New owner - Hurricane sandy style
11-18-2012, 11:09 PM
#26
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Jim writes "You will be that guy screaming and yelling Rotaries are a POS and you should get more than 60K miles out of an engine.
Read your owners manual at the very least if you are not going to read anything on here. "
I did as you suggested, several times, but have yet to find anything that says I need to "pre-mix" or "redline" once a day or at all.
I also no others, including a 65 year old secretary in my office building with a 2007 RX that is hitting 81K without any problems not doing what you advise. I would appreciate if you could point out where in the manual it says to pre-mix or redline?
The problem with this forum is that it is mostly enthusiasts who drive their cars hard or race. There are many others for whom the RX8 is simply just another car they bought because they like its looks and "cool" factor and they have had no problems with it, especially the 2009 or later ones.
Read your owners manual at the very least if you are not going to read anything on here. "
I did as you suggested, several times, but have yet to find anything that says I need to "pre-mix" or "redline" once a day or at all.
I also no others, including a 65 year old secretary in my office building with a 2007 RX that is hitting 81K without any problems not doing what you advise. I would appreciate if you could point out where in the manual it says to pre-mix or redline?
The problem with this forum is that it is mostly enthusiasts who drive their cars hard or race. There are many others for whom the RX8 is simply just another car they bought because they like its looks and "cool" factor and they have had no problems with it, especially the 2009 or later ones.
bet your using 5w-20 mineral oil also.................
11-19-2012, 05:50 AM
#27
No I am using 5w-30 in the colder months and 5w-40 in the warmer months. I would prefer to use 20w-50 but that is a sticking point with the dealership so we are both compromising. Since I have a 5 year 60K mile warranty on the car, I am trying to be on the same page as they are as much as possible. All the points in this thread have been discussed and an agreement has been reached. Thankfully, the lead tech is a Rotorhead like me so there is not too much arguing going on.
Another thing I learned from my RX7 is that using synthetic oil is a waste of money. On my RX7 I only run 20w-50 and change it every 1500-2000 miles. On the 8 I am changing every 3000 miles and, as mentioned using 5s-30 or 5w-40.
11-19-2012, 07:49 AM
#28
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Ken
11-19-2012, 02:19 PM
#29
He never mentioned the problem to me otherwise I would have schooled him on what to do to make the car happier.
I will scan my owners manual for you.
Question, if Mazda realized later on that this was a problem with the Renesis, (actually is a problem for all rotary engines) and they release new info for the series 2 cars and even go as far as put LED's in the tach to remind you to let it warm up, would you want to take this info and use it?
Or ignore it because it was not in YOUR owners manual.
11-19-2012, 06:41 PM
#30
Registered
[jackass]
Ignore it, because it's on Mazda's head to take care of it.
[/jackass]
The info is out there, and it was in both the QT book and the DVD. I don't think the dealer told me. But how many people buy this unique a car without running into the flooding info one way or another? Not a big deal to be aware and not push one's luck.
Although I did meet someone who had an RX-7 when in college, and had a nightmare of a time with flooding. Even once aware of the issue, he'd still start it for short runs when shuffling cars in the driveway.
Ken
Ignore it, because it's on Mazda's head to take care of it.
[/jackass]
The info is out there, and it was in both the QT book and the DVD. I don't think the dealer told me. But how many people buy this unique a car without running into the flooding info one way or another? Not a big deal to be aware and not push one's luck.
Although I did meet someone who had an RX-7 when in college, and had a nightmare of a time with flooding. Even once aware of the issue, he'd still start it for short runs when shuffling cars in the driveway.
Ken
11-19-2012, 06:55 PM
#31
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It's exactly the ECU injecting more fuel than the engine can handle if it's shut down before it gets burned. When you start cold, the ECU injects a rich mixture. The equivalent of what a choke does with a carburetor. Needs the rich mixture when cold, but it's a transient thing. As long as the engine keeps running til it warms up all is fine.
Shut it down, and the excess fuel is left to condense. Spark plugs in the rotary are at the bottom, where they get soaked and their ability to spark is impaired. And the fuel can wash off the oil that helps hold compression, etc.
I don't think flooding is guaranteed as some believe. Just one of those odds things. Good ignition and a fast starter enhance the odds of a flooded engine starting without drama the next time. But they can't do anything to prevent excess fuel from a premature cold shut down.
Ken
Shut it down, and the excess fuel is left to condense. Spark plugs in the rotary are at the bottom, where they get soaked and their ability to spark is impaired. And the fuel can wash off the oil that helps hold compression, etc.
I don't think flooding is guaranteed as some believe. Just one of those odds things. Good ignition and a fast starter enhance the odds of a flooded engine starting without drama the next time. But they can't do anything to prevent excess fuel from a premature cold shut down.
Ken
My good friend had an '04 (big part of the reason I have an '09 was because he let me drive his at an AX in anger) and he had his towed to the dealership 3 times with a flooded engine due to moving it and shutting it off cold.
He never mentioned the problem to me otherwise I would have schooled him on what to do to make the car happier.
I will scan my owners manual for you.
Question, if Mazda realized later on that this was a problem with the Renesis, (actually is a problem for all rotary engines) and they release new info for the series 2 cars and even go as far as put LED's in the tach to remind you to let it warm up, would you want to take this info and use it?
Or ignore it because it was not in YOUR owners manual.
He never mentioned the problem to me otherwise I would have schooled him on what to do to make the car happier.
I will scan my owners manual for you.
Question, if Mazda realized later on that this was a problem with the Renesis, (actually is a problem for all rotary engines) and they release new info for the series 2 cars and even go as far as put LED's in the tach to remind you to let it warm up, would you want to take this info and use it?
Or ignore it because it was not in YOUR owners manual.
You have generally good advice for people, but you are mis-construing parts in the wrong direction.
A) Your friend with the RX-8 clearly needed to get his ignition healthy and/or MSP-16 (Which adjusted the fuel injection when cold to reduce excess fuel on cold shut-off to more manageable levels)
B) The LEDs on the tach are not there specifically for flooding. The LEDs are there with the tach as part of the 3 level rev limit, vs the series 1's 2 level rev limit. A rev limit will never make an impact on shutting off cold. It's there to help try and save the engine if people start trying to drive hard when cold.
Yes, Mazda recommends (in various methods and sources), the rotary community recommends, and nearly every piston engine enthusiast community ... all recommend not shutting an engine off cold. It's just much better for an engine to let it come up to temp first all around. I don't even turn off my MSM's engine cold, even though I don't have a flooding risk there.
The flooding risk is as stated above. If everything is healthy, there is no flooding risk shutting off cold. It's still not a good idea due to oil pressures and temps. But if you have to, you only have the flooding risk if stuff is weakening or dying.
11-19-2012, 07:17 PM
#32
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The major upgrade to the engine for the Series 2 RX-8 was an improved oil injection system. I think you're at very little risk if you don't run pre-mix in a S2.
RIWWP, the LEDs may not be there specifically for flooding (as you say, they indicate a reduced rev limit for a cold engine), but the manual does say not to turn the car off unless the first light is off. Elsewhere it says not to turn the car off until the temperature gauge needle is in the middle. I know that the dealer moved mine several times and shut it off cold on the day I picked it up, but I also know that on that day, a current RX-8 owner who was at the dealership told my wife not to shut the car off cold, because he had just learned the hard way that the RX-8 was susceptible to flooding. It may not be likely to happen, but given that it's significantly more common than any other car, what's the harm in taking a simple precaution? There are other benefits, too -- not having moisture with dissolved acids in the exhaust system or combustion chamber, for instance.
RIWWP, the LEDs may not be there specifically for flooding (as you say, they indicate a reduced rev limit for a cold engine), but the manual does say not to turn the car off unless the first light is off. Elsewhere it says not to turn the car off until the temperature gauge needle is in the middle. I know that the dealer moved mine several times and shut it off cold on the day I picked it up, but I also know that on that day, a current RX-8 owner who was at the dealership told my wife not to shut the car off cold, because he had just learned the hard way that the RX-8 was susceptible to flooding. It may not be likely to happen, but given that it's significantly more common than any other car, what's the harm in taking a simple precaution? There are other benefits, too -- not having moisture with dissolved acids in the exhaust system or combustion chamber, for instance.
11-19-2012, 07:30 PM
#33
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I think you are missing everywhere in my post, my new owner's thread, my other advice all over the boards that I still recommend not shutting off ANY car cold, rotary or not.
I am simply saying that shutting off cold will only cause a flooding problem if you have weak ignition, compression, cranking speed, etc... I am not saying "go ahead and shut it off cold if everything is fine", because you still shouldn't.
I kinda said this multiple times in this very thread if you read what I typed. (which is uncommon, I know)
I'd bold the parts where I said this, but then it would all be bolded.
I am simply saying that shutting off cold will only cause a flooding problem if you have weak ignition, compression, cranking speed, etc... I am not saying "go ahead and shut it off cold if everything is fine", because you still shouldn't.
I kinda said this multiple times in this very thread if you read what I typed. (which is uncommon, I know)
Yes, Mazda recommends (in various methods and sources), the rotary community recommends, and nearly every piston engine enthusiast community ... all recommend not shutting an engine off cold. It's just much better for an engine to let it come up to temp first all around. I don't even turn off my MSM's engine cold, even though I don't have a flooding risk there.
The flooding risk is as stated above. If everything is healthy, there is no flooding risk shutting off cold. It's still not a good idea due to oil pressures and temps. But if you have to, you only have the flooding risk if stuff is weakening or dying.
The flooding risk is as stated above. If everything is healthy, there is no flooding risk shutting off cold. It's still not a good idea due to oil pressures and temps. But if you have to, you only have the flooding risk if stuff is weakening or dying.
11-19-2012, 08:52 PM
#34
Jims,
You have generally good advice for people, but you are mis-construing parts in the wrong direction.
A) Your friend with the RX-8 clearly needed to get his ignition healthy and/or MSP-16 (Which adjusted the fuel injection when cold to reduce excess fuel on cold shut-off to more manageable levels)
B) The LEDs on the tach are not there specifically for flooding. The LEDs are there with the tach as part of the 3 level rev limit, vs the series 1's 2 level rev limit. A rev limit will never make an impact on shutting off cold. It's there to help try and save the engine if people start trying to drive hard when cold.
Yes, Mazda recommends (in various methods and sources), the rotary community recommends, and nearly every piston engine enthusiast community ... all recommend not shutting an engine off cold. It's just much better for an engine to let it come up to temp first all around. I don't even turn off my MSM's engine cold, even though I don't have a flooding risk there.
The flooding risk is as stated above. If everything is healthy, there is no flooding risk shutting off cold. It's still not a good idea due to oil pressures and temps. But if you have to, you only have the flooding risk if stuff is weakening or dying.
The major upgrade to the engine for the Series 2 RX-8 was an improved oil injection system. I think you're at very little risk if you don't run pre-mix in a S2.
RIWWP, the LEDs may not be there specifically for flooding (as you say, they indicate a reduced rev limit for a cold engine), but the manual does say not to turn the car off unless the first light is off. Elsewhere it says not to turn the car off until the temperature gauge needle is in the middle. I know that the dealer moved mine several times and shut it off cold on the day I picked it up, but I also know that on that day, a current RX-8 owner who was at the dealership told my wife not to shut the car off cold, because he had just learned the hard way that the RX-8 was susceptible to flooding. It may not be likely to happen, but given that it's significantly more common than any other car, what's the harm in taking a simple precaution? There are other benefits, too -- not having moisture with dissolved acids in the exhaust system or combustion chamber, for instance.
RIWWP, the LEDs may not be there specifically for flooding (as you say, they indicate a reduced rev limit for a cold engine), but the manual does say not to turn the car off unless the first light is off. Elsewhere it says not to turn the car off until the temperature gauge needle is in the middle. I know that the dealer moved mine several times and shut it off cold on the day I picked it up, but I also know that on that day, a current RX-8 owner who was at the dealership told my wife not to shut the car off cold, because he had just learned the hard way that the RX-8 was susceptible to flooding. It may not be likely to happen, but given that it's significantly more common than any other car, what's the harm in taking a simple precaution? There are other benefits, too -- not having moisture with dissolved acids in the exhaust system or combustion chamber, for instance.
It was until Steve (Pluto) Kahn came to Pettits and tuned my car, that I really learned a lot about timing split, cold start and many other parameters of tuning a rotary, I would hire him again in a second just to learn more.
* There are many in the Rotary community, Judge Ito, Pluto, BDC, Himini etc... that are great are marketing themselves and promoting themselves.
I never did that, I just like to play with these car, I LOVE racing them and I LOVE beating the **** out of piston cars with them, especially the ones that cost many times more and are expecting to beat me. My enthusiasm for these cars is off the scales. It is a dream come true to have an RX8 in my garage next to my 7. I can still remember the Mazda Rev it up ack in 2003 where there was an 8 on display, I was crawling around like, looking under it, trying to see the engine and brakes and suspension. I was geeking out over that car and it was not even for sale yet.
My account on here goes back to when the car first released the this forum was in its infancy, while I was not an owner I was a lurker and when the opportunity to FINALLY get an 8 presented itself I jumped all over it.
I wish I could contribute more to this forum, I have pushed these engines VERY hard and with fantastic results. Both my engine failures were unique and not as a result of wear and tear but catastrophic failures elsewhere.
I feel my advice is sound but in the name of keeping the peace around here, since a certain member seems to be on a warpath. I will keep my keyboard out of helping others.
I will stick to F1 and beer discussions.
"No man is so foolish but he may sometimes give another good counsel, and no man so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master." - Hunter S. Thompson
11-25-2012, 06:26 AM
#35
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Ok, thanks for the oil discussion. So i am going to be picking up the car tomorrow and was wondering if any member knew what oem tire comes on the 2011? I need to know because i am looking to buy performance winter tires, but not sure if i should.
Thanks
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