shkeller55

Don:

I've read that Volkswagen made the GTI's ride softer in recent years to please the average American, but they took all the fun out of it. I think there's an R32 (or similar name) version of the GTI coming this fall that is supposed to be a great car though. Can't remember where I read about it - maybe in European Car. I know they're going to a new body style for the Golf in the next 2-3 years. Maybe they'll bring back the handling in all models then.

Let us know how you like the base Cooper.

chikai

Hey Don,

I noticed that you were located in Pittsburgh, PA. Which dealership did you go to do the test drive? I've been to Don Allen in the Shadyside area about three times now, and each time they said they would call me. No calls yet.

Kinda on-topic, I went to P&W to test drive the Cooper S with my lady a couple of weeks ago. She was interested in purchasing one, but didn't know how to drive stick so I drove. I took it through Shenley Park the day before the Vintage Grand Prix, and drove at about 6/10s (the park was crowded w/ ppl). At one point when I was climbing a hill I had the accelerator fully depressed and the Cooper S struggled to move any faster. At that point, the supercharger whine lost its impressiveness.

I also found the manual transmission somewhat difficult to work with. It seemed like no matter how careful I was I could not find the perfect lift off point.

Either way, the lady loved it. She's 5' 2" and has a petite asian figure, so the Cooper was perfect for her size. Plus we were getting all sorts of attention driving a bling-ing yellow Cooper with white strips. To each his/her own...

DonG35Miata

Tomsic Mazda, 412-561-7499, ask for Joe Bianchi, say I sent you. Nice guy, great people, no games. If you hurry "my" car may still be available.

The RX-8 was SO soft, the nose bobbed and weaved so much, I have to wonder if something was wrong with it. I may go back next spring and try it again.

Didn't drive the base Cooper today. Good things come to those who wait, and I am going to wait before getting into anything with a thrid car. I love cars, my biggest passion, but I have two nice ones and I am going to relax and enjoy them for a while. I may stop in and test a Cooper just for grins, but a little more time to let MINI get theremaining bugs out is probably a good thing.

I am going for the new computer. Just got back from lunch, there is an Apple 23" HD studio display sitting behind me... the dual processor G5 will be here before too long. Plus, my accountant can quicky amortize and write this stuff off on my taxes as I am a pro photographer and a writer! :-)

Rich

Good luck with the G35c and Miata Don! As has been mentioned before, cars are a pretty personal decision, and not everyone will agree.

At the same time, I have to admit that with how critical (in a polite and very well spoken way) you were about the RX-8 before it came out I'm still pretty shocked you even ordered one. I always got the impression that you knew long beforehand that you weren't going to like it. I had pegged the odds of you actually buying at less than 5%, based on all the criticism.

Anyway, even though I didn't really agree with you on most of your comments about the RX-8, I always enjoyed the way you articulated them. Stick around! btw, what's your username on the Miata forum? I'm Iceburn over there (Rich was taken).

DonG35Miata

Actually, I have a G35 sedan, not a coupe.

I may have been critical of the RX-8 before the release, but reading and discussing, and driving are different things. After the positive reviews in the media, and seeing one in the auto show, I started thinking I would like the car, so I ordered one. (I was first on my dealer's list in 1999, as a long-time rotary fan.) When I sat in one at the dealership two weeks ago, I loved it... the styling, the interior, everything. Just great.

Some of my prior criticism, such as low-end torque, turned out to be for naught- I thought the torque was fine, and absolutely loved the powertrain. It is the handling and steering feel that did not impress me. Steering felt overboosted, and whenever I would bend it around a turn, even at 7 MPH in the dealer lot, the nose would sway unduly. When going fast, it cornered and held the line beautifully, but I did not like the nose yaw at all- it was almost like a boat and wanted to keep going in the same direction before I entered the turn. And as I said, the steering was lifeless and devoid of feeling. My humble G35 sedan felt better over the roads I drove, in both the body sway and the steering feel. On the way back to the dealership, I knew if I had an RX-8, it would be my third choice if I was going out for a joyride. Not much reason to buy one then.

Personal tastes aside, I chat enough with you guys that I am confident you know what you are talking about, and most of you probably have similar thoughts about me. When I read the comments about the RX-8, I shake my head and wonder if it is really the same car! I am starting to think the RX-8 I drove may have had a problem of some sort, or the dealer made a mistake when prepping it. I may go drive another one next spring at a different dealership. That powertrain is one of the greatest things going in the automotive world. Just wish they would put it in a single purpose-built sports car, or a Miata! Hey, it would be awesome in a more "upright" traditional sports sedan! But that may take away from the RX-8.

santino

Don

sorry for going off topic...but get the G5 Power Mac! i am drooling over that too.

anyways, sorry to hear that the 8 did not wow you over. "to each his own" as they say. if you are looking into the Cooper S, why not the Works Mini Cooper? it is about the same price as the 8. the only bad part about that car is the price; everything else seems to be great about it.

santino

stownz

Hey Don, I though about getting the Cooper S as well, but the styling just wasn't for me. I could care less about the performance because both were more than adequate for me, I just thought the RX8 was more sleek looking, even though the thirst for gas is much more in the RX. Congrats, hope you post PX's.

By the way, nice dog, my friend has one that looks exactly the same. They could be a little fiesty when left alone, but maybe its because the owner spoils him.

DonG35Miata

Yeah, Gabby is way spoiled! But she deserves it.

Just test drove the regular Cooper. A much more pleasant drive than the S, lighter on its feet. Throttle response is flaccid, though. It is deceptively quick. Acceleration FEELS snail-like, then you look at the speedo and you are going 50mph.

I'm standing pat with my current two vehicles. Not too long for the RX-7, right? :D

Santino, I am getting the DP G5 PowerMac. Yesterday I picked up the 23" HD Apple Studio Display. It is amazing, especially when you use a digital SLR camera. And like I said, it gets depreciated on my taxes...

I'll still be here to chat! This is the best web forum and best bunch of guys I have run across.

grogiefrog

I can understand about not getting the RX-8. Depends on what works for you.

By the time that I can buy one, I need to make the decision on a RX-8 or something else. I started with 2 RX-7's, and went to two Accords. In a year it will be time to buy another car. If I were to get another sedan, I like the Mazda 6 more the the new Accords. But, a truck would be nice to have as well.

A car is such a big decision... and you live with it until it's paid off!

Since it was brought up... I work in corporate America... very unfriendly to Macs. Being in the Marketing/Art department, we need Macs. Our PC's are cheap, crash a lot, and IT doesn't support our graphics software anyway. Over the last month, I fought with IT and finally won. They ordered us last week three new dual G4's with 20" Apple flat panel displays. We couldn't wait for the G5... Besides, the G4's will come off lease in two years and we can buy new ones.

Jon Brittan

Where was he being rude?
Just stating his opinion as you did of the RX8, surely it all boils down to the same thing?

The thing is, that actually the Cooper S is a heap of junk, in the UK at least it's presently got the record for the largest number of first year faults of any car produced in the last five years.
He's also right about it being over-priced compared to the other cars that are available.


Brock Yates and Bobby Rahal both have Cooper S's? Wow, well that must mean they're truly brilliant then?
I've worked in the car review industry, on these message boards we all talk about how personal preference plays a major part in car choice, well let me tell you it's even more of a factor in the review world. There's no such thing as an unbiased review, one way or another it either boils down to the independent reviewer already liking or disliking a car before they even start, or the magazine/tv reviewer being told what to like relative to the manufacturers advertising payments, that's just how it is.
Ever thought maybe those guys were given the cars? A lot of manufacturers do it, it looks great to have "respected" reviewers driving their cars and it doesn't cost them much.



Anyway, as we've already said, car preference is subjective, he stated an opinion, you stated an opinion and now I've stated an opinion, it doesn't make any of us right or wrong it just says what we do or don't like.

DonG35Miata

I could have called the RX-8 a heap of junk, criticized everyone who liked it, and used some unflattering, colorful language to describe it, etc... but I didn't. I described what I thought about it, and that I did not think it was for me. I think it is more a choice of words issue than anything.

FYI Bobby Rahal is a race car driver, not a reviewer... and I am a member of the media myself, so I know all about bias. All humans have it, no getting around it. I went in expecting to be disappointed with the RX-8's low-end power, and thrilled with the steering feel and handling. The converse was true- I loved the powertrain and didn't care for the steering feel or body roll. So, I like to think I went into it with an open mind.

I know the MINI has some issues, but as vehicle #3 if I get one and it has a few probs, it won't be a big deal and I will sell it before the warranty is up. The S IS a piece of junk; I have investigated that further and you are right- the drivetrain has a lot of issues. If I get a MINI it will be a base Cooper, mostly as an around-town five-speed machine for when the weather is bad, winter driving, and as a hatchback for hauling stuff. But for now, as I said, I am staying where I am. Maybe if Mazda gets rid of the RX-8's nausea-inducing boatlike body roll and gives the steering more feel than a 1970s American land yacht I will even consider it again. (See what I mean? Choice of words- you can be diplomatic, or you can use words that insult peoples' tastes and get a rise out of people. I, for one, and for diplomacy.)

revhappy

If you can live with the boy-racer looks (which you will forget all about when you get behind the wheel), the EVO would give you tons of torque, steering feel, all weather capability and handling that is on rails (with very little body roll). I'm not the stereotypical EVO owner (i.e. professional conservative white collar job), but the car is nearly perfect for me.

Efini 8

today I test drove the rx-8 and the lancer evo 8 back to back. I would have to say hands down that the rx-8 is definately more fun and feels faster to me than the evo8. I kept burning out because I am not used to such power! The rx-8 was a lot of fun to drive plus its more comfortable. I am not a racer or anything but I could really feel the power behind the rx8 in the transmission. It felt more solid. The evo8 is damn fast, but for some reason it was easier to drive, but the transmission felt cheap and toy like. The sales guy even redlined the evo8 and it does snap ur head back into the chair, but its all performance and definately a nice car, just not for the price.

OmegaBob

Macs

Racer X-8

Special! Columbia's Mitsi on Greystone Blvd. has some 10 or more 2003 EVO VIII's going for MSRP! Woopie! Come'n'get'em while they're hot! Before they're not... Ask for Steven & tell him Bill sent you! Ha! Woo hoo!

santino

OmegaBob,

nice one on the Mac video.
:D

santino

DonG35Miata

From the look of it now, my taking delivery of the RX-8 was doomed before I even test drove it. If I would have loved it, I planned on buying, no question... but the dyno results came out between my test drive and they day I had planned for delivery, August 1. Even had I loved the car, the dyno results are too big of a question mark for me to buy an RX-8. I could see myself running back and forth to the dealer to try and get the problem fixed... IF it is ever fixed. They never found the missing horsepower in the Miata, one reason I am pessimistic they will do so in the RX-8. With only 220hp, I think the car is tremendously overpriced, and without the performance rounding out the equation, it's a tight 2+2 with poor fuel economy.

I took my preorder coffee set to the dealer on Saturday when I went to get my deposit back. "My" RX-8 was sitting outside, ready to be delivered, just as my Miata was when I picked it up. My salesman pointed me to the new owner, doing paperwork, and I went over, introduced myself, explained they sent me the stuff and I decided against the car, so I wanted the new owner to have it. He took it and offered a lukewarm "thank you", not friendly at all, almost to the point of being rude or snobbish. He did not look like a performance enthusiast; I doubt he will ever know the car is missing the power unless Mazda notifies him.

I was going to bring the preorder hardcover book to his salesman this week so he could pass it along to the new owner as well, but after meeting him, I changed my mind. Just got $37.50 for it on ebay... Already got the money out with my Paypal Visa debit card. I will use it to buy lunch and give my G35 a nice tank of Union 76 premium!

If he was friendly, he would have got the book too...