Puppy1

Per rotary news:
"Know this however, this car has impressed two hard core rotorheads. This is a rotary sports car, while not a replacement for the raw FD3S RX-7, it is a refined, well tuned, predictable car, that it it's soul is a rotary."

If two Roto heads who have actually driven the car are giving it thumbs up, we can all calm down a little.

"Can't we all just get along"

*PUTS FLAME RETARDENT SUIT ON*

Hercules

[sarcasm]
NO!!!! We need to see NUMBERS BECAUSE THATS WHAT MAKES A CAR GOOD!
[/sarcasm]

NashuaCLS

I will wait for the 300+HP MazdaSpeed Version...

DonG35Miata

Hate to bring this up, but it sounds like more damning with faint praise.

Those aren't the adjectives I wanted to hear. How about "exciting"? "Thrilling?" "Dynamic?" "sharp-handling?" "Must-have car of 2003?"

Their enthusiasm seemed quite contained. Sure, it is not an FD, but they could have said, "It's not an FD, but exciting in its own way..." or "It's not an FD, but it is a blast to drive..."

I look forward to the full review, but nothing was said here to alleviate my concerns about the driving character of the car. If anything, they moved me towards confirmation of them.

Hercules

Don, if he wrote all the juicy details in the blurb people would start making up all kinds of ideas in their head and out loud bout the car..

Oh wait, you alreadi did that :p

T-von

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hercules
[B]I have to laugh at the comment that the Z will romp the 8 on the track... it's just sad you believe that.




Hey Herc I'm with you. It's funny how performance wise the current 350z is no match for a stock 93-95 3rd gen Rx7 (or a 99-02 version for that matter) but yet somehow the 350z is suppose to miraculously out perform the Rx8. Lets see, the Rx8 has the fondation to be the SUPREME performer. The 350Z has all of these attributes: perfect 50/50 balance, light weight, high reving rotary with a nearly flat torque curve. "Oh damn I must be lossing my mind, those are the attributes of the Rx8" Ha ha ha. Any ways the only advantage the Z will have is acceleration(and we all know thats only a small segment when it comes to overall performance). Other than that the Z would be toast. As far as that statment about a magazine test goes, the Z guys better hope they dont compare the two at the track because, I would hate to see the 350Z tuck it's tall in between its legs and take it's *** to the house in humilitation!

Good Duck

When did the RX-8 become so holier-than-thou that it can’t be compare against certain cars? Which car you choose is wholly dependent on your priority and circumstances. And why wouldn’t people cross-shop against 350Z? Both are similarly price and both aspire to be sport car.

The 350Z and RX-8 are right on top of my list. I like the power of 350Z, but love the styling of RX-8. The 350Z’s high shoulder line and limited visibility left me feeling disconnected from the road. So for now, I choose the RX-8. But I will reserve my final judgment when I can test drive both back to back.

As for comparing both cars on a road circuit, it’s not simple as it seems. Unless the same driver drives both cars on the same track, it’s hard to take a number and equate it to performance. Even then, it’s just for bragging right nothing more. In the end, the driver skill level and experience will matter most.

Hercules

I agree, but the RX-8 is a 4 seater and not a 2, thus GENERALLY cross shopping wouldn't happen.

But either way you are correct, it's every bit (packaging, handling, power, feedback, etc) that make the car, not just one aspect.

That said, I think the RX-8 is a better car for the money. We'll see in time though.

Renesis08

When that time comes... still seems so far away . I want my 8 :D .

evel333

The discussion of where the 8 will rank in the general pecking order of cars will continue long after it is finally released. What ever the final version turns out to be, I'm keeping my expectations low, just in case, so I'm not disappointed. I want to enjoy the car as total package, even if she'll be a jack of all trades and master of none. If I want to make her faster, I'll make her faster--surely, the big aftermarket companies in Japan are readying, if not finalizing, designs for upgrades to the 8.

This is a stretched comparison: but while the 8 may not pack the high power numbers as some others, having a vehicle with a lack of power has never stopped people from getting say--a Civic--and trying to make IT go fast, although at $30K+ I do understand the arguement why the 8 should get just a little bit more zoom. (^_^)

StephenF

I also don't think this view is correct. Sure the RX-8 is a 4 seater, but I seriously doubt that anyone who needs to haul around 3 other people everyday will find the RX-8 adequate. It has less room than a BMW 3-series and from my experience that's a tight fit. (Maybe I'm just too tall )

I'm maried and have no kids and, like many other somewhat settled people out there, already have a "practical" car. (We have a Protege5 that's stuffed to its gills about every two weeks.) What we want now is a small sporty car. We've considered a Miata, FD RX-7, 350Z, S2000, and of course the RX-8. I prefer coupes, don't like to portliness of the 350Z or the reliability issues of the FD. That leaves the RX-8 (even without considering my unhealthy obsession with this car )

I think more people are going to cross-shop than Mazda wants to acknowledge.

Hercules

I would like to say that this much, that the RX-8 is only smaller than the 330Ci ON PAPER. Getting into the car you'll find a big difference, because the rear passengers put their feet underneath the front seats, and the front seats are elevated for that purpose.

I think it will take time, but read the articles that came out today from the UK and you'll know what I have already suspected for some time... the RX-8 will be worth every dime, and be thrilling to drive for any adventure or trip you want to take

revhappy

I hope the seat isn't too elevated...I hate high driving positions..my father's focus feels like a truck cause you sit so high!

boowana

One thing to keep in mind is that none of us, including folks at MNAO have actually seen a true, final actual regular production based RX-8.
Words like "provisional" are used for this reason. Also, with a continuing campaign to reduce weight, but without compromise, the weight will not be going up from3011 and "might" be alittle less.
Same with HP although I think were seeing what could be close to final in this department.

Schneegz

I think the RX-8 is, to its detriment, being compared to the wrong cars. Comparing the RX-8 to the Z doesn't make sense. The Z is a 2-seat sports car. The 8 is a 4-seat, 4-door (sort of) sports coupe. The Nissan the 8 really SHOULD be compared to is the Infinity G35. The G35 is basically a stretched Z with back seats added. In that case, the 8 compares very favorably.

Do yourselves and the RX-8 a favor and compare it to the right cars. If you want a REAL sports car, something to take on the Z and maybe even a Vette or two, wait for the RX-7. If, on the other hand, you're in the market for a G35 or an RSX, you would do well to give the RX-8 a spin.

StephenF

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. The RX-8 is on the line (at least to me) between a sports car and a sports coupe. If you're in the market for a sports coupe, you compare it to the RSX, G35 Coupe, etc. If, however, you are in the market for a sports car (like me), it gets compared to other sports cars like the 350Z, S2000, etc.

Fortunately, I think the RX-8 will hold up well in either of these categories so I say: Compare away!

Jerome81

As far as the targeted weight, hp, etc, there are reasons Mazda, and other manufacturer's do this. To cover their butts.

In just the last couple years there have been problems from various manufacturers. Nissan has been the biggest culprit. When the new Q45 came out, I believe they advertised 345hp. After the car was released, it was tested several times against the Lexus LS430, a heavier car, with less aggressive gearing and 290hp, if I'm not mistaken. The Lexus was faster accelerating every time, by a rather large margin. In addition, most mags get times faster than manufacturer's claims, but not one single test was able to best the 5.9S 0-60 claim Infiniti was giving. What it came down to, the Infiniti was not making the claimed hp.

Then the SE-R came out. Was supposed to have 180hp, was lowered to 175 because Nissan didn't want the same problems they had with the Q. Most people say this car still isn't putting out 175 hp.

Ford. A few years back claimed a stated hp on their SVT Cobras. Turns out every one was made with ~20 fewer horsepower than claimed. Ford fixed every one to make claimed power, discontinued the Cobra for a year to fix it, and lost face.

Mazda. The 2001 redesign of the Miata added VVT to the 1.8L engine. Mazda did their tests on engines without CA emissions on it. 155hp is what came out. But at the last minute Mazda decided that every car they sell in the US will be 50 state legal, so they added the required CA emissions, which dropped the hp down to 142hp. Thing is they never remembered to retest the engine until after they claimed 155hp. People knew what was up. A car with a supposed extra 15hp and better top end because of VVT was running the EXACT same times as the 140hp car had. Mazda admitted the problem, offered to either buy back the cars for full refund price, or offer owners $500 plus some kind of extended warranty/service plan. Ouch.

So, now, they cover their butts. What they have listed there is probably what it will end up coming with, but just incase it is higher or lower, they add targeted just so these problems don't arise. For instance on the Mazda6, their target on the 2.3L I4 engine was 150hp, the car actually arrived with 160hp. Good, higher than expected. So who knows, maybe weight will be dropped and hp will up to 255. Ya never know.

Lastly, nothing like comparing how a car drives, accelerates, brakes, handles, feels, smells, etc when not a single person on this board (except maybe dan from rotarynews) has driven the RX-8, and even then it isn't final spec. I just wish all the Z bashing would end. I wish the RX-8 bashing would end. Everything right now is pure speculation, and it seems silly to argue over things that nobody has any experience with. Soon enough there'll be tests, then maybe we can start arguing about speed, handling etc. As soon as we drive them, then maybe we can argue about how a car "feels". But I don't think we should go saying a 8 can or can't do this, or that a Z is a pig who handles like a tank. We don't know and it's not true. The Z is a darn fine automobile, and better than most any car out there.

fritts

Boowana,
What do you mean by saying that no one at MNAO has seen the production version of the 8? I would think that by now the production version of the 8 would be out do to EPA, Crash Testing, and all the other regulations the 8 would have to go through in order to be approved for the American market. Especially since manufacturing is supposed to begin in April right.

Herc.
I think the 8 even though it has 4 doors is very cramped to be a true 4 seater. I was not very comfortable in the back seat. One of the main problems being that the center counsol takes up a considerable amount of room in the back so even though the space in the rear may look like its as room as the 330 I'm sure its not. Your movement is definetly restricted. Which would be great for kids though you could keep them separated and from kicking and hitting each other very well. HEHE.

Hercules

To each his own fritts.. I haven't sat in the car yet so I don't know.. but if you've sat in the back of a 330Ci (COUPE!!), then the room there is VERY stuffy. I think the RX-8 will be better than that, if not similar.

nk_Rx8

I don't know why people don't think the RX8 is being cross shopped with cars like the Z? I know I am. And I know 2 other friends that are. We are all considering the RX8, Z, G35 coupe and S2000. None of us are locked into only a 2 seater or coupe/convertible. And we are kinda seeing the RX8 as similar to a 2+2 coupe anyway. We're just seeing what we end up thinking is the best car in the price range for us and what will 'grab' us during the test drives/appearance. So far we are each favoring different cars, but still wouldn't mind owning any of them.

fritts

I would agree with you on that. I too was cross shopping untill I found out how much the 350Z weighed and how small and cramped the S2000 was.

T-von

Someone made a comment about the Rx8 going into production in April! If thats the case, whats Mazda's process for these next 2 months? I mean they already have numerous Rx8 's roaming around California. Whats the holdup?

xkpbreaker

does anyone have any comments on the 04' wrx sti?

I'm deciding between dat and the 8....

0-60 in 4.7 sec and 1/4 mile in 13.4..

I'd say the STI is best bang for buck

Fëakhelek

Based on specs I can see why some people would compare the wrx with the RX-8 but to me they are very different. I see the wrx as a rally car and the RX-8 as a sports (or sporty) car. I personally am just not into the feel of a rally car so the wrx is not an option.

Good Duck

I also had considered the STi. The 2.5L turbo will certainly be a beast. It will probably be the fastest straight-line car for the money. I believe though, the RX-8 will out handle it.

The major reason why I crossed the STi off my list was its look. I never got over the bug-eyes WRX; the rear end was even worse. For '04, they just changed the headlight. Not a big improvement. In my eyes, the RX-8 beat the STi in look and styling in spades. To me, the RX-8 is the more rounded package. It's a great blends of performance, utility, and styling. Plus, rotary rules!

But if you love pig that fly, then the STi got your number.