mrgo26

I searched for previous threads, couldn't find any, so...

Anyway when I am ready to purchase the RX-8, I would imagine some negoitating will come into play. I suck at bargaining/negoitating. I'm the one who says "sure, that sounds good" no matter what the dealer tells me. I just dislike that sort of confrontation. Always have, probabyly always will. Do any of you have any tips on negotiating for a better price on the 8? What tactics (if tactics is the correct work here) did you use to wheel and deal?

Also, someone please educate me on the mark-up of cars? How much are they really marked up? Say a '05 8 is on sale for $32,000. How much did the dealer get it for? Would going to the dealer and saying I want that 8 for $26,000 be too unreasonable?

Thanks!

Tremor

Use the edmunds site to find out invoice cost compared to msrp (with options) and also I believe it tells you what people in your area have typically been paying for the car.

Best deal you can make is to have financing already taken care of and without a trade. Then you can set how much you are willing to pay for the car and they can take it or leave it.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

Info can also be found at Kelly Blue Book (http://kbb.com). The site lists dealer invoice and allows you to select which options you want and what the dealer pays for them.

kmorris

check out fighting chance

it costs a few bucks, but saved me many many more, in general was worth the info I got. Some of it you can find on edmunds, but some of it you can't, like how to negotiate the best price (and it's not by starting with a really low ball offer either).

I got a great price on my car (much better than edmunds TMV or carsdirect.com)without spending hours at a dealership haggling.

pcimino

You could buy off the web (Cars Direct I think) and then just go pick it up at the dealer.

One tactic I have yet to try is you figure out your price and call the "Fleet Manager" at the dealership. They handle moving large volume, but they don't care who they sell to. I'm not sure if they have access to everything on the lot or only cars slated for fleets.

fredw1

There are probably lots of threads, especially in the Purchasing forum. I'll give a few key points. You need to know the invoice price. This is available through edmunds.com and other car sites. This is where you start. Some buyers will bargain for lower than invoice, starting at maybe $1000 below, but dealers may laugh, and being a non-confrontational person, this may not feel good to you because it starts a confrontation. But let's face it: it's your money and you have a right to defend it, and should not let anyone take it from you without a fight.

Invoice is probably a fair price, but the dealer is still making money even though they may tell you they are not. You really cannot believe anything they say when it comes to money. Their goal is to get you to pay as much as possible and many dealers will resort to any tactics to achieve this goal. By nature, the car-buying process is adversarial because of this.

Your goal should be to pay as little as possible. Since 8's are moving slowly and sales are down, some dealers with large inventories might sell for lower prices rather than let you walk to the next dealer. The key for you is to not seem overly interested in a given car, and do not appear as if you need the car anytime soon. Let the dealer know you are comparing them with other dealers, and that you can afford to wait for the right deal.

Dealers get desperate at the end of the month. I had one throw in the whole paint protection package, free oil changes, and a GT MT $800 below invoice on October 31, but he did not have the color I wanted. If I had wanted Nordic Green, I'm sure I could have bargained for even more before I closed the deal. I had the same thing happen for a black GT MT on December 30th. I wanted silver. On December 31st, I found the silver and got invoice plus lifetime free oil changes for my 8 and my wife's Avalon. In all cases, this was before rebates, which took the car well below invoice.

Check out www.carbuyingtips.com for more money-saving strategies.

FoxTypeR

I've bought two cars in the past 4 months or so and I was satisfied with the agreed upon price at both dealerships. I used the old tactic of keeping them busy, and refusing every offer they made until they came up with one that was agreeable to me. I also frequently ask the salesman or finance guy (depending on who you're doing the final negotiations with) if he can leave his office, or if my wife and I can go walk around outside for a few minutes. I've even gone so far as to tell them I want to leave and get something to eat, then I can come back and talk to them about it later. They don't like the thought of you walking out the door, you're less likely to come back and sign the papers than you are to sign them if you stay, so keep that in mind yourself.

Overall, don't be too agreeable or too disagreeable, remember, most of what you hear from the salesman is actually coming from his manager, there's an interesting series of articles on Edmund's that did some investigative journalism at car dealerships. I prefer to seem rather aloof and feign some disinterest with my body language and choice of words. Remember that they'll look for you to say something they want to hear and run with it.

Above all, if anyone ever asks you "Up to?", they're trying to get you to commit to a higher price, stand firm at your low price. "I want payments at $400 a month." "Up to?" "Up to $400 a month"

Sigma

If you want to avoid the whole thing entirely you can use CarsDirect or you can just go to Edmunds which lets you get quotes from every local dealer. They'll usually offer you close to invoice, or invoice, right off the bat because they know they're competing for your attention. All you've got to do is go in and fill out the paperwork.

cleoent

It's not a good negotiating session if you haven't gotten up and tried to leave at least once. If you're not a complete dick about they will always get you before you hit the door. I got my rx8 for a VERY competitve price (KBB.com fair private party value from a dealer) with 4 brand new bridgestone re04's put on afterwards. I was pretty excited, but i did have the ask them to leave us to talk, and I did have to get up once to leave to get it for what i wanted to pay.

FoxTypeR

Exactly, you have to make it apparent that you are the one in charge. They want your money, but you can always go somewhere else for the car. Don't chew them out or anything, but try and keep them on their toes. The best time to go in is the evening, set aside about 5-6 hours of your time, but go in (usually on a weekend as they try to move more cars then) about 3-4 hours before they close. As it gets closer to quitting time, they get more willing to accept your offer. And even if they don't, you can take their best offer and go somewhere else!

Hyperborea

You may even have to go as far as getting in your car and preparing to leave before they run over to your car with "a way to work it all out". This happened when buying the RX-8 and a VW Passat in '98. When buying my RX-8 my wife was with me and I left her in the car when I went back into the dealership to hear their new offer. I then told them that I would have to clear that offer with my "manager". I went back out to my car and sat and talked with my wife for a little bit before heading back into the dealership. It was pretty funny at the time because it was a complete reversal of the usual situation where the salesman leaves you waiting while pretending to talk to his manager about your offer while instead they discuss last night's ball game.

If you really aren't good at haggling then use a car buying service - your credit union, through your employer, Edmund's, etc. Even if you can haggle get a price through the buying service and that is now the worst price you will have to pay. You can still try to haggle at a dealership other than the one you got your offer from through the buying service. If you can't haggle a better price on your own then you just take the car buying service offer. If you can do better then take that one. On the 8 I was able to beat the buying service by a few hundred bucks (not bad for an hours work). On the Passat a few years earlier it was closer to a thousand bucks.

After the price negotiation you may think it's over but for the dealership it's just beginning. The F&I guy you will meet next is going to try hard to sell you rust proofing, paint protectors, LoJack, fabric protectors, leather guard, extended warranties, etc. This stuff is incredibly high profit for the dealership - don't buy any of it. It is mostly worthless stuff and even if you really want say an extended warranty you should be able to find it cheaper elsewhere. Even better still stuff the money you would pay for the extended warranty safely away in a good paying money market account (ING for example) and keep that for future repair costs.

lurch519

dont ever negotiate on monthly payment. best thing to do is get preapproved for a loan through an outside lender, ie your bank or credit union, lending tree, etc. get approved for the most you are willing to pay for the car, so when you go to the dealer, dont worry about the monthly payment, cause you will alread know where u are at.

when you go to the dealer, DO NOT let them know what you are preapproved for. that will only give them extra ammunition.

one of the best things to try is 3 days before the end of the month, contact all the local dealers in your area, up to the maximum distance you are willing to travel, via fax and basically say that you are looking for such and such vehicle, with such and such options, and that you are ready to buy now. let them know that you are faxing the same letter to their competitors and list the competitors in the letter, so they know exactly who they are in competition against, and ask for their best price. also make sure you give them your contact info.

when the dealerships start calling, make sure you make notes on what each and everyone tells you, even ask them to fax their quote with all particulars in writing and signed to you so you have a written copy, then try and play the dealerships against each other. "blah blah blah mazda said they would give me the car for 26000 simoleans". make them work for the sale. then when you walk into the dealership, all you have to do is sign the delivery paperwork, make out the bank check and sign it.

then enjoy your new 8. i know i do.

mrgo26

Hmmm so I did the carsdirect thing and already received one e-mail from a dealer, giving me a quote on an '05 RX-8 with GT package for $29,579. If I went through Mazda's financing, they would take $1k off, leaving it at $28,579.

Should I be happy with this or ask for a lower price???

dirtystyle

My friend just got a black RX-8 GT with Apperance Pkg, Accent Pkg, Nav, Door Edge guards, rear spoiler, shock alarm, AW floor mats for $32K even. I think he said it was right at invoice.

Personally I think they can do better mrgo26. At the very least you should know the invoice price. Goto kbb.com and determine that, then base the quality of the quote using that price.

Hyperborea

That's not bad if it includes the "destination charge". With destination charge the invoice price is $29,060. Without the "destination charge" the invoice is $28,500 (for the non-white - there's an extra charge for white). These are all from Edmunds (www.edmunds.com). However, you should be able to get at least invoice if not under. If you get them down to invoice and they won't move any more get them to throw in something that you want - like the sun screen, all weather mats, trunk tray, whatever.

As for the Mazda financing rebate, $1000 is a good discount but make sure that they aren't going to hose you on the interest rate. Get an auto loan approval from your credit union or bank - get the dealership to beat or at the very least meet that interest rate. Don't tell them your approved interest rate until they make an offer first - see what they're going to offer before revealing your hand.

pcimino

If you get Nav, make sure you get in writing, that you'll get a free Nav Map disk for 2005. The current one is 2002, woefully out of date. They're supposed to be available in August. There's another thread re: the Nav Maps.

mrgo26

So I go in to re test-drive the 8 and they tried to get me to sign a contract. This was after I told them several times I am not ready to buy as I am still deciding between the Acura and the 8. Unbelievable. They are giving me a price of $28,579. Based on what happened today, I will ask for $27,000, after TTL and throw in the 6 disc changer, otherwise no dice. May be a little demanding, but they need me more than I need them.

It was somewhat embarassing what they did...something I didn't appreciate at all.

We'll see what happens!

Johnnyma45

I'm in the midst right now of helping my parents buy a 2003 SC430 CPO. We've dealt with this specific saleswoman many times so it is pretty non confrontational, we are always honest with her and she with us. I think the main thing though is to do your research at the very least on kbb.com and edmunds.com, and then look at some sales sites such as ebay or autotrader (even if you are buying new). Then be honest with the dealer (go in saying, "I'm not buying a car today" up front, and if they still give you the time of day at least they've got that goin for them). And, if they utter the words, "What do I have to do to get you into this car today?" walk out. Or insert smart *** remark such as "bend over and kiss my ***"

Homie O'Patrick

I have also used fighting chance. You will get a very good price using their system. I figured I'd post to give that method another vote. You can basically go through the entire process without speaking to a sales person.

JIV

I've had great luck with using CarBargains as a starting tool. I got my Rx-8 for $300 under invoice, which was about $3,500 under list / msrp.