my driving impressions of FD vs. RX-8
08-07-2004, 04:13 PM
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my driving impressions of FD vs. RX-8
well...i've been expectantly waiting for the RX-8 for many many years, ever since the RX-EVOLV i've been wishfully following it, and when it finally hit showrooms i was one of the first to check 'em out, and after driving it 3 times i really REALLY wanted it, badly. and then 2 weeks ago i bought an FD 
reason mostly being that, though 28k (6mt w/ sport package) for the 8 is excellent value, it's still way too much for me. i cannot and should not buy a car like that right now. but i feel so antsy! and in the recent years FD prices have become somewhat reasonable, so... plus, i feel that FD's should retain its value pretty well, being that so few were imported. i plan to keep it as original as possible baring reliability mods. ...and then perhaps 10 years down the line, i'll get a used 8 :D anyway, after having it for 2 days, here's my impression
to start off, FD is a COMPLETELY different machine. it's an animal. a little on styling: it's sculpted to be sexy and flashy (more so in person), in the most traditional sports car terms. in comparison, the RX-8 feels much more sensible and practical, much more justifiable and elicits less guilt. the FD feels like a toy. the interior is more pure-sports-car-like, very stylish, whereas the 8's insides are stylish, sensible, and user-friendly, much more refined, although the 11 years that separate the two cars contributes to this. firing up the FD and letting it idle, it sounds like a sports bike and elicits a feeling of classic sports cars like C2 Corvette Sting Ray or Jag E-Type. it really is a purpose-built pure sports car, and standing there watching and listening to it, i felt really guilty for getting it 'cuz it just felt so much like a big toy. the 8, in comparison, again felt like it'd be a much more justifiable purchase. at ignition the 13B-REW revs up to around 3000 to warm up, and then drops down to 800~1000 normal idle, kinda unusual. it's louder, not as smooth and refined (again, the age contributes to this) as the RENESIS, at least it feels that way to me. and its behavior and the care required as printed in the owners manual (other stuff not withstanding) again separates it from the 8. it feels like it would constantly require attention, like some spoiled pet, whereas the 8 in comparison seems to have become a lot more user-friendly. now i understand first hand how FD really was not suitable for the masses as a simple transportation device (like the corvette, for example; a lot of people seem to drive it everyday to and from work w/o complaint...). so then i take her out on the road. i haven't spiked her yet; the highest i've gone was maybe 5000rpm. i want to get used to her first, and i don't want to break anything :p while the RX-8, to me, doesn't feel underpowered at all, the FD does feel less strained, owing to the twin turbo i guess. it pulls well at lower revs, and i've been pinned to the seat a few times when i accidently gave it a bit too much gas. i do confess i am a little scared of it, for now. the 8, on the other hand, feels like a regular docile car at the lower rpms, and needs to be wound up to make it wild, and it can get pretty wild. FD's redline is lower, and the tach only goes up to 9k, 1k less than the 8's. in this sense, then, the 8 feels more high-tech and refined, which it is. yesterday i took the FD onto the freeway. she's REALLY easy to get up in the speeds. it's my first time on the freeway in the FD, so i was being very careful. without noticing it, very soon after the on ramp i was cruisint in 5th gear doing 80, and i had to back off. i think the FD couldn've benefited from a 6th gear. in the upper gears she still accelerates well. it's really an impressive car. i'm very very impressed and more than satisfied, though of course i'm biased. i never had a chance to take the 8 on the interstate, though i did go thru an autocross circuit once and i'd venture to guess that FD probably does pull better. as far as ride goes, mine's an R1 so it's firmer. driving locally on reasonably smooth roads, the FD is very tolerable. i've been driving an explorer for 7 years so i'm used to rough rides :D in the past 2 days i've been cruising around my neighborhood a lot and it's stiff but really the ride doesn't bother me at all. on the freeway it's different. at speeds w/ the windows up, it's loud, shakey, lots of vibration, feels like the magic finger. from my brief freeway stint it doesn't feel unstable, just rough. and fun. and not dampened. but still, it's not unacceptable to me. in comparison, the 8 felt more comfortable. jumping from my explorer into the 8, it felt firmer but not jarring, not un-refined. riding in the FD leaves a bigger impression. getting back into my explorer, the steering felt like marshmellow and the ride like a town car. ha. pulling up to a stop, the FD's need for pampering is manifested in the turbo's cooling. i don't have a turbo timer yet, so i'm using the el cheapo brand, my casio stop watch. i let it idle for about 5 minutes (somebody tell me if this is too long) before i shut her off. this creates some awkward moments. i was at the gas station last night and i didn't know what to do. should i just shut her off or let her idle a bit and let everone watch me? so all in all, the FD is a blast in all ways. since she arrived, i've said aloud many many times "oh i love this car." (but then again i've said that almost every time i see an RX-8 in person) reliability gremlins do haunt me in my dreams day and night. last night the ABS light came on that got me a bit shaken up, but then it went away the next time i fired up the motor. it is such a single-minded sports car, it feels more like a lotus or sting ray than a z or supra. it harkens back to the old days of classic sports cars that's unrefined, somewhat wild, always requires attention, or maybe even requires me to become somewhat of a mechanic. that's how i feel. and i think that's why the FD failed as far as marketing goes here; it's not idiot-proof. the improvements and transformations that went into the RX-8 seem really apparent to me now, and really i'm glad that mazda made the 8 the way it is, 'cuz really i think 90% of regular joes in their right minds probably wouldn't buy an RX-8 designed and built like the FD nowadays. don't get me wrong, FD is really EXCELLENT, an amazing feat of engineering and guts, but it's just not for everyone. i hope it's suitable for me, and i for it, 'cuz otherwise i'd have to sell her, and i'd be really sad. but then if that were the case, then i'd just get a used RX-8 when i can afford one
reason mostly being that, though 28k (6mt w/ sport package) for the 8 is excellent value, it's still way too much for me. i cannot and should not buy a car like that right now. but i feel so antsy! and in the recent years FD prices have become somewhat reasonable, so... plus, i feel that FD's should retain its value pretty well, being that so few were imported. i plan to keep it as original as possible baring reliability mods. ...and then perhaps 10 years down the line, i'll get a used 8 :D anyway, after having it for 2 days, here's my impressionto start off, FD is a COMPLETELY different machine. it's an animal. a little on styling: it's sculpted to be sexy and flashy (more so in person), in the most traditional sports car terms. in comparison, the RX-8 feels much more sensible and practical, much more justifiable and elicits less guilt. the FD feels like a toy. the interior is more pure-sports-car-like, very stylish, whereas the 8's insides are stylish, sensible, and user-friendly, much more refined, although the 11 years that separate the two cars contributes to this. firing up the FD and letting it idle, it sounds like a sports bike and elicits a feeling of classic sports cars like C2 Corvette Sting Ray or Jag E-Type. it really is a purpose-built pure sports car, and standing there watching and listening to it, i felt really guilty for getting it 'cuz it just felt so much like a big toy. the 8, in comparison, again felt like it'd be a much more justifiable purchase. at ignition the 13B-REW revs up to around 3000 to warm up, and then drops down to 800~1000 normal idle, kinda unusual. it's louder, not as smooth and refined (again, the age contributes to this) as the RENESIS, at least it feels that way to me. and its behavior and the care required as printed in the owners manual (other stuff not withstanding) again separates it from the 8. it feels like it would constantly require attention, like some spoiled pet, whereas the 8 in comparison seems to have become a lot more user-friendly. now i understand first hand how FD really was not suitable for the masses as a simple transportation device (like the corvette, for example; a lot of people seem to drive it everyday to and from work w/o complaint...). so then i take her out on the road. i haven't spiked her yet; the highest i've gone was maybe 5000rpm. i want to get used to her first, and i don't want to break anything :p while the RX-8, to me, doesn't feel underpowered at all, the FD does feel less strained, owing to the twin turbo i guess. it pulls well at lower revs, and i've been pinned to the seat a few times when i accidently gave it a bit too much gas. i do confess i am a little scared of it, for now. the 8, on the other hand, feels like a regular docile car at the lower rpms, and needs to be wound up to make it wild, and it can get pretty wild. FD's redline is lower, and the tach only goes up to 9k, 1k less than the 8's. in this sense, then, the 8 feels more high-tech and refined, which it is. yesterday i took the FD onto the freeway. she's REALLY easy to get up in the speeds. it's my first time on the freeway in the FD, so i was being very careful. without noticing it, very soon after the on ramp i was cruisint in 5th gear doing 80, and i had to back off. i think the FD couldn've benefited from a 6th gear. in the upper gears she still accelerates well. it's really an impressive car. i'm very very impressed and more than satisfied, though of course i'm biased. i never had a chance to take the 8 on the interstate, though i did go thru an autocross circuit once and i'd venture to guess that FD probably does pull better. as far as ride goes, mine's an R1 so it's firmer. driving locally on reasonably smooth roads, the FD is very tolerable. i've been driving an explorer for 7 years so i'm used to rough rides :D in the past 2 days i've been cruising around my neighborhood a lot and it's stiff but really the ride doesn't bother me at all. on the freeway it's different. at speeds w/ the windows up, it's loud, shakey, lots of vibration, feels like the magic finger. from my brief freeway stint it doesn't feel unstable, just rough. and fun. and not dampened. but still, it's not unacceptable to me. in comparison, the 8 felt more comfortable. jumping from my explorer into the 8, it felt firmer but not jarring, not un-refined. riding in the FD leaves a bigger impression. getting back into my explorer, the steering felt like marshmellow and the ride like a town car. ha. pulling up to a stop, the FD's need for pampering is manifested in the turbo's cooling. i don't have a turbo timer yet, so i'm using the el cheapo brand, my casio stop watch. i let it idle for about 5 minutes (somebody tell me if this is too long) before i shut her off. this creates some awkward moments. i was at the gas station last night and i didn't know what to do. should i just shut her off or let her idle a bit and let everone watch me? so all in all, the FD is a blast in all ways. since she arrived, i've said aloud many many times "oh i love this car." (but then again i've said that almost every time i see an RX-8 in person) reliability gremlins do haunt me in my dreams day and night. last night the ABS light came on that got me a bit shaken up, but then it went away the next time i fired up the motor. it is such a single-minded sports car, it feels more like a lotus or sting ray than a z or supra. it harkens back to the old days of classic sports cars that's unrefined, somewhat wild, always requires attention, or maybe even requires me to become somewhat of a mechanic. that's how i feel. and i think that's why the FD failed as far as marketing goes here; it's not idiot-proof. the improvements and transformations that went into the RX-8 seem really apparent to me now, and really i'm glad that mazda made the 8 the way it is, 'cuz really i think 90% of regular joes in their right minds probably wouldn't buy an RX-8 designed and built like the FD nowadays. don't get me wrong, FD is really EXCELLENT, an amazing feat of engineering and guts, but it's just not for everyone. i hope it's suitable for me, and i for it, 'cuz otherwise i'd have to sell her, and i'd be really sad. but then if that were the case, then i'd just get a used RX-8 when i can afford one
08-07-2004, 05:00 PM
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You can prevent the 3k rpm start up by leaving the car in gear when you start, then just pull in to neutral when its running. The 3k startup is generally considered unneccessary wear and the purpose of it is to accellerate the warmup of the catalytic converter.
As far as turbo timers go, there's quite a debate on that one. I have one on my FD but I use it only for running the electric fans for a few minutes after shutdown to aid in preventing too much heat soak from the turbos. I shut the engine off, turn the key back on and engage the turbo timer, then turn the key off and press the AC button. This makes the fans run until the turbo timer shuts down - I set mine for 4 minutes. As long as you drive the last mile before you stop relativley calmly then there's really no need to idle the car before you shut the engine off - back before water-cooled turbos it was more of an issue since the only cooling in there was the oil and you could cook it if they were too hot when you shut down. At least that's my opinion anyhow.
I agree the FD is a different beast than the rx-8 - I just got my FD back running again two weeks ago after a year up on jackstands and it's good to have it back on the road. I notice that it has a lot more low-down pickup than the 8 and it definately feels more like a purpose sports car. The 8 is no slouch and it handles and brakes fantastically but you do have to get it wound up to get the most out of the engine (which is half the fun).
Cheers,
Simon.
As far as turbo timers go, there's quite a debate on that one. I have one on my FD but I use it only for running the electric fans for a few minutes after shutdown to aid in preventing too much heat soak from the turbos. I shut the engine off, turn the key back on and engage the turbo timer, then turn the key off and press the AC button. This makes the fans run until the turbo timer shuts down - I set mine for 4 minutes. As long as you drive the last mile before you stop relativley calmly then there's really no need to idle the car before you shut the engine off - back before water-cooled turbos it was more of an issue since the only cooling in there was the oil and you could cook it if they were too hot when you shut down. At least that's my opinion anyhow.
I agree the FD is a different beast than the rx-8 - I just got my FD back running again two weeks ago after a year up on jackstands and it's good to have it back on the road. I notice that it has a lot more low-down pickup than the 8 and it definately feels more like a purpose sports car. The 8 is no slouch and it handles and brakes fantastically but you do have to get it wound up to get the most out of the engine (which is half the fun).
Cheers,
Simon.
08-07-2004, 09:00 PM
#5
Originally Posted by sferrett
You can prevent the 3k rpm start up by leaving the car in gear when you start, then just pull in to neutral when its running. The 3k startup is generally considered unneccessary wear and the purpose of it is to accellerate the warmup of the catalytic converter.
08-07-2004, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SP767
Okay fellas...I give...I guess it's just my age (40). I have no flippin idea what an "fd" is. Should I know?! LOL...
In case you dont know what it looks like for some reason...
08-07-2004, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sferrett
You can prevent the 3k rpm start up by leaving the car in gear when you start, then just pull in to neutral when its running
08-07-2004, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonHamilton
Are you sure about that? I can promise you that my car never goes over 2k rpm when it starts up, in gear or in neutral (I tend to leave it in neutral when I park, but not always). I have the M flash.
08-07-2004, 10:37 PM
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Chinx, congrats on the 7. I love my R-1, and I am sure you will love yours. Is it modded? I am glad it isn't your only vehicle, FDs can be a bit tempermental. Good luck with it, and I think your assesment is pretty much correct.
Last edited by Senseny; 08-07-2004 at 10:39 PM.
08-07-2004, 11:53 PM
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I have an FD and I am seriously considering selling it for the 8, for basically the same reasons that you mention!
I think you did a good job of describing the differences between these two cars. I don't think there is anything that I disagree with. In short, the FD is an animal, the 8 is more refined. They are both fun as hell to drive, but the FD is definitely faster, no doubt about that.
The reliability issues are what prevent me from enjoying my FD more than I could.
I think you did a good job of describing the differences between these two cars. I don't think there is anything that I disagree with. In short, the FD is an animal, the 8 is more refined. They are both fun as hell to drive, but the FD is definitely faster, no doubt about that.
The reliability issues are what prevent me from enjoying my FD more than I could.
08-08-2004, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by chinx
i do confess i am a little scared of it, for now.
I enjoyed your write up, brought back some good memories of my old FD. Congrats and enjoy!
08-08-2004, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SP767
Okay fellas...I give...I guess it's just my age (40). I have no flippin idea what an "fd" is. Should I know?! LOL...
08-09-2004, 02:52 AM
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I still had my FD when I went to test drive the RX-8. In fact, I drove the FD there.
My very first thought was that I missed the turbos. However, I soon realised that the car wasn't as slow as I first thought - the power delivery so linear, and everything about the car was so smooth as to cause a large disparity between my butt dyno and the speedometer. :p
And then there was the handling. The FD is like a wild steed that you have to reign in all the time, whereas the 8 is more like piloting some futuristic alien spacecraft that can read your mind - it simply goes right where you want it with very little drama.
It's hard to say which has the higher limits from driving on public roads, partially because the stock tires on the 8 definitely aren't the greatest. I've noticed that people who claim their cars can outhandle the 8 always have much better tires, and often suspension mods as well. I'd be willing to bet that tire for tire and mod for mod the 8 can hang with almost anything this side of an Elise in handling and braking.
Finally, on my way back to the dealership, I came across a patch of extremely rough road with a lot of potholes (if you've ever been to MI you know what I'm talking about). Being used to the FD, I instinctively cringed and braced for impact, and as the car went over the potholes I felt.... nothing. In fact, I'm still amazed at that, how the car can have such razor sharp handling and plenty of feedback, and yet be so gentle over bumps at the same time. It's like Mazda has out BMWed BMW.
In conclusion: excellent car, great value, on my short list.
My very first thought was that I missed the turbos. However, I soon realised that the car wasn't as slow as I first thought - the power delivery so linear, and everything about the car was so smooth as to cause a large disparity between my butt dyno and the speedometer. :p
And then there was the handling. The FD is like a wild steed that you have to reign in all the time, whereas the 8 is more like piloting some futuristic alien spacecraft that can read your mind - it simply goes right where you want it with very little drama.
It's hard to say which has the higher limits from driving on public roads, partially because the stock tires on the 8 definitely aren't the greatest. I've noticed that people who claim their cars can outhandle the 8 always have much better tires, and often suspension mods as well. I'd be willing to bet that tire for tire and mod for mod the 8 can hang with almost anything this side of an Elise in handling and braking.
Finally, on my way back to the dealership, I came across a patch of extremely rough road with a lot of potholes (if you've ever been to MI you know what I'm talking about). Being used to the FD, I instinctively cringed and braced for impact, and as the car went over the potholes I felt.... nothing. In fact, I'm still amazed at that, how the car can have such razor sharp handling and plenty of feedback, and yet be so gentle over bumps at the same time. It's like Mazda has out BMWed BMW.
In conclusion: excellent car, great value, on my short list.
08-09-2004, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by m477
And then there was the handling. The FD is like a wild steed that you have to reign in all the time, whereas the 8 is more like piloting some futuristic alien spacecraft that can read your mind - it simply goes right where you want it with very little drama.
It's hard to say which has the higher limits from driving on public roads, partially because the stock tires on the 8 definitely aren't the greatest. I've noticed that people who claim their cars can outhandle the 8 always have much better tires, and often suspension mods as well. I'd be willing to bet that tire for tire and mod for mod the 8 can hang with almost anything this side of an Elise in handling and braking.
It's hard to say which has the higher limits from driving on public roads, partially because the stock tires on the 8 definitely aren't the greatest. I've noticed that people who claim their cars can outhandle the 8 always have much better tires, and often suspension mods as well. I'd be willing to bet that tire for tire and mod for mod the 8 can hang with almost anything this side of an Elise in handling and braking.
I recently bought an OPTION Vol.3 DVD. (For those who don't know, OPTION is one of Japan's leading car tuning magazines.) In the DVD, Amemiya-san (Japan's legendary rotary tuner "RE Amemiya") travels to Leguna Seca to drive the RX-8 for the first time. He immediately comments on how terrific the handling is, surpassing the handling of the FD. Overall he says the car is great, with nothing bad to say, except he can't wait to tune it and give it some Amemiya styling.
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