7andan8

So here I am, 2004 at 77,XXX miles, 40k on the second engine installed in '08, and I have the common "hard to start" issue.

I know this is a much repeated story, so I'll be brief. Local dealer says I need a 1) starter 2) battery 3) ignition coils 4) plugs, before a true compression test can be taken. I understand that. My problem? I'm out of time warranty, not mileage warranty, just the 8 year time limit! I've already done new ignition coils and plugs within the last two months so that money is spent, but am I now going to spend for a starter and battery only to find out I have a bad engine ... that I can't afford to replace on my own!?

I need some Mazda corperate help here!



What's your opinion? Do I need to suck it up and quit whinning, or would you like to see Mazda show some rotary love to one of their biggest fans?

ShinkaEvo

iTrader: (3)

why would u need 3 and 4 for compression test....?
Go to local rotary shop or local member to help you out a bit...

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

It's a nine year old car, warranties don't last forever. It's time to get it properly diagnosed and get it fixed or just get rid of it.

7andan8

I hear ya. Part of me feels the same way. But the other side of the coin, a remanufactored engine crapping out at 40k miles makes me mad.

RadRedR3

Not that I don't feel your pain, I do. But if your mileage is accurate, why would you be surprised the reman crapped out after 40k? The original only lasted 37k.

Give it up. Mazda isn't going to do anything, nor should they, after 9 years. It sucks these cars were (are?) so unreliable, but they are. Not news.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

It's a crap shoot, my original engine from japan only lasted 22k and my second reman lasted 74k, and my last only 30k and all with meticulous maintenance. But replacing engines is still more fun and cheaper than having a car payment I will play this game until I decide I want a payment on a 911 Turbo.

Bladecutter

Well, you can find out if you need a battery and a starter rather easily.

Take car to auto parts store, and have them test the battery/electrical system.
That will tell you how powerful your battery is, and should also give you a readout on the cranking speed of the starter in some cases.

If the starter spins the engine below 250 rpms during cranking, you need a new one. If the battery is below its threshold, you need a new one.

BC.

Junkman 6394226

Upgraded Duralast starter from Autozone fixed that problem for me. Easy peasy. Has never failed to start once no matter how hot or 'flooded' the engine was.

7andan8

Wow! I wish I had your connections that allow you to say that! Considering the average RX-8 owner is looking at $5000-$7000 for an engine change, I'm not seeing the fun ... and it seems a lot like a car payment amount. On the other hand, I'm totally with you on the Porsche purchase.


BC, I agree with you on the battery and starter steps. I know I still have the old starter, at least the dealer told me I did, haven't looked yet. So I suppose the next steps are to the local Advance Auto for a battery check and hunting for a starter.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

5-7 grand for an engine? I keep seeing this misinformation thrown around on the forum, and I can't tell if it's just exaggeration or actual perception. Perhaps these are the same people who think only mazda dealers can work on these cars?

If only there were a way to get the same job done for $2500-4000...hmmm.

EDIT: ...and this misinformation being spread by someone local enough to me that they should have prior knowledge of this. For shame.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

But to answer the question, NO, I do not think mazda owes you anything. In fact I think they've already gone far over and above what they should have as a show of good faith. Because they sold a car back in 2003 does not mean they should have to be tied to it for the rest of it's roadworthy life. Look around, it's now 2013, soon the 2014 models will be coming out. Why are we still talking about warrantying 04, 05, and 06 rx8's?

Everyone who bought the new rotary engine car knew the history of the engine (or should have) and knew they were taking a bit of a chance with total reliability and longevity, as well as the engine being difficult to repair (for the general public) and parts being expensive. Using the above analogy, would you buy a porsche and then when it falls out of warranty complain that porsche is not doing enough to help you with repairs after the car, which is known to be expensive to maintain and finicky, begins to have issues? Or would you say to yourself, "I have an 8 year old porsche, not an 8 year old camry, I should have expected this."?

7andan8

Look back at my post, I did say "average" people. As crazy as it seems, most people with RX-8's take it to the dealer. Sad but true.

Do tell.

Intended to mean me?

I agree. Not tied to it (the car) for the rest of its roadworthy life. But 100k miles on the motor? Yes.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

Which is probably one of the worst places you can take it, unfortunately.


Think of it as a scavenger hunt with the reward being several thousand $ on a rebuild and install job. The answer is on this very page...indeed, in this very post.

You can always do a google search for my username and see what comes up.

I'm not at liberty to discuss things further publicly on this forum.

Your profile location says you are only a few hours up the road from me...


[Preface this by saying that I fully recognize that the rotary engine in stock form is not very "fast"...but the point remains it is unusual, difficult to understand for most people, and expensive to repair because of it's low production volume.]

[Also preface this by saying that I understand mazda markets these cars differently than I am about to describe them, but that does not change the reality of the situation.]

Would you say the same thing about an exotic sportscar like a ferrari, lambo, porsche, lotus, etc.? What people fail to realize is that what they have here with a rotary engine sportscar is the slower and cheaper version of an exotic sportscar. When you understand what the engine is and the fact that most components of it are available from only one source around the world, then suddenly it all makes sense to you and you don't expect joe's corner garage to accurately be able to repair your car, or that you could buy parts at autozone for $25 like you could for a foxbody mustang, or that it should be warrantied for many years or 100k miles.

EmperorBen

man, I hope to keep my 1st engine longer than that... still running strong at ~47k miles. My prior rx8 '04 had ~68k original miles on the original engine. guess I lucked out and asked for it by buying another rx8 lol. Then again I had an S4 FC with 260+ miles on the N/A engine lol

ken-x8

What's crazy about going to the dealer? Maybe when it comes to dealing with a blown engine out of warranty you need to look at all options, but I've been pretty happy with maintenance at my dealer. Good prices for oil changes, a comfortable (but not lush) place to sit if I wait, no quibbling on stuff that was under warranty. Work done correctly the first time. No leftover parts.

Ken

Bladecutter

Show me a single sports car manufacturer that offers a warranty on their engine for 100k miles.

There isn't one.

You want an engine guaranteed to last 100k miles, buy a commuter car, or an American pickup truck, not a sports car.
Doesn't mean that the engine really will make it to 100k, no mater the vehicle.

BC.

7andan8

First engine = 35k, Second engine = 42k ... ??

I might be a lot more agreeable to your point if my engines were getting close! And the reason I make that statement is because Mazda believes it should be running 100k miles, their warranty says so. I have two RX-7's with over 100k miles. Why shouldn't we expect Mazda to build the same quality and durability in the next generation rotary?

It's funny how the perception of a rotary has all of a sudden changed. At one point people used to swear, "The rotary is a simple engine. Fewer moving parts to go wrong." lol ... Now all of a sudden it's a race engine full of complexity.

ken-x8

The warranty does not say it should run 100k miles. The warranty is there because some engines don't last, and Mazda is supporting their customers with replacements.

Isn't there some car commercial where a salesman for Brand X touts how great their warranty is, rather than how great their car is?

Rotaries are nice and simple compared to piston engines. Unfortunately, the seals are complicated compared to piston rings.

Ken

Bladecutter

The problem is that the American and Canadian markets are the only ones that received that warranty extension. Anywhere else in the world, the warranty is only 36k miles. You would have just barely been covered by the warranty for the first engine, and your second engine would have been on your dime had you not lived where you live.

There are other car companies that are worse than Mazda.
VW Americas will regularly deny warranty claims on various parts of the entire drivetrain, gas and diesel, automatic or dsg transmission.
Porsche has the IMS failure that has killed many a Boxster, Cayman, and 911 engine since 1997. That doesn't even include D-Chunk, porous block, or cylinder heads that crack near the valve seats, and leak coolant into the combustion chamber.

The only consolation with Porsche is that you initially get a 4 year 50k mile warranty to start off with, but then again, they aren't selling vehicles to the same people that are going to buy your typical Mazda, Toyota, Ford or Dodge vehicle.

Should the engine be able to last 100k miles?
Yes. But their design of the Series I engine cut too many corners to make it that far. Be grateful they extended the warranty at all for us here on this continent, otherwise our cars would have even less value than they currently do.

Heck, I'm just amazed that there hasn't been a black market developed for non-Americans to ship their dead engines to friends in the US, who then get the engine replaced under warranty, and shipped back to them, over the years.

BC.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

I have an 85 corvette with <100k miles. I think I'm going to take it in for warranty evaluation on the engine. GM says the 350 SBC is a good engine, so they should stand behind it for at least 100k miles no matter it's age.

7andan8

Lol, yea, that's an equivalent example.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

It's obviously an exaggerated example meant to show you the true logic of the situation: time is just as important a factor in warranty consideration as mileage.

Take this car for example. Mazda : RX-7 2dr Converti in Mazda | eBay Motors

600 miles on a 90 model. You'd think it would be worth more than when it was new, wouldn't you? But it's not, and many buyers will be afraid of it (rightfully so). Because even though it has no MILEAGE on it, it has the same amount of TIME on it as any other 90 rx7.

Take a look at this. 85 camaro stored since new with 4 miles on it.
TIME is not kind to vehicles and is almost as bad as high mileage. Rubber deteriorates. Paper gaskets crack. Fluid becomes acidic and ineffective. Fuel turns to varnish and rusts or clogs everything it touches. Moving parts become stuck.

ken-x8

But those are Corvette owner miles. What would be the equivalent Camry owner miles?

As the owner of old cars in my youth, and as a keeper of new cars til they fall apart, I second your comments about age. Rubber will never be immortal. It was leaks and engine mounts and the like that finally prompted my wife and I to trade in her '94 Camry last year, even though it was mileage young at 105K.

Ken

7andan8

True logic? The fact of the matter is, there are always extreme examples of EVERYTHING! I'm not sure why we went down this road, showing video of Chevy's for sale, but if we try to connect it to my situation again ...

Mazda has built an engine that has in the past been very reliable. Something went wrong with this version and they've tried to make it right by offering the extended warranty. My only hope was that I'd get consideration for my situation (mentioned above). I'm not planning to argue every counterpoint the forum members can come up with, many of which will be valid points, some not so.

So, back to real discussion. Since I'm planning to get the new battery and starter ... Why is there a $400 reman starter at Mazda sites and a $120 starter at the local auto parts store? Advise.

ken-x8

Same reason you can pay $200 to $240 for a set of spark plugs at a dealer, and buy the identical plugs for under $80 at local parts stores and reputable on-line places like Rock Auto.

Check the part number and power rating of the $120 starter. There are a lot of posts here discussing those specifics.

Ken