KKMmaniac

You've probably found it already, but Mazda has listed (unconfirmed!) curb weights, and EPA combined mileage.

http://www2.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/rx8/rx8_main_flash.jsp

To be confirmed by June? Hmmmmm...

jeremy

at that weight, it will have its *** handed to it by the z. i was hoping mazda could have mounted a challenge. maybe it will bring out a mazdaspeed version to trounce the z like the sti is doing to the evo.

evel333

"Unconfirmed"?? Add that to the growing list of words, including "targeted" and "provisional", that Mazda has been using as a disclaimer for many of their stats. Why? It's like their engineers are feverishly working on increasing output and reducing weight by production/delivery deadline. Very strange. It reminds me of the "Lisa's Wedding" episode of The Simpsons:

Smithers: Oh Mr. Burns, we'll thaw you out the second they discover the cure for...seventeen stab wounds in the back. How're we doing boys?
Professor: Well, we're up to fifteen!
Group: Yea!!

(^_^)

DonG35Miata

6-speed is a projected 3,011 lbs, for those who do not want to visit the website and look for the weight figure.

These numbers aren't written in stone. Weight could go up and hp down before the car is finalized. What if it comes out at 3,050 lbs and hp is only 240? It could happen... look at the overstated Miata HP flap of a few years ago.

Evel333, you said it perfectly about these disclaimers. I'm tired of the weasel words, and my skepticism about the RX-8 will not go away. I really want to love this car. But I keep getting the idea that in everyday driving, it isn't going to be or feel any faster than a 220 hp Mazda 6, but with a lot more compromises.

Fëakhelek

If the weight goes up any more we're gonna end up with a Lincoln.

fritts

I'm hoping that the reason for the temporary wording is that they don't want the RX-8 and Mazda 6 cars to be so similar. I'm also hoping that the weight is not for the base version but the fat grand tourer.

zoom44

actually feb. issue of car and driver puts the 6 cyl. mazda6 at 6.67 sec. 0-60. so the 8 will still be faster and better handling.

revhappy

Car and Driver also got a 6.1 time for an rsx-s.

zoom44

also i shhould mention, thogh of topic, they compared the 6cyl mazda6 with the 6cyl. jetta and altima. they picked the 6 over the other two and called the interior something like "a step" above the others.

ToRX-8orToZ

Hate to say I told you guys, but, I told you guys.

The Z is gonna stomp this car performance wise. With that said, I'm getting an 8. Why? Because this will be my daily driver, and the 8 will be fun to drive while at the same time achieving a level of practicality that no sports car currently on the market for under 30K can achieve.

For those of you fixated on 1/4 mile times, I say wait for the rx-7, or buy a Z.

Hercules

Z will beat the RX-8 in a straight line, and I believe it will beat it with a good edge.

HOWEVER, when it comes to handling and agility I think the RX-8 will romp the Z. Lighter weight, and in the right places (centered in this car, as much as it can be), do wonders for handling instead of the bulky imbalanced Z.

Performance is what you want it to be a measure of.. if it's pure power/speed then the Z might fit your bill, but for me it's handling with an ADEQUATE AMOUNT of power, and the RX-8 does just that.

The handling on the RX-8 will be one of the raasons I'm buying it, but mostly for price/practicality. The Z will fail in handling (in my opinion) to the RX-8, loses on price and practicality as well.. so the 8 is an easy choice.

Don't make blanket statements like 'performance' because it doesn't mean straight line times to everybody.

ToRX-8orToZ

What are you talking about? Good and bad handling is a subjective concept. What isnt a subjective concept is how fast a car does a lap around a track, and THAT is what I mean by performance. You guys just won't let go, will you. The Z is gonna trounce the 8 around the vast majority of tracks... thats what I call better performance.

If you're looking for a Z beater, this is not the car for you.

nk_Rx8

One thing to keep in mind when one is making blanket statements about how the RX8 will stomp the Z in handling is that although the RX8 will probably handle better, the Z is not going to handle like crap. It wasn't built just for people who wanted power. It will handle better than probably >90% of the cars on the road also and is good enough that most people who drive it will never hit it's limits. But they will probably more easily find a time to test the acceleration on the highway or just to pass someone somewhere. That said, I can't own a Z. I don't like the looks of it and it's too heavy for me.

One can also say then that the RX7 is no good either because the RX8 is supposedly better handling although less power. Personally, I would take a 7 over the 8 (if it was reliable).

lefuton

I swear it's like talking to a wall. Please explain to me how good and bad handling is a subjective concept. Is that like saying good and bad acceleration is a subjective concept?

I tell ya what, you seem to be one of the only people focused on this Z beater philosophy and you're right, this probably isn't the car for you. I doubt most of the people (reasonable ones anyhow) aren't aiming for a 4 door 4 seater 249 provisional hp car to humiliate a 287hp torquey 350z around every bend and straightaway.

If laptimes are all that matter to you, you're probably better off with something like a corvette, or heck, buy a 97 supra and spend the money you save on a turbo and some new shocks. Almost guaranteed to torch any 350z you come up to.

nk_Rx8

I agree with you. I think some are over reacting to criticism of the car. I think partly it's because Mazda is marketing the car as a 'sports car' that can seat 4 people. The car seems more like competition for a sports sedan/coupe market that handles like a sports car, not the other way around. I think that this is the reason some of us are a little disappointed right now. We expected a sports car with sports car performance and it realistically isn't up to our expectations taht we formed from hearing Mazda's marketing spiel and from the 3rd gen RX7 performance. I really thought that this car would come out and be at least equal to it in everyway. It doesn't make it a bad car for what it really is, but it isn't what everyone is looking for. Just like some people want a G35 coupe, but some people think it's too cushy, 'not a true sports car' and have to have a Z. I am thinking that the RX8 is more like the G35 than the Z in terms of 'type' of car, and hopefully a 'real' sportscar will come out sometime.
I still want to see in it real life though. Who knows, maybe it will win me over. A friend of mine who I never thought in a million years would own a Honda, bought an S2000 after driving a friend's around the track. So anything is possible. And if I don't think it's everything that I want, then maybe it can be the wife's car! I wouldn't mind an RX8 and a future RX7 in the garage.

ToRX-8orToZ

First up Iefuton, read through a thread before throwing in your 2 cents.

I love the 8. I will buy an 8. What I dislike are dilusional concepts over what this car will be, performance wise. Why? Because its only setting up the car for a disapointing release.

Handling is indeed a relative concept. Why? Because not everyone has the same skills, nor does everyone drive in a similar style. Why do drifters prefer rear wheel drive vehicles to all wheel drive cars? Duh. Believe it or not, some people who hang around tracks prefer some SLIGHT understeer.

When I say performance, I mean one thing.... the general ability of a car to get around a track quickly. The Z is going to romp the 8 at just about every track in the country. In my mind, that means the car is better "performance wise". Don't believe me? That's ok, we can just wait for Car&Driver to run some comparison lap times (I'm sure they will compare the 8, Z, and S2k before the year is up).

Does this mean the 8 is a poor performance car? No. But we should all realize that this is a "compromise" sort of design; don't build it up to be something it isnt so you can tear it down when it doesnt meet your expectations.

lefuton

guess we stand in agreement then, regarding:

What I dislike are dilusional concepts over what this car will be, performance wise. Why? Because its only setting up the car for a disapointing release.

sorry bout the edit, hit submit accidentally =p

psukhu

I think Mazda will mount a challenge and win... with the next RX-7.


The RX-8 is not in the same class as the Z, from a marketing point of view. It is a four seater. What car has has 4 seats, 4 doors, manual tranny and has options like DSC and NAV? (eg. IS300, G35 Coupe)

race1

I think we will be surprised witht the weight numbers. Charlie Hughes, stood on his PULPIT @ SEVENSTOCK and decreed a weight of 2900lbs. to which the crowd fervently responded with an "AMEN"- he was very, i mean very confident in his numbers- we could be surprised.

He decreed on that faithfull day a price of 26,000 dollars- a max of 33,000- to which mazda delivered a price of 25,180- AGAIN the people rejoiced!

Remember project "gram force" to which the engineers took an entire car a part and saved grams off of every part-to save a toale of 100's of pounds- they are probably in the midst of this right now.

Mazda has always delivered exceptionally lighter cars to offset or entirely negate the differences and HP advantages that other manufacturers had.

LETS all WAIT for the final testing numbers to come in. THE comparison btwn, the z and the 8 will happen with SEVERAL magazines and I suspect the 8 will come out RIGHTOUS!

zoom44

there's another reason i like this car.

Hercules

I have to laugh at the comment that the Z will romp the 8 on the track... it's just sad you believe that.

Let's start small first.. autocross. There are Mazda Miatas with 140 horsepower that will beat people in much more powerful cars. Granted there's a reason for this.. the autocrossing generally doesn't pass fourth gear and the more nimble the car the better in that regard. Miata is lightweight, very good handling stock, that will romp most cars out there, just because of its characteristics.

But you want a regular track... let's say Laguna Seca shall we?

Regular tracks make use of high gears and high RPMs. Agility is key but so is power, especially in the upper gears. Now I don't know how you say that the Z will be 'wooping' on the RX-8 when the Z's torque plummets after 4800 (its max). By 6000RPMs the RX-8 is ahead of the Z's torque.

This would make for an interesting matchup on a track, and in my mind a very close race. I don't think the Z is going to woop the RX-8 but if it wins, it won't be by much. And personally I'm okay with that.

We need to really stop comparing the 350Z and the RX-8. People that are looking into the RX-8 are not going to cross shop (for the most part) the 350Z, unless they are just rich and want what looks good and have no intention of ever going near a track.

G35, 330, IS300, Audi A4... these are the cars the RX-8 will probably compete against. Not the 350Z. We just need to get over that.

chenpin

I dont think that is completely true. In fact, many people I know have looked at these two cars (and others) before deciding. Granted, you can say that the two cars just too different to be compared and thus are in different markets, BUT keep in mind this car is called the RX-8. RX to many people means performance as does the Z Nissan uses. Personally I think its stupid to compare the two cars, but the reality is, imo, that comparisons will be done. (maybe that is what you meant by "for the most part"?)

Also, what do you mean by "they are just rich"? The ability to get a Z or 8 does not mean you are rich. Ironically these cars are about performance on buget (i.e. original Z, rx-7 vs. more expensive cars). The fact that the stock FD could beat or match other cars and still be less expensive is impressive. To me, that is a big part of the RX series' appeal (that and its rotary).

revhappy

If you are going to talk the talk.you have to walk the walk...mazda is marketing this as a "sports car..that happens to sit 4 people"..thus it is completely fair to compare it with similarly priced sports cars.

If you insist on comparing it to sports sedans...then you have to consider the rally cars...evo...sti..and WRX.....regardingthe first two... there is no comparison from an objective performance standpoint....the latter..I think the RX8 should win (it better being some ~ $5K higher in price).

BTW..I have noticed Mazda marketing their sporty family sedan (Mazda 6)..as a sports sedan.....could the same thing be happenning with the RX8?

If this thing comes in over 3,000 lbs., it will really take away from the inherent advantages of a rotary. As has been stated repeatedly, a high-reving. moderate - peak torque engine of the RX8 is best suited for lightweight sports cars. At 3,000+ lb..its going to not be far off from the 3,085 lb. turbo AWD WRX (which is a mass produced car). Again, just how much weight was put on from adding suicide doors and the related bracing? Hell, most sports sedans offer 2 door versions! For a sports car, I see little sense in this, especially since the front passengers still have to get out of the car to let the rear pasengers out.

I've waited 2 years for this car (putting off a new car purchase and driving my old 93 escort) with the impression of sports car performance, and anything less would be a huge dissappointment. I can accept it not being the fastest car in this group, but it should be competitive in terms of acceleration and dominant in handling. So far, the dominant handling has not been demonstrated. Rather, it is based on Mazda's great reputation. However, past history has also shown compromise cars..tend to give up performance (including handling).

At this point I'm looking at a base 6 speed...and hoping it will be significantly lighter than the other models with the "goodies." Again, I hope I'm completely wrong so I can have the car I've been waiting for!

ToRX-8orToZ

Here is an interesting article for you guys.

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_print.mv...582&1351529848

Hercules

We've all read it. I don't see what you want to point out.