blazenblue63

Um why are you downshifting to 7k!?!? Your tach. Must have been reading atleast 5k in third gear then. No need at all to downshift! And wtf are you downshifting in a corner for anyway!! Downshift before the corner then pull through it! Lemme guess you dumped the clutch into second?? No wonder you go sideways lol!!

You sir can't drive. Some people are naturals.... you're not one of them.....

blazenblue63

By downshifting too early in a corner no less you upset the car in a number of ways somebody more mechanically than me should explain....

Gle8

Allow me to reiterate.

I downshifted ENTERING the corner. As in before I turned the wheel. As in while going straight.

And based on the power delivery at 4.5k (which is where I was at), I did feel the need to downshift before entering the corner to keep the revs up. Power delivery under 5.5k in this car is mighty unimpressive. I also gave it gas on the downshift and eased out of the clutch, I didn't indiscriminately dump it.

As I said before, I'm perfectly willing to admit user error. I may not be the best driver in the world, but I have done some track time and like to think I know just a little about handling a car. Clearly I'm losing traction in the rear. And clearly the reason in this instance is the rear wheels locked for a moment due to the downshift. What I am looking for here is some helpful advice, i.e. "yeah, I did that too" or conversely "even downshifting to 7k shouldn't spin this car".

As far as your lesson on how to enter a corner, you may notice that my earlier posts alluded to the fact that if I "pull through" the corner (as I ought) then the rear breaks free. Every time. Jeesh.

blazenblue63

Well taking all that into consideration.... downshifting will only make that worse. If anything you need to upshift if the current gear breaks the rear out. Or give it less throttle or go slower through the bend. I'm thinking you're overdriving the car. At top of second you're doing what? 60 MPH? If that bend isn't on a freeway you're probably speeding. We all like to see those yellow 25 MPH signs and see how fast we can take it BUT the car is only half the story. You need the skill to control the car. A racecar driver doesn't go to a track and drives ***** out and then looks where he needs to slow down, he takes it easy and pushes it a little harder each lap. Learn the car and it's characteristics. Then adapt your driving style to fit those characteristics. Then you can play with it.

A schoolday at an advanced driving school might help a lot.

blazenblue63

Imagine your car balancing on a pole. That's the center. When you turn right all the weight goes on the left tire. And vice versa. When you break it goes forward and under acceleration the car "squats". If you turn hard and accelerate and then deccelarate by shifting then accelerate again the car moves on all axis instead of just one. Forward backwards and sideways. Even if you downshifted before the bend if you're not completely done when you start the turn it'll affect things. And by powering through the bend I don't mean gun it lol I mean slight throttle.

Gle8

Top of 2nd will get me to about 59mph....if floored through first. In this instance I was doing about 43 when I downshifted. It was a two lane texas road (middle of nowhere, no cars etc). Definitely not speeding.

Perhaps I am overdriving the car, but if so it's not up to the rigors that I thought it was capable of when I bought it.

I've tracked motorcycles for many years now, and I know better than to drive any vehicle beyond (or even close to) my limit on public roads. It's not a safe environment for pushing the envelope. I'm also very familiar with the physics of braking and cornering, and what it does to the suspension and how it distributes weight and traction. But if I've already gone beyond what this car can safely do (even on a public road) then perhaps it's not the car for me. Not faulting the car, mind you, so no need to defend it.

blazenblue63

Oh I won't defend the car. Still odd to me it behaves like a viper instead of the neutral balanced 8. It just simply doesn't have the power to accidently brake the tail out on a dry road. And since ur an experienced rider you can either drive or ur an organ donor. (I ride myself) I guess this car just doesn't suit you. Try the evolution x. I think you'll love the awd and stability controls it has. Plus more power and torque. If it wasn't out of my price range I'd have one.

Beodude

iTrader: (3)

When I go "dick butt driving" (what my friends and I call it), there is a small cloverleaf close by. I usually bring a friend with me, but it doesn't matter all that much. Anyways, I'll take pretty good sharp turns at 55 or so. 90 degree right turns that take maybe 30 ft or so to finish the turn from beginning to start? It's hard to describe, but the car does handle very nicely.

PeteInLongBeach

I'm certainly no expert on this level of aggressive driving, and I can't explain whether the OP's issue is perceptions, expectations, driving style/ability, car set-up, etc. So, if we want to compare the R3's behavior to its peers in a professional and controlled environment, we can look here:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rx-8_r3_page_7

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

oltmann

The flywheel is light, you just didn't downshift quickly enough and/or didn't blip the throttle enough.

Much easier to match the revs if you shift quickly and heel-toe.

This car needs to be driven like a sportscar.

The handling is neutral, meaning that bad inputs will make it spin.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

There is no good reason it should be breaking tail all over the place like that, but by some of the things OP has posted, I'm inclined to think user error. If you were going straight when you downshifted, even if you broke traction, the car would go right, not left. It can't go left, it's not physically possible given the direction of rotation of the driveline and wheels. So whether you realize it or not, you had already entered the corner when you shifted... if it was a rough shift, absolutely the car would jump on you, like any RWD.

You might record us a video of you driving, we'll be able to say more. But just to say, cars like this, like MR2s, like S2000's can't be driven hamfisted, throttle down a bit, learn to be smooth at lower speeds and work your way up.

Technically, a few things could produce a loose rear end.. broken sway bar endlinks (front or back)? Really bad alignment?

[edit] Realized that it would kick left if you didn't revmatch well or if you were intentionally downshifting to slow the car (rather than using the brakes to slow and downshifting to stay in the powerband)... that would kick the tail left more often than not, on any RWD.

Station Equation

What you do in first gear has nothing to do with what speed you'll get at the top of 2nd. Since transmissions have fixed ratios, the wheel speed is always the same for a given engine speed in each gear.

MPH = (1/5280) * pi * tire diameter (in feet) * (engine speed/(gear ratio*final drive ratio)) * 60

Always.

Bladecutter

Gle8,

Since your car is stock, and a bit over the 2k mile mark, maybe the problems you are having with the car is the combination of the rear tires not being as sticky as you are used to (what do you normally slap onto your cars?), combined with the slightly higher rear end of the SII cars when compared to the SI versions.

Maybe it would be worth it to use a set of Bilsteins from the SI car, and see if the lower spring perch height brings the back end under control.

With the back end higher, it allows for different handling characteristics that a car that is lower in weight transfer and camber. Maybe it's rolling onto the sidewall under extreme cornering?

What does that left tire look like?

BC.

Texas RX8 R3

Well, Gle8... I don't have very much advice to give you in order to help figure out a solution to that certain issue you mention of, but...

... It looks like you're not thoroughly happy with your R3.

The best guidance I could personally give is to head out to the track with an instructor, and show him/her what you're exactly speaking of... And then hopefully they can give some further insight on what exactly you're experiencing. At the same time, you may even better understand the strengths of this car. I'm only saying this because I would apply the same advice to myself if I were to run into a similar issue.

I hope you can figure it all out, since I can understand the frustration. And I really hope that you'll end up keeping your R3 for the long run. It's a very special sports car, once understood properly.

All the best.

Razz1

The OP is nuts.
First he says he down shifts at 7k in a corner then retrats his statement and says it was 4.5k in the straight before the corner,
Down shifting at 4.5 k and the rear kicks out..

Learn how to drive............

xexok

I did have some trouble with the rear sliding around on corners when I first got the car but thats because it was the first RWD car I had ever driven and I was giving it to much gas in the corners. That was due to me not knowing how to drive a RWD car, which this sounds like to me.

rx8r3mike

in my 09 r3. cornering fast was a easy thing to do. guess some people just dont understand how it works.

Gle8

Read it again friend.

"I'm entering a shallow right hander, and I downshift into 2nd (to about 7k rpm)"

My statement remains the same, no retractions here, only clarification.

If your only advise is "learn how to drive", my only advise is "learn how to read".

You'd think I had gotten past the point that I even bother to post responses to blowhards in forums. I suppose I do have a bit to learn....

xexok

The problem is we do know how to read and I don't think I have ever seen a post bad mouthing the rx8s handling. Its either you or your car has some type of problem as someone else posted.

Gle8

Agreed, either me or the car has some kind of problem. I get that, which is why I posted this in the first place. My comment about reading was directed exclusively at Razz1, as he quoted me as saying contrary to the words I actually posted. I am quite grateful to the valid and well thought out comments from others in this thread.

xexok

You could try taking it into Mazda and pay the $150 inspection fee and they would tell you if there was a problem. I would just take it to some shop that is willing to inspect for free though, not like they need to be a rotary guy to figure out a suspension.

Beefy98

jason did u get rid of the crap RE050s yet? How bout the suspension?