JOLIET WANKEL

got it started. turned the key and i heard the starter spool up. the drive gear didn't make contact with the flywheel. i turned the key again and then again one more time before the starter had a chance to come to a complete stop and it started. it's been starting easily for 2 days now. i don't get it.

JOLIET WANKEL

well, it's acting up again. wouldn't start. had to have it towed. gonna pick up a voltmeter and make sure the solenoid's getting power. the last time i bench-tested the solenoid, it worked and pushed the gear over. but once i put the starter back on the car it would work but then sometimes not. now, not at all. i may need you to cannibalize that extra old starter of yours. i really don't want to have to buy the upgraded starter.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

First I would verify you're getting voltage to the starter's solenoid when you (or someone else) turns the key.
Then while you're under there, listen for the solenoid to move the drive pinion and the motor to run.

JOLIET WANKEL

yeah, i know the starter motor is running because i can hear the gears.

JOLIET WANKEL

ok, removed the starter. the car is in gear. is it a bad sign if i can stick my finger through the hole and spin the ring gear on the flywheel? i think i might have alot of work to do.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Guess I didn't need to send out that solenoid today

Yeah... I've seen the gear ring pop-off the flywheel... not good:

JOLIET WANKEL

i'm not sure if it has. it's not flopping around in there. i'm just saying i can turn it. i don't think i'm supposed to be able to. maybe it's come loose.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Watch the flywheel piece the gear ring is pressed onto and see if you can tell if one moves and not the other.

JOLIET WANKEL

the only other thing i can see in there is not turning when i spin the gear. how many bolts hold the gear on the flywheel? there's definitely no bolts or sheered bolts or shrapnel in the bottom of the case.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

No bolts hold the gear on the flywheel... its pressed on.
You can tell by the pics I posted above.

JOLIET WANKEL

so the flywheel has come loose. now what?

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Replace flywheel.
The only time I've seen that gear ring pop off (the pics above) is when the clutch failed.
Or should I say, the person allowed the disc to wear down to the rivets and and disc material just flew everywhere.
It was a bad sign when I removed the starter and a lump of "fur" jumped out at me.

Anyway... not saying your clutch disc/pressure plate is also bad because you would have noticed this days prior to this occurring, but just be aware that since you're dropping the tranny, it would be a good opportunity to replace other components (clutch, pilot bearing, release bearing).
Again, its possible that the ring just simply popped-off and everything else is OK.

JOLIET WANKEL

assuming the clutch is still good, if the flywheel has simply come loose, can it just be pressed back on or will i possibly still need pilot bearings or release bearings? i don't have extra cash to blow on aftermarket parts if i don't really need them.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

If you have a decent press, you may by able to get it back on.
Normally they would heat the gear (extreme heat) to expand it and put it on the flywheel so it'll cool and contract around it.
My concern with simply pressing it on is that it probably won't hold and just come off again.
And thinking back to when I encountered this, I'm pretty sure the gear was still on the flywheel "lip" where it normally sits, so it was already on the flywheel where it should be.

If you don't want to spend the extra cash, look around the FS threads and buy a used OEM one for cheap.

JOLIET WANKEL

that's exactly where i think it is too. i'm able to wiggle it about 1mm for and aft so now i'm almost positive the flywheel will need replacing because i think the center of it has worn big.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Yeah... you should be able to see the pressure plate bolted to the flywheel, so if that isn't moving when you spin it, the gear definitely popped-off.
Many people upgrade their clutch and flywheel so you should be able to find some used ones in the FS section.
You really can't see the center of the flywheel because the pressure plate is covering it... so not sure what you're seeing there.

JOLIET WANKEL

isn't there a flywheel nut that holds the flywheel tight and a collet under the flywheel? isn't it possible that i just need that nut tightened? maybe the collet replaced and the nut tightened.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

There is a large 54mm nut, no collet... just threads onto the shaft.
The shaft is keyed, so the flywheel would have to come out quite a bit to come off the shaft.
If you've ever removed that nut and flywheel, you'll know that its pretty tough to come off.

Again, the pressure plate is bolted to the flywheel.
So if the gear is spinning and the flywheel and pressure plate isn't, there is nothing else it could be.

JOLIET WANKEL

ok then, i guess i gotta buy a flywheel.

JOLIET WANKEL

what's wierd is that for the last 2 months it has given me trouble starting alot. i would hear the gears but i knew the crankshaft wasn't being turned. if it didn't catch on the first try it would usually by the 3rd. and that's how it was half the time until just the other day when it finally just would not start.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Makes sense... the ring was slightly loose, but enough to start spinning the shaft.
Its easier to keep a shaft spinning than to initially start it (especially if the ring isn't a tight fit).
Now its to the point where the ring is too loose to get the flywheel/shaft spinning.

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

^ Exactly right. That's why electric motors have a "locked rotor" rating which is essentially electrical inertia (keep in mind that electric motors have max torque at rest - which is why they're excellent as prime propulsion systems). It's also why batteries have a peak amperage rating. It's always easier to keep something moving then to start it moving. Inertia 101.

Austin A T Allen

So I accidentally forgot to remove my batter cable while doing the starter. Now it wouldn't start what should I check after the fuse?
Thanks.

1300CC

Holy thread revival. Make sure you've connected it properly and the bolts and spade connector are secured on. Unless you have connected something improperly, It's unlikely to be a fuse. the starter should be engaging.

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

Turn on your headlights, then try to start the car.

If the headlights go 'out', then it's your battery terminals loose, fo sho.

If you just get a click or clunk, but the lights stay bright, it's a bad starter, or loose connection at the starter.

If the lights stay bright and you hear nothing, it's fuse time.

Let us know how it goes......