New RX-8 Preview Article!
11-07-2002, 11:29 AM
#51
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Originally posted by Jerome81
This car is a VERY preproduction model, remember. They almost certainly do not have the final specs dialed in when it comes to suspension tuning, engine tuning, or things such as steering and gear shifting. Even when they were doing Mazda6 initial tests, that was less than a month before a worldwide debut, and even then they were all driving preproduction models. Keep that in mind before you complain about body roll, engine output, etc.
This car is a VERY preproduction model, remember. They almost certainly do not have the final specs dialed in when it comes to suspension tuning, engine tuning, or things such as steering and gear shifting. Even when they were doing Mazda6 initial tests, that was less than a month before a worldwide debut, and even then they were all driving preproduction models. Keep that in mind before you complain about body roll, engine output, etc.
It is possible that the vehicle driven in the aritcle is an older pre-production unit, but automakers typically don't like to preview substandard engineering mules to the media, and run the risk of an unfavorable assessment based on an incorrect car being published.
We don't even know when Job 1 for the RX-8 is. There's been a ton of speculation.....December? April? June? Who knows? If the car doesn't going into production until next Summer (God forbid!), then it is possible that some last-minute changes might be in the works. Otherwise.....I doubt it.
11-07-2002, 11:30 AM
#52
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Originally posted by vaughnc
Lower HP Specs: - Here's the engine dyno proving their #s are wrong:
Lower HP Specs: - Here's the engine dyno proving their #s are wrong:
Sorry to advise you but that isn't a dyno graph. One of the forum members estimated the numbers based on the torque curve that mazda marketing put out.
Originally posted by macabre
[B]Depends on your definition of a problem. Using those magazine "real world" quotes, even if they doubled it you'd still be looking at pretty poor numbers when compared to its competitors.
Not that this should be news to anyone...
[B]Depends on your definition of a problem. Using those magazine "real world" quotes, even if they doubled it you'd still be looking at pretty poor numbers when compared to its competitors.
Not that this should be news to anyone...
One competitor is the Infinity g35 which has EPA ratings of 19/26. (http://www.theweekenddrive.com/revie.../infiniti.html)
I would think that worst case, the rx-8 will at least match those numbers. (an increase of 2mpg city/1mpg highway over the 1989 na rx-7)
Would you consider the same EPA rating as the G35 a pretty poor comparison to the G35? :| Is this thread going to turn into another big discussion about the Rx-8s competitors now?
Now admit that you work for Nissan! :D
Brian
11-07-2002, 11:41 AM
#53
Re: A Message from Mount Olympus
Originally posted by tallguylehigh
After reading some of the posts, it seems to be that some of the faithful RX-8 fans on this site are starting to panic at the latest Auto Express article. Although they gave it their approval, some of their comments struck fear into the hearts of RX-8 fans. I was wondering if somehow this panic will reach the ears of the Mazda brass, possibly even warrenting a message from upon high about further development of the chassis, engine, etc, etc? Or do you think they plan on just riding it out? Just curious.
After reading some of the posts, it seems to be that some of the faithful RX-8 fans on this site are starting to panic at the latest Auto Express article. Although they gave it their approval, some of their comments struck fear into the hearts of RX-8 fans. I was wondering if somehow this panic will reach the ears of the Mazda brass, possibly even warrenting a message from upon high about further development of the chassis, engine, etc, etc? Or do you think they plan on just riding it out? Just curious.
Time will tell, I need to get behind the wheel!
11-07-2002, 12:05 PM
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My thoughts are that they were not being gentle on the car during the tests they were performing so why would the fuel economy be high. If I was really working the car I think that 20.3 miles is acceptable because most likely that would be lower than even city driving gas mileage. Not to mention that if you were beating on a car and got 20.3 I would expect at least 28 during highway driving.
Mazda said 20% better than the RX-7 so its not going to be all that great MPG anyway.
Mazda said 20% better than the RX-7 so its not going to be all that great MPG anyway.
11-07-2002, 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Buger
Now admit that you work for Nissan! :D
Now admit that you work for Nissan! :D
Really, fuel economy isn't too big a deal for me, if the car's performance justifies it. I was perfectly content filling the 20 gallon tank in my 944 Turbo ever 200-250 miles
. I'm just a little erked at this less then stellar review, but I'm trying to hold out and wait to see for myself.
11-07-2002, 06:42 PM
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I'm amazed that the RX-8 looks so similar to the showcars, and hasn't lost more content. This is a rarity.
Although everyone else is lamenting this article (Auto Express is the "Motor Trend of Europe," by the way), I'm psyched to see that the RX-8 has survived so well from prototype to production car.
Although everyone else is lamenting this article (Auto Express is the "Motor Trend of Europe," by the way), I'm psyched to see that the RX-8 has survived so well from prototype to production car.
11-07-2002, 08:01 PM
#60
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Originally posted by Quick_lude
Look at the second last pic.. the bottom front corner of the door.. Carpet grill.
Look at the second last pic.. the bottom front corner of the door.. Carpet grill.
11-07-2002, 08:44 PM
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22 000 pounds???????????????????????
thats well over 25 american
this bad news keeps adding up
-------i might have to sign up on the s2k forum if this crap continues
thats well over 25 american
this bad news keeps adding up
-------i might have to sign up on the s2k forum if this crap continues
11-07-2002, 08:53 PM
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European pricing has very little influence on US pricing. Converting the price from pounds to US dollars simply by using a currency conversion is not indicative of the US price. This is easily demonstrated by taking a look at the (non) relationship between US and Canadian prices.
11-07-2002, 08:56 PM
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i understand that but i mean the price difference is massive - 22 000 is pratically 40 000.
but if a comparison was to be made - do this
how much was a new rx7 in the uk and one in canada or the states???
we can use that to compare
but if a comparison was to be made - do this
how much was a new rx7 in the uk and one in canada or the states???
we can use that to compare
11-07-2002, 09:13 PM
#64
Originally posted by Immi
i understand that but i mean the price difference is massive - 22 000 is pratically 40 000.
but if a comparison was to be made - do this
how much was a new rx7 in the uk and one in canada or the states???
we can use that to compare
i understand that but i mean the price difference is massive - 22 000 is pratically 40 000.
but if a comparison was to be made - do this
how much was a new rx7 in the uk and one in canada or the states???
we can use that to compare
It's the cost of living that's higher, so Mazda UK can charge more for the RX-8 there, than in the US. Besides the pricing is already out by the VP of Mazda North America, 26k-31k loaded. Take nav off and you're looking at 30k.
11-07-2002, 09:44 PM
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Not really. The per capita purchasing power parity in the UK is $24,700 (converted to USD). In the US it's $36,600. I.e., people have more money to spend on things in the US than in the UK. This is according to the 2002 CIA world factbook. Further, according the the UK parliament stationary office the average household income in the UK is $28626 (USD). In the US, according to the US department of the census, the median household income is $42,228. Cost of living is higher in say, London, but that's like looking at San Jose, CA as the entire United States. The US is a very wealthy country.
The reason cars are more expensive in the UK is because of the slew of taxes and tarrifs, not because UK residents are all rich gluttons with money to spare.
The money that a car company takes home over there is not all that different.
The reason cars are more expensive in the UK is because of the slew of taxes and tarrifs, not because UK residents are all rich gluttons with money to spare.
The money that a car company takes home over there is not all that different.
11-07-2002, 09:51 PM
#66
Originally posted by Macabre
Not really. The per capita purchasing power parity in the UK is $24,700 (converted to USD). In the US it's $36,600. I.e., people have more money to spend on things in the US than in the UK. This is according to the 2002 CIA world factbook. Further, according the the UK parliament stationary office the average household income in the UK is $28626 (USD). In the US, according to the US department of the census, the median household income is $42,228. Cost of living is higher in say, London, but that's like looking at San Jose, CA as the entire United States. The US is a very wealthy country.
The reason cars are more expensive in the UK is because of the slew of taxes and tarrifs, not because UK residents are all rich gluttons with money to spare. The money that a car company takes home over there is not all that different.
Not really. The per capita purchasing power parity in the UK is $24,700 (converted to USD). In the US it's $36,600. I.e., people have more money to spend on things in the US than in the UK. This is according to the 2002 CIA world factbook. Further, according the the UK parliament stationary office the average household income in the UK is $28626 (USD). In the US, according to the US department of the census, the median household income is $42,228. Cost of living is higher in say, London, but that's like looking at San Jose, CA as the entire United States. The US is a very wealthy country.
The reason cars are more expensive in the UK is because of the slew of taxes and tarrifs, not because UK residents are all rich gluttons with money to spare.
The money that a car company takes home over there is not all that different.
Besides if you think about it, the Ford Puma (Mazda MX-3 in the states) runs like 14k UK Pounds... convert and it's over 20k, but over there it's a cheap car
11-07-2002, 09:58 PM
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Yup. They get all the great cars over there, but no meer mortal can afford to buy them! One plus over there is it's still quite easy to buy gray market cars which can save thousands and get the little extras they only sell in certain markets. Very common to do that with the special japanese Subaru Imprezas and Mitsu Evos.
11-07-2002, 10:21 PM
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In Germany, I know that new cars can be financed for as long as 10 years, so many of those great cars become more affordable. I'll second the motion on the availability of Europe's awesome cars that don't make it to the U.S. I think I mentioned this before, but I used to love seeing the Mazda 323F cruising around. Much better than the 323's or early Protege's that were the counterpart of the same era.
11-07-2002, 10:35 PM
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I'm not worried at all. Mazda has always managed to deliver, and I think the RX-8 will be every bit as good, or better than, its competition. Besides, if the car really does have a lot of body roll a few suspension modifications solve the problem. In addition, the Mazda6 is their Nissan Maxima cushy ride sedan. The 8 is a step up, it is their car to show the public what they're made of. As far as price, only time, and Mazda, will tell.
11-07-2002, 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by Macabre
Not really. The per capita purchasing power parity in the UK is $24,700 (converted to USD). In the US it's $36,600. I.e., people have more money to spend on things in the US than in the UK. This is according to the 2002 CIA world factbook. Further, according the the UK parliament stationary office the average household income in the UK is $28626 (USD). In the US, according to the US department of the census, the median household income is $42,228. Cost of living is higher in say, London, but that's like looking at San Jose, CA as the entire United States. The US is a very wealthy country.
Not really. The per capita purchasing power parity in the UK is $24,700 (converted to USD). In the US it's $36,600. I.e., people have more money to spend on things in the US than in the UK. This is according to the 2002 CIA world factbook. Further, according the the UK parliament stationary office the average household income in the UK is $28626 (USD). In the US, according to the US department of the census, the median household income is $42,228. Cost of living is higher in say, London, but that's like looking at San Jose, CA as the entire United States. The US is a very wealthy country.
The US has the cheapest priced cars in the world and Singapore has the most expensive. There is probably a 30% price difference between an identical Golf GTi or Jetta/Bora in the UK and USA, and people in the USA earn much more as well. There is probably a 400% price difference between an identical Corolla in the USA and Singapore. But Singapore is tiny and has easily the best/cheapest public transport in the world so nobody needs cars (unless you enjoy driving) so (wealthy) people bid for the right to own them and then pay a massive import tax.
11-07-2002, 11:48 PM
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Couple other things....
1. Europe really is "halfway around the world" from Japan
2. People in Europe don't drive as much as us gas guzzlers in the US. Less driving=less automobile demand. Less demand=higher price.
1. Europe really is "halfway around the world" from Japan
2. People in Europe don't drive as much as us gas guzzlers in the US. Less driving=less automobile demand. Less demand=higher price.
11-08-2002, 12:23 AM
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Originally posted by Aesculapius
Couple other things....
1. Europe really is "halfway around the world" from Japan
2. People in Europe don't drive as much as us gas guzzlers in the US. Less driving=less automobile demand. Less demand=higher price.
Couple other things....
1. Europe really is "halfway around the world" from Japan
2. People in Europe don't drive as much as us gas guzzlers in the US. Less driving=less automobile demand. Less demand=higher price.
2. oh they drive, they just don't have gas guzzlers like we do
price difference is probably due to tariffs and where the car is actually assembled - canada/usa probably have more foreign japanese factories than europe does as a whole - though i see that changing in the near future
Last edited by Immi; 11-08-2002 at 12:35 AM.
11-08-2002, 07:07 AM
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Originally posted by ZoomZoom
I do not think that I have ever disagreed with you in the past… BUT, I think that you must have to squint your eyes or do something to see a “carpet grill” or anything else that resembles a speaker in the “bottom front corner of the door”. I can see something there but it has to be a leap of faith to see what you saying is there.
I do not think that I have ever disagreed with you in the past… BUT, I think that you must have to squint your eyes or do something to see a “carpet grill” or anything else that resembles a speaker in the “bottom front corner of the door”. I can see something there but it has to be a leap of faith to see what you saying is there.
11-08-2002, 09:30 AM
#74
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Lamenting
1) I really miss the mirrors with the turn signals... although the signals on the front quarter panel make up for it a little. I just want 6 turn signals (I want a horn here, here and here, you can never find a horn when you are mad)
2) What is this about americans not liking luscious leather? I understand if they are making an option I have to pay for, but I don't want to settle for a cheap interior.
3) I thought the 6 was going to have nav for sure, which would make it more likely in the rx8. I just built a 6, and sure enough it was nowhere to be found. With the integrated console in the 8 they are going to make it very difficult to do this aftermarket.
4) The steering wheel is definitely not as attractive, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
I guess all things considered though, I agree with grimace in that I am amazed at what they did keep.
1) I really miss the mirrors with the turn signals... although the signals on the front quarter panel make up for it a little. I just want 6 turn signals (I want a horn here, here and here, you can never find a horn when you are mad)
2) What is this about americans not liking luscious leather? I understand if they are making an option I have to pay for, but I don't want to settle for a cheap interior.
3) I thought the 6 was going to have nav for sure, which would make it more likely in the rx8. I just built a 6, and sure enough it was nowhere to be found. With the integrated console in the 8 they are going to make it very difficult to do this aftermarket.
4) The steering wheel is definitely not as attractive, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
I guess all things considered though, I agree with grimace in that I am amazed at what they did keep.
11-08-2002, 09:31 AM
#75
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zoom44
plastic insert in the wheel vent? are you sure? looks to me like what they have on the mr2 spider, which looks rediculous. at least it isn't that obtrusive on the 8.
plastic insert in the wheel vent? are you sure? looks to me like what they have on the mr2 spider, which looks rediculous. at least it isn't that obtrusive on the 8.