A 6s Owner

Since the Mazda 6 forums that I frequent are down and don't seem to be coming back anytime soon, I thought I'd offer my review...or two cents... on the automatic RX-8 in this forum.

Just a little warning: it's a nasty one, and if you happen to own an automatic RX-8, either stop reading, or prepare to be offended.

I'm going to jump right into it by saying this: There's no way in hell I'll be trading my 6 for an RX-8..not even for the 6 speed manual because of its price.

Let me put some numbers into your heads first..

The Mazda 6 I own is a 5 speed manual 6s (the "s" denoting the v6 220hp stock engine) in Lapis Blue and cloth. This included a Sports Package, Bose Package, sports grille, and alarm shock sensor upgrade.

Its got an MSRP of $23,720, though I scored a deal and took it for $23,000 out the door for it.

An RX-8 in automatic starts at a base MSRP of $25,700 (where I live at least).

Six speed manual starts at a little over 27 grand.

Even though you 8 owners could care less, here's what I got for that price in these two packages:

The Bose Package included 6 Bose speakers (2 tweeters), a modest subwoofer in the trunk, and a 6 disc cd-changer.

The Sports Package is basically a sportier exhaust, better looking front and rear bumpers, side moldings, a rear wing spoiler, 17" wheels (instead of the standard 16" ones), and more stylish display gauges.

At any rate, I've owned the 6 for about 5 months now, and yesterday after my oil change at the nearby Mazda dealer, I decided that it was time to test drive an 8 because one near the waiting room caught my eye.

They only had two RX-8s that weren't already sold/pre-ordered aside from the one in the showroom: one was a fully loaded black 6 speed, with over $30,000 or so on the sticker; the other was a silver automatic in a Sport Package with cloth for almost $28,000. The salesman was reluctant to let me test drive the 6 speed since I told him I was just "checking out the car," so I went with the automatic. Big mistake.

The interior was amazing looking (like the exterior), and it was comfortable as hell. (And this was just cloth.) That's saying a lot for what's supposedly a sports car. The driver and passenger's air conditioning vents are just like the ones on my 6 though. Steering wheel controls are also identical to my 6's, except for the shifting buttons of course.

When I was about to pull that gorgeous looking silver automatic out of the lot, I got excited and buckled my seat belt thinking, "Alright, let's see what kind of a kick an extra $4,000 would give me," even though it was just an automatic.

For about 15 minutes, I drove the hell out of this car, stopped at a redlight and then floored it (did this twice actually, and the salesman didn't seem too thrilled). Within 6 minutes, I realized that the speed I was looking for just wasn't there. I couldn't believe how awful the performance was in this automatic sports car. It had a nice pick up when you reached higher RPMs, but from a dead standstill, it simply sucked.

Reaching 60 from 0 felt like forever in this RX-8 I test drove. As a wild guess, I'd say it's gotta be somewhere over 8.5 seconds. Is that where the 8 comes from in this car's title? (Just joking.)

The pathetic part is, my 6 reaches zero to sixty somewhere around 6.7 - 6.9 seconds. Hell, I almost bought a 6 in automatic because I had such a difficult time finding one in manual, and if I remember correctly, even THAT seemed like it was faster than this auto 8!

After I got back to the lot, I pounded the salesman with a bunch of questions about the pickup and non-sporty performance. He uneasily admitted that the automatic 8 has less horsepower than my 5 speed sedan does. Bleh. What a let down. (Especially at that price.)

While it's completely understandable that an automatic is obviously going to be slower than manual, Mazda really seems to have taken the zest and fun out of the 8 in this 4 speed automatic version. The automatic RX-8, to my surprise, has about 50 less horses than the manual 6 speed. I don't know why the hell they've decided to do this, but what I can tell you is that there's no way I'm going to trade in my Mazda6 + spend an extra 10 grand on a 6 speed RX-8 that isn't even fully loaded.

A BASE MSRP of $25,700 is one hefty frigging price to pay for one of the slowest automatic sports cars I've ever had the chance to drive. I'm not kidding either when I say one of the slowest. For that much cash, you can get a 5 speed Mazda 6s that is fully loaded, and it has a helluva lot of better performance. Yeah, the RX8 is hands down more stylish and attractive than the sedanish looking Mazda 6, but when you're spending that much cash, looks should come secondary to performance. The automatic RX-8's performance is comparable to today's automatic V6 Mustang (hell it's probably even slower), and you can get that car for under $20,000.

A $27,500 sticker places you in either a 6 speed manual with no packages, or an automatic with the Sports Package. "Truthfully, you're not going to get both performance and luxury out of an RX-8 unless you buy one in manual and come up closer to the $30,000 range," says my cunning little salesman. That statement of his blew the whole trade-in idea right there for me.

I was under the misconception that the 4 speed automatic would be only a tad bit slower than the 6 speed manual. In reality, these two versions of the RX-8 seem like they're two completely different cars. Review sites say the 6 speed can do 60 in 6 seconds flat (maybe even in the upper 5s), so I was expecting... say... maybe mid/high 7s to get to 60 seconds in the automatic. That would be a much more acceptable performance given the $2,000 price decrease. Instead, the auto seems to have the performance of an automatic sedan. Sorry but, that's just not worth it.

I left the dealership today disappointed about what I learned, and I'm definitely going to be sticking with my manual 6s. I'd rather waste money modding my 6s to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed RX-8, than trade it in and blow $10,000 on a manual RX-8 with no packages included.

Many of you would disagree with that, but I'm looking at the cars by performance versus price. Style comes into play here as well, but then again, the 350Z is quiet stylish too if I recall.

But oh man...I still can't wait. Some hotrod in his new, automatic RX-8, is going to pull up to me at a stoplight, rev his engine a few times thinking he's got some hot **** under there, and then I'm going to die of laugher as I leave his *** in the dust with my modest looking sports sedan. Hey, at least I've got something to look forward to.

midniteblue

between the two, which car would have a more lasting appeal on everyone's mind? the 8 stands out hands down

however, i think that your review is justifiable by the standards you set. It's good to have a bit of criticism on a great car such as the 8 that way mazda can re-evaluate what they can do to improve on their products. Definitely brought up some good points to consider...

OmegaBob

Since I have test driven (twice) the AT 8s that my dealer has, I'll briefly chime in.

Did you drive it in fully automatic mode or did you try the manual mode? (it's late and I'm tired so Im not going to re-read your enitre post)

I found the AT to be a blast to drive. It seemed at least as fast (but I thought much faster) than my ol 2k Celica GT-S AT.

Since I don't plan to race it, 0-60 times mean poop to me.

Haven't we all learned our lesson about racing from "Back to the Future 3"?

rael

Our Mazda 6 owner has a point which has ben made before. The 8 is a sports car to be driven manually utilising the gear ratio at high revs. The automatic is passive and a lot, lot slower.

But which car look the better - no contest and should he meet a manual at the light he will be in for a shock.

Also. seems a very long piece just to slag of the 8?

rael

R32

Wasn't the HP drop for the automatics done because the tranny couldn't handle the high rpm?

Things that are more sad: 163hp Cooper S's with quite a few problems for about the same price as the 6s.

javahut

My thoughts, too. Wouldn't have thought a Mazda owner would have this much vitriol against the AT 8. Seems more like he's trying to convince himself he has the right car.

I've also heard opposite opinions from those that have driven both that say the AT 8 is ever so slightly quicker than the 6... or at least feels so.

Winning

Other options for you to consider:
1. Modding a Honda Accord to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed S2000 or maybe even NSX.
2. Modding a Nissan Maxima to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed 350Z
3. Modding an Audi A4 to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed Audi TT

If you want an even better value for money package:
1. Modding a Honda Civic to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed S2000 or maybe even NSX.
2. Modding a Nissan Sentra to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed 350Z
3. Modding an VW Beetle to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed Audi TT


I think you make a wrong mistake buying a Mazda 6, IMHO you should :
*Bought a protege instead and mod it to get it closer to the 6 second mark of the 6 speed Mazda RX8.

pelucidor

What an amusing article. So an extra $4000 should get you much faster straight line performance in your opinion. One question, did you try any corners or just accelerate from a stoplight in a straight line in your 15 minutes. And the fact you didn't like the auto means that you will hate the 6MT because (loaded with much more equipment than your current car) it costs more. Haha.

Reading your lengthy review I would hazard a guess it is one of the worst of the dozens I have read here - does nothing to capture the 'soul' of the car or any of it's abilities - I doubt you would have any clue as to how to enjoy it if either RX-8 was given to you free. Winning makes some good points, but I think you need a Neon SRT-4 for under $20k and 0-60 in under 6 secs without any mods.

Wing

Hmmm, I wonder why they even bother building cars for $50K + heck if they don't do 0-60 in under 3 secs what's the point?

red_base 95

Well..he offered up his opinion and was prepared to get blasted for it. Good for him.

The only reason Mazda offered this car with an auto tranny was so they would not alienate potential buyers who love the car, but would not want the manual transmission. I know one person in particular who cannot drive a manual transmission due to health issues, but loves the concept/style of the car and is seriously considering getting the 8. If no manual option was available, he would not be able to get the car.

You almost always compromise performance when choosing a car equipped with the auto, and that compromise is very significant in the 8. I think that is the point the original poster is trying to make. Doesn't mean you can't have fun with it.

dcfc3s

Part of the problem is rotaries and automatic transmissions don't work well together - the nature of the engine and the low torque just doesn't do well.

Mazda put an automatic in the '8 for the same reason they did in the '7 - to sell cars.

IMHO the saddest thing I've ever driven is an automatic 3rd gen RX-7 - that's just awful. Takes all the spirit out of the car. But, the 3rd gen was basically a race car with a license plate on the rear bumper - it's a whole different beast that the 8. The automatic is acceptable, at least, on the 8, but not optimal.

Dale

Prowla

As some has stated, the RX-8 needs to reach out to a larger general audience. By allowing it in both AT and MT, it gives people more options. For someone like my mother, who is a grandmother to my niece and nephew. She wanted a sporty car and had considered the Miata at one time. But the things that held her back are the fact that it's both a convertible and only a two-seater. The RX-8 offers her everything that she wants. A sporty car that has enough room to handle both her grandkids and still have room for one more person. She also prefers the AT version even though she can also drive stick too. So, it's not always about the performance of the car, but rather the fun factor that comes with it. People will spend the extra money to get that sports car look and feel rather than to be driving around in a plain jane sedan. I've test driven a 6 and it's not impressive as far as speed goes, but that's because it wasn't intended for it. It's also most certainly clear that with the RX-8 having less HP with the Auto tranny, it was meant to have a blast driving. Try if you will, driving both cars again through some corners and you'll see that more of the time was spent in the handling characteristics than straight line accel.

morganrogers

If I was a sales rep pounding up and down the motorway on a daily basis carrying carpet samples , then I guess the 6 is a fine car....

I want a little more from the RX8 however....

DonG35Miata

Actually, the first generation RX-7 with an automatic was not too bad at all. Car and Driver admitted to being big fans of it- I think I still have the back issues of the magazines. (I have every copy of Car and Driver that featured the 1st RX-7... ) They said that when it was available, a line from the keyboard formed all the way down the hall.

My 1981 RX-7 was an automatic. Got it in college- I paid my way through, so my dad offered to buy me a car (up to $5,000) if I paid for the insurance. I looked for eight weeks for a nice five-speed RX-7, and they were all beat to hell. We were sick of looking and he was ready to tell me to forget it... then we came across what turned out to be my RX-7. It was priced at $4,995 at a Volvo dealer, and it was in beautiful shape. Drove great, and he said, "Do you want it?" I thought for a moment... I really wanted a five speed. But what was more important... going fast or impressing girls? "Impressing girls" I thought. A 1981 RX-7 in primo shape was QUITE a ride for a college student in 1986. Besides, I will get to 60 just a second behind the five-speed. So, I got it, and it provided me with several years of trouble-free fun.

I still miss that car (sniff). I will scan a picture or two and post them later. What is funny is the only cars I have ever owned that still give me the warm fuzzies are my old RX-7 and my current Miata. Mazda has a way with sports cars...

That said, I have to comment on another thread. Someone posted saying, "G35 sedan automatic or RX-8 automatic?" Everyone is like, "Get the RX-8!" C'MON, people! I can see a comparison between the six-speed RX-8 and the G35 coupe or G35 sedan... but the auto version of the car, no way. Maybe I am biased as a G35 sedan owner... but all humans have biases, so it is not anything to apologize for. But the G35 sedan has the room of a 5-series BMW at beneath the price of a 3-series, with very strong straight-line performance and very capable handling. True, the interior bits need a little work, but supposedly they will be upgraded next year. But still, I can't see any serious driving enthusiast preferring a very slow RX-8 automatic to a capable and effortlessly fast G35 sports sedan.

DonG35Miata

By the way... the insurance was $1,600 a year, quite a chunk of change in 1986! And I had no accidents or tickets! The penalty of being 19 years old. I worked two jobs every single day all summer to pay that insurance... and it was worth it. Yes, I am a car nut!

Gord96BRG

It's quite apparent that you believe performance is all in a straight line. As someone else commented, did you even try to push on any corners, either slow or fast ones?

The RX-8 is a sports car - handling is a huge part of that equation, considering just acceleration is missing 80% of the picture. A Miata is far sportier than your Mazda6, but it's slower. That's not what it's about, but I'd bet that you believe your 6s is sportier because it's faster in a straight line. You're obviously entitled to your own beliefs and opinions, but you're missing out on a large part of the fun of owning a sporty car. (PS - FWD doesn't cut it against RWD).

Want performance vs. price? Then you bought the wrong car. The Altima 3.5SE and Accord will blow the doors off a Mazda6s in the 0-60 and 1/4 mile stakes. It's pretty funny that you place such a premium on acceleration, when that's not the strong point of the Mazda6 at all. The differentiating factor, what makes the 6 stand out from the FWD family sedan crowd, is it's excellent handling/ride balance. Handling, as in going around corners.

It's too bad that you need to justify your own purchase by denigrating another car using such limited, narrowly focused criteria.

PS - Mazda used the lower power engine in the auto RX-8 because none of their current transmissions can handle the 9000 redline of the high power Renesis engine. By the 2006 model year, the RX-8 will have two new transmissions available - a 5 speed auto with the full high power engine, 9K redline and all, and a 6 speed SMT with the high power engine. As before, the forte of the RX-8 will still be great sports car handling with room for 4 people, no matter which version of the engine or transmission is under the hood.

Regards,
Gordon

IIIseries

I guess with the 6 forums being down, this dude has nothing but time to waste, and apparently way too much of it.

What gets me is how a fellow 6 owner could diss any car's speed, when our cars arent exactly known for it in the sedan class. We fare a lot better with the 5 speed, but even manually equipped, the Accord and Altima can spank us. It's all good though, because we can easily return the favor should the road get twisty, but still.......

Bottom line, Mazda clearly isnt going for the fastest in class with either the 8 or the 6. They're going for class-leading style and handling prowess, and doing a good job if you ask me.

DonG35Miata

Hmmm... this thread is getting interesting. Gordon makes a lot of good points.

Maybe it should all boil down to one thing, when comparing sports/sporty cars: what is the most fun to drive? My Miata is hardly a high-performance machine, but of all vehicles I have ever driven, it is still the fun-to-drive champ. The Mini Cooper S is a close second behind the Miata. In terms of pure FTD for me, lagging behind these two are the Boxster, 300ZX Twin Turbo, 350Z, Ferrari 308 GTSi Quattrovalvole, BMW Z4, Mercedes SLK, 996 series 911 Carerra, prior air-cooled 911... all cars I have driven. I have yet to see a correlation between price and FTD factor, but this is probably because I have not gotten in the seat of a 360 Modena yet- nor am I likely to in the near future, LOL. However, C&D did say in their comparison test that the Miata will give you the same grin as a supercar... I'll still take the Modena!

I have never driven an auto RX-8 or a Mazda 6 V6 5-speed sport... but based on my knowledge of the market and the two cars, it would be my guess that the 6, so equipped, would offer a more fun, more involved driving experience than an RX-8 automatic. Part of this would be the involvement of the five-speed, part of it would be the power.

RWD is better than FWD, but there are plenty of very capable FWD cars, and we don't drive at the limit all the time. And as Gordon said, the Mazda 6 is a good handler.

javahut

By "6 speed SMT", do you mean Sequential Manual Transmission? Man, that's what I've been waiting for! When I first saw the RX-Evolve, I was so hoping the sequential shifting was going to make it to production. I was more than a little disappointed it didn't. The full power 8 with sequential manual 6 speed would be heaven! I hope Mazda does it!

kittychester

Actually in today's market $25k, $30K loaded is inexpensive, esp for a sportcar with the performance of the RX8. I saw the Mazda 6 at the car show- its no comparison.

blizz81

I agree with many on this thread. I think it's funny for someone with a 6s to be commenting on straight-line speed - the Duratec isn't the worlds most potent V6.

To me the most important numbers/specs on the 8 to consider are:

50/50, 3000lbs, ~0.91g, $28k, rwd, 9k red/rotary smoothness and revability in general, and the necessary one, 6-spd. I haven't driven a 6s and in the back of my mind I'm still considering it if I have to go a little more value when I make a purchase hopefully next year, but while it sounds somewhat agile in its class, a tad-chunkier fwd sedan with a not-so-potent V6 is not going to capture the nimble, tossable spirit the 8 harbors. I'm willing to take comparitive test drives but I doubt even a 350Z would at $28k, probably not even at the track edition.

Genom

Everybody has their own idea of whats ideal or not I guess. I was just about to buy a 6s when I found out about the RX-8 myself. And I had decided on the 6s over all the other cars in that price range for one reason. FTD as stated before. It didnt have the best speed off the line, but I care for a car that feels good all the time over a straight line rocket anyday. Thats why I got a RX-8 over a EVO. I had heard about the EVO and went to look at one. Just the apearance put me off, and when I got in, it felt like I was testing that Neon SRT4 all over again. Chintzy interior, but when you lay the hammer down, it goes. In a straight line. Anything else and it was substandard to say the least.

The RX-8 isnt as fast off the line. But gawd damn does that sucker feel good to me. The whole time I was test driving it I had to remind myself that it was a car and not a mini-jet it felt so good. The same exact reason I had prefered a 6s when looking in the lower price range.

Now bitching about a automatic rotary for not being a sprinter off the light, well, hell, what did you think it was going to do? Bake cookies? And comparing the cars for that alone is very flawed IMO. Just look at the interiors. The seating quality. The sound of it all. Hell, just compare the quality and look of the center consoles. I gladly waited the 4 months and paid the extra 4K to go from a loaded 6s to a 6 speed MT Sport RX-8.

See you at the stop sign bubba.

Efini 8

hello!? duh its gunna be slow, its automatic! However this is not always the case. Some drag cars use automatic trans and are faster than manual transmission cars because less power loss during shifting with a torque converter rather than a clutch which cuts power when disengaged. I think the 6 is a great looking car, and raced it at mazda rev it up and it was fun to drive but it really didnt seem fast at all (maybe cuz it was automatic?). still I think you are comparing apples to oranges, the mazda 6 is a v6, while the rx-8 is a rotary engine. so that said, I think spending $35k on the rx8 was a reasonable price for what you get considering the other alternative vehicles that can be purchased with that amount.

Racer X-8

"...that's not the strong point of the Mazda6 at all. The differentiating factor, what makes the 6 stand out from the FWD family sedan crowd, is it's excellent handling/ride balance. Handling, as in going around corners..."

Thanks. I was wondering just what the heck was the strong point of the Mazda6. I remember those commercials now. Yeah yeah, the 6 skidding & sliding around in the dirt. Very dramatic.

I'll tell you how I came to buy my RX-8. I went online to check out info on the 6, and there it was, the 8. After playing online for quite a while, I decided to at least go & check out the 6 at the dealer.

I walked knowing the 6 was not what I was thinking it might be.
I walked into my salesman's office to start the ball rolling on pre-ordering an 8. And I didn't look back. See, I fooled myself into thinking that the new 6 was gonna use a lot of what made the MX-6 a fun to drive car, and go from there. It's not. It sits way too high, like a Ford Taurus or something. The MX-6 is even lower than the RX-8. It's about like the RX-7 in height. That center console looks so cheaply ugly to me, that really honestly killed the rest of my interest in the 6.

The RX-8 feels a lot like my MX-6 when sitting inside. It's really amazing to me how Mazda can take a tight cockpit & make it feel like you still have more than enough room for comfort. I drive my MX-6 to work 38 miles one-way, Monday-Friday. I never get tired of driving it! The sucker is not muscular by any stretch, but its fun to drive. I earn my respect on the off ramps if not anywhere else. :D The car is over 10 years old & over 180,000 miles & it will still be my daily driver while my 8 slumbers in her beauty, in the garage.

OK, I'm getting off the MX-6 / RX-8 comparison cuz I just know I'm gonna get flamed, even by my buddies here. Rightfully so if they do, but only if I would not say that the RX-8 is the car that takes the successful cues of the MX-6 and the RX-7, then leaves at least the MX-6 way-in-the-dust.

I'm gonna stop, cuz I could go on for quite a while here. Anyway, to compare the Mazda6 to the RX-8 is such a joke.

wakeech

...this is exactly what i've expected to hear from Joe American though. he's not the first, nor will he be the last.

their loss, thank god (as it could mean my gain, many years from now)