up in a few months. They have lots of time to tweak.

Personally, I'm not concerned about its performance. I trust Mazda. My RX-7 lasted me 21 years (until I sold it) and I loved it every day (except trying to get it through emissions testing...go Renesis!)

psukhu

I don't read into what the critics say at this point. They are not really considering the price of the car. What else is there (RWD, manual, 4 seater) for ~ $30K?

Plus, these are the same critics that test drive super cars like the new Enzo Ferrari or the 911 turbo on a regular basis. They will easily find faults with the RX-8.

I think it will be a different story when they test the RX-8 as a production car with a section in the specs listing the MSRP.

DonG35Miata

It isn't about proving manhood at traffic lights. I don't drag race AT ALL. It is about being competitive in the marketplace and getting performance comparable to competitors around the same price point. If the RX-8 is about as quick as Accord/Mazda 6 V6 sedans it will not be providing adequate go for the $ and car class IMHO. This isn't a sedan... it IS a specialty sports car, and it should outperform a comparably priced sedan. You pay more for the car, more for the insurance, more for the maintenance, and give up space. There should be a noticeable difference in performance.

If Mazda wants to call it a sports car, I am going to hold them to that standard. It looks for certain that it will be significantly less quick than a comparably priced 350Z or G35 coupe, but I can live with that. For the $30k that my car will cost, though, I think 0-60 in 6 flat is not out of line. A heavier G35 sedan with automatic does 0-60 in just a few more ticks than that. Surely a 6-speed RX-8 should be able to do 6.0 to 60. When Mazda promoted the concept car, they started at 5.0 to 60, then 6.0 with the first RX-8 development models, now we are up to low-mid 6s for production models. Weight is around 150lbs heavier than we were expecting. Not a good trend, and I have not forgotten about the Miatas that were around 10% under their advertised hp a year or two ago.

I want to test drive my RX-8, fall in love with it, and take it home. I've been thinking about it more and more lately and can't wait for it to get in. But based on what I have read in the media, I am going in with both eyes open.

BTW, I had a 1981 RX-7 too. Fun, sure... but easily outperformed in a straight line AND in the curves by today's econoboxes. You need to compare to class to class within a generation. A great car for its time, but sad to say pretty crude today. I almost bought a used one and upon a test drive, I realized some things are left as memories in the past...

DonG35Miata

PS According to Car and Driver, 1981 RX-7 did 0-60 in 9.6 seconds for a GS 5-speed, over 10 for the heavier GSL. I have the back issues...

Fëakhelek

What is with everybody downplaying the performance specs. If you want a car that is a blast to drive and low on power then you can get that from a Miata. The RX cars at least since the 3rd generation about handling and speed. The RX-8 shouldn't just be a 4 seat Miata. I know that it is not a replacement for the RX-7, but it is still an RX and that should mean something. Sometimes people act like the 350Z is an 80's Camero or something. Cars with torque and fast 0-60 and 1/4 mile are not evil and you don't have to be a stoplighting punk to want power in a sports car. I don't want an MG or a Miata. I also don't want a Camero or Mustang. If I can't have a new RX-7 (or maybe just choose to have 4 seats) that doesn't mean I want to have to make excuses to people about how my car doesn't need to be fast and tell them that they just don't get it. If the RX-8 wasn't supposed to be a powerful car then Mazda wouldn't be making a big deal about 247 horsepower.

That's not to say that I don't think the the RX-8 will be a great car. However, I understand why people want it to have some kick and I agree with Don that if it performs like a 6 then it won't be worth it. Then it will be all show and no go. Hell, any car on the market now looks like a miracle sports car compared to something from the 40's but you have to compare to what is out there now to tell if it is worth 30k.

revhappy

Amen..preach on brother

I still think this car has plenty of power to deliver excellent performance, but the weight and gearing just may bring it down. To me, the numbers Buger put up for acceleration for an ~3000 lb. car are borderline acceptable IF the car handles amazingly.

When I say amazingly, I mean exciting, near tops in its price range for SPORTS CARS (this car advertizes itself as such). I'm sure they can make it comfortable and stable, but sports cars are meant to be exhilirating. This is my biggest concern, based on these reviews and the advertizing on the mazda site (a lot of emphasis put on non-performance/sports car things). Since this car is trying to do alot of different things, I don't think its unfair to be skeptical. $27-30K is still a lot of money and I don't like buying new cars very often!

kwolfman

My appologies to DonG35Miata. I didn't mean to jump down his throat about the 6.5 second performance spec. I was just reacting to his yes/no decision about one specific performance spec. I just wanted to state that, for me, I consider the whole spectrum of performance for a car before I say yes/no.

My bringing up my 81 RX7 was an example of this. Yes, 0-60 was somewhere around 9.5 seconds and there were times when I would have liked a little more umph, but that didn't deter me from really liking the car. Sure, by today's standards, the 81 RX7 was really quite primative, but in some sense that was part of its appeal. It had the feeling of 60's British sports car with its ox cart ride (quite a pounding in the kidneys). It was quick reving and would take a pounding too. I found that if I hadn't driven it for a while, it felt stiff, but drive it hard for a bit, it would loosen up and seem to ask for more.

As Mazda has stated, the RX8 is not an RX7. I expect great performance, but not necessarily in every category. For me, this car has a practical side too. 4-doors serves my family well (as did 2 doors back in 81). If it gives me the fun of driving feel like my RX7 did, I'll be happy.

nk_Rx8

Yeah...what he said. My thoughts exactly.

m477

The performance of the RX-8 hasn't really been tested yet. Every magazine had only a few minutes with a rough "far from production" version of the car. IIRC, Nissan did the same thing with the 350z early on and got similar mixed reviews.

When the production version is actually given a full test by magazines, I think that the results will be very good. However, make sure your deposits are refundable just in case.

SmokingClutch

The problem is that your basic family sedan has gotten so good and so fast that it's difficult to justify a sports car that isn't any faster.

The last time this happened was the late 60s - a lot of people would shy away from an MGB when for the same price you could get a Plymouth Roadrunner that was much faster in a straight line.

In the 70s and 80s, sports cars handily outperformed family sedans which rarely had anything more than 120 hp.

However, in 2003, the Honda Accord has 240 hp instead of 102 hp. The Mazda 6 has 220 hp to the old 626's 110 hp. The Nissan Altima is capable of a sub-six-second 0-60 time and a quarter mile time deep in the 14s. This was all unimaginable just ten or even five years ago.

But while these cars are fast in a straight line, and even their handling numbers look good, they still are no substitute for a truly sporting car. The Mazda 6 comes closest, but it still is FWD and isn't class leading in acceleration anyway.

It's the driving pleasure that separates the RX-8 and 350Z, not the numbers. What do you want, 0-60 in 4.5s in a $30,000 car? We are probably probing the limits of performance in a mass market car.

Like has been said before, how many other RWD, 250 hp cars can be had that weigh under 3000 lbs, and have a manual transmission, for $27,000? I'm not expecting the razor's edge handling of the RX-7, in fact that's probably a good thing as the FD would put an unexperienced driver right in the weeds when pushed. The longer wheelbase and more linear power delivery will serve to keep the shiny side up and the pointy end forward.

If you're worried about your manhood, keep in mind that something like 75-80% of those "oh so fast" family sedans order the 4 cylinder with the automatic transmission, so you won't need to worry about getting burned by every Accord you see.

nk_Rx8

And sometimes driving pleasure involves power and speed. A sub 6sec 0-60 is all that was expected. Some of us may even want to roadrace/autocross it occasionally too.


None now and maybe none later seeing as how the car may actually weigh 3000+lbs.


Some of us aren't inexperienced and would like it to handle as well. And I actually don't doubt that it will. It's the power that's more in question.

It's not a question of manhood. It's what some of us expected from a car that is marketed as a $30k 'sportscar'. Like someone said in an earlier post, I would also just get a Miata if I wanted a car that was very fun and didn't care about power. You should get the lower performance engine. The lower one should be good enough for you. Car will handle the same. Just as fun for you. If they come out with a Mazdaspeed version or enhance the engine in a year or two or ten years from now, don't get it because you don't need it. That's fine. But some of us will.

Feakhelek's post sums it up perfectly as to why many have asked for more power. For some it may not be an issue, but there is nothing wrong with wanting more, especially since many of us were hoping that this new resurrection of the rotary would top the 3rd gen RX7 in every way (both handling and power).

I also wanted to say that that was the knock on the NSX also. It really is marvel of technology and handles like a dream. But for the cost, compared to competition, people said that it is lacking in power. And it is exactly what a couple acquaintances (sp?) who actually do own cars in the price range and above have said and their money has gone elsewhere.

And all critiqueing aside, I am still considering this car and will wait to drive it before any decisions are made. And the expressing of opinions whether they be praise or criticism is part of the fun of waiting for a car launch. It gives everyone something to discuss about the car while waiting for it to show up.

jeremy

you guys bitch about the 0-60 time and you might push mazda into doing what toyota did to the celica, extend 1st and 2nd so there is only 1 gear change but dropped it out of the powerband. so now you have a better 0-60 but 1/4 mi suffers and the overall feel of the car is upset. autoxer's get irritated, drag racer's get irritated, and your average joe is annoyed as well. you need to look at the overall picture, not one part. if the car can way under the z and fit compensating and/or the same tire widths, the cornering of this car will be better then the fd with its stiffer chassis let alone decimate the z in cornering g's. also for us modding enthusiasts, we all know that rotaries love to breath freely. not sure how bottled the cats are on it, but a freer flowing exhaust will probably yield far better results then the z. and you can have 2 more friends along for this g seeking prowess.

nk_Rx8

Most of us are very familiar with 'the whole package'. We use 0-60 because it is an indicator that is very familiar to most people. If I wanted all out drag car power, I would have asked for nothing less than a 5.0 sec 0-60 minimum. A 6 sec 0-60 is not that fast and not too much to expect from a $30k 'sportscar'. I could just as easily say I want faster 0-50 and 5/8 mile times. It doesn't matter to me what the measurements are. But they still are an indication of the car's potential and a point of comparison to other cars.
Also no, we don't want the 1/4 mile time to suffer for 0-60 also. Last thing we need is a 5 sec 0-60 and a 17sec 1/4 mile time. I want both. I want power every where. I want 30mph- 80mph power. I want it to out power the 3rd gen RX7 on the straightaway and outhandle it on the curves. The 3rd gen was the car I had my eye on for years, but was scared to buy it due to reliability issues. My friend actually bought one last year and I was jealous. But the first time we took it out on the roadcourse, it blew a seal and he sold it 2 weeks later. So I never really wanted to buy one again after that.
And the car companies would never bring over Type-R's, ST's, Evo, etc if people didn't ask for more. Bring on the Mazdaspeed for us who want more. Everyone else can just be happy with what they have. Just realize that different people want/expect different things. Someone that just wants a great handling, peppy, rear wheel car that can carry passengers will be happy as a clam with a automatic base model. I'm happy for them. But I may want a little more.
And what's funny is, you are already talking about modding. Why? It's got plenty of power for you remember?

Fëakhelek

Speaking of passengers, I had a funny thought. There are posts all through the forum on the weight of the car with people wondering if it will weigh 2900 lbs or 3000 lbs and many will be disappointed if it is 3000. Even if it is 2900 as soon as somebody gets in the passenger seat it won't make a difference, let alone putting 2 people in the back. That at least is one advantage a car with higher torque has: heavier passengers will have less effect.

The funny part is this. I have never autocrossed so I can't be sure but I've never heard anyone talk about the driver's weight. Now I have this picture stuck in my head of a autocrosser going on a crash diet to get ready for a race so he can drop 10 or 20 lbs from his car's weight. :D Somehow I just can't imagine all autocross drivers looking like horse racing jockeys. Imagine a bunch of 5'4" 100 lb guys hanging out talking about their race wins. :D

zoom44

imagine them autocrossing with 3 other people in the car hahaha:D

DonG35Miata

Hahhaha? What's so funny? It is a GREAT idea! A four person showroom stock racing series... one driver, and three ballast. Now the whole family can enjoy the adrenaline rush, competitiveness, and danger of racing! The car does have "suicide doors"...

You will need 4x the ambulances at the races though... but it raises the stakes and makes it even more exciting. After the crash you will still be in suspense after the driver exits the car OK... what better way to show off the four door, four seat sports car? (announcer) Daddy is getting out of the car... looks like he is OK! But what about mommy... and little Billy and little Suzy? :p

zoom44

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DonG35Miata
[QUOTE]imagine them autocrossing with 3 other people in the car hahaha

Quote:

What's so funny? It is a great idea!

yeah that should have been hahaha"wouldn't that be cool" not hahaha "that's funny". now if anyone wants to use the idea remember i said it first! :p :D

DonG35Miata

See my edited post, zoom... we could be on to something big...

nk_Rx8

My friends and I have joked about taking a big dump before going out there just to try to lose 5lbs!:D