DonG35Miata

We all know the RX-8 is going to be a great car. Some of us may prefer something a little different though... like Rich, would prefer a hardtop rotary sports car without a back seat. My personal dream is a "rotary roadster". It would be in between a Miata and Boxster in physical size, around 2,600 lbs, with a 250-280hp Renesis and the front interior of the RX-8. It would offer an unbeatable combination of the Miata's nimbleness and extremely high performance. Automobile Magazine's first idea for the RX-8 was much like the car I had in mind. Obviously, they were very wrong!

If I thought my rotary roadster was on the way, I'd hold out. If not, I'm likely to just get an RX-8 come springtime. I've ruled out the 350Z.

We have heard conjecture, but does anyone actually know what they will be doing, or have a good feel for what is going to happen? And most importantly, what would YOUR ideal rotary car be?

Sputnik

Even Mazda hasn't made a decision on which route they are going down future rotary cars. We have heard from enough people that it sounds like the next Miata will remain similar to what it currently is (simple, lightweight, 4 cylinder, daily-driving go-kart).

But that doesn't rule out the possibility of a convertible FE, kind of like what they did with the FC body in the latter years of that chassis.

I can't say I disagree with you, because I basically have the car that you're talking about in my turbo Miata, save for a little extra room that a slightly bigger car would provide.

---jps

mach

I actually think the RX-8 configuration is perfect for me at present. I currently own a BMW Z3... It's a great car, and great fun to drive. But, it's my only car. Such an all-out sports car is impractical for taking long trips in, and impossible for stuff such as moving large items or transporting more than one passenger.

So, if I'm just going to have one car, I'd like to have something that is a blast to drive, but doesn't require me to make so many sacrafices.

If I could afford to have two cars, I'd probably still want an RX-8, but also want a truck for hauling stuff around and going camping and whatnot. Trucks are too boring to want to drive all the time though.

fuz

What I want is a Lotus 340R with the rensis in it. :D That's what I call a deathtrap.

Hercules

AHHH MY CAR :D

I love that little roadster!

Jerome81

I'd personally like to see a RSX/GTI/Eclipse/Celica sized two door coupe with rotary engine and RWD. I don't know if it would be economically viable, but a detuned 200hp renesis and RWD would be EXACTLY what this segment needs. No competitors offer RWD, and the RENESIS is the super high revving engine that fits perfectly with these cars.

I really think Mazda would have a huge hit if they could do it. It would end up being king of every performance category, and would kill at autocrosses with its RWD layout.

A modern day RX-2 if you like. Those things, along with the old Datsuns are still being raced. Why? Because they're small, light, and RWD. They were the last of a breed, and thats why people still cherish those cars.

jonesin

My ideal rotarymobile would be an rx 8 convertible..... I want a nimble, fast, affordable vert with 4 seats. There is just nothing like this on the market. You either have to go slow sedan (read Sebring), bulky/muscle car (Mustang, Camaro) or Euro/more expensive (BMW, Audi A4, etc.) I hope Mazda is serious about offering a unique alternative w/ the 8, and I hope they'll include the vert option. I know there's been a vert discussion elsewhere, but just wanted to throw out my 2 cents... and besides, you asked.

D C

I think I will be quite satisfied with the RX-8 when it hits showrooms, the only thing that I would improve would be adding some horsepower. 250 is nothing to sneeze at, but 300+ would be very nice.

jay

your dreams just might come true
check out:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...hlight=2,mazda

Jerome81

That article is a year old. A lot has changed at Mazda in that time. No more Mark Fields (who I personally loved, he seemed to have the same ideals I do, such as that turbo is always possible, but lets look at other sources as well :D ). Now that is what I want to hear!!!

No more Phil Martens, I believe he is over at Primier Auto Group now as well.

Hopefully some of those things will come true, like my hot hatch I've been saying they need!!! However, I would bet my life savings the RX-8 will NEVER NEVER NEVER have a 4 cylinder engine. RX---Rotary Experiment. That means no cylinders. Period.

While I do think the 2.3L Turbo on the Mazda6 is a good choice, I'd prefer to see the Miata stay normally aspirated, but with more of a Honda i-VTEC flavor to it. I'd also prefer to see the RX-8 go 3-rotor if necessary, rather than turbo, which I don't think fits as well into true sports cars as it does in more mainstream cars. The turbo Protege is not a bad idea either.

I was extremely bummed to see Mark Fields go. I don't know how Lewis Booth feels on this stuff. Hopefully he will feel very much the same way.

Mazda is set, right now, to explode in a way we've never seen from them. I am so excited I want all these cars NOW.

Jerome81

I'll add one more. A more upscale Rotary Miata. A boxster S killer. A S2000 killer.

Leave the Miata be as it is. Light, simple, 4 cylinder. Inexpensive. That is the Miata, and it always should be.

What they need is to let the Miata focus on that, rather than trying to be that, and an entry Z3 at the same time (as it is right now).

Take that Miata architecture, give it a seriously different reskin, beef up what needs to be beefed up, throw in that rotary and call it something completely different. So while in essence it would be a "rotary Miata" it would still be a two seat convertible but would otherwise be its own car with its own mission.

Sputnik

Or call it a convertible RX7...

---jps

Jerome81

Thats a good idea

wakeech

yes, yes it is... in the form of a 3 rotor coupe?? even better :p

Speedbuggy

Call me crazy, but I think it's in Mazda's bet interest to go with the Renesis engine as a replacement for it's 4-cylinder in both the Miata and --here's where it sounds strange-- the Protege line. Here's why:

Miata: Of course, this one is obvious. The Renesis rotary is far more powerful, lighter, more reliable, and cheaper to build than any piston engine and would put the Miata into a new class of performance without significantly raising the price or damaging the handling characteristics. This one is a no-brainer.

Protege: As a front-drive car, the Protege suffers from what all front-drive cars do, a very front-heavy weight distribution and the accompanying reduction in handling capabilities. Mating the Renesis engine to a transaxle would require a redesigned transaxle, but other than that the car at base would change little, and would benefit from a vast boost in both performance and handling. Why spend so much money and effort with the Mazdaspeed version to get a paltry 30 more horsepower when by going with the rotary you can gain over 100 additional horsepower without the additional cost? The interest in both the sport compact car as a market niche and the specific interest in the Protege itself within that market make this combination a sure winner. And it would certainly make Nissan shut up about their 240-HP Altima.

Remember, what gets forgotten with rotary engines is that they are cheaper to build, period. They have a fraction of the number of moving parts, meaning they require less labor and machinery to make, as well as the sheer size difference which also reduces the materials cost to build them. Mazda can add value and selling points to already successful models while actually increasing the profit margins on the same vehicle MSRP. It's a win-win situation, if Mazda has the guts to capitalize on it. Rotary need not be a niche engine nor a flagship-only option. Mazda can one-up the competition by utilizing the advantages of rotary power in a number of applications, like the Miata and Protege, where light weight and high power output is a plus while torque requirments are not so high. They could only benefit.

Grimace

Welcome to the forum!

Anyhoo, I don't think a rotary engine in the Protege would go over well. Although I agree it'd be a hoot to drive, one of the main concerns of people who buy cars in this category (economy cars, albeit very good economy cars) is fuel economy, which isn't the rotary's strong suit. Perhaps you could do a 1 litre version, or a 1.3L renesis in seriously different tune, but I doubt it would be very practical.
This is assuming that you could even adapt the rotary for a FWD application!

Speedbuggy

I was under the impression that the Renesis design had solved the previous 13B's problems with both fuel economy and emissions? That's what I had read, anyhow. It would be interesting to see what the mpg comparisons are between the Renesis and the current 2.0 4-cyl, and how the inevitible reduction in curb weight would affect those numbers in actual driving conditions. And of course the Renesis as seen in the RX-8 is tuned for maximum output, I would like to see what the numbers would be on one tuned with a balance between performance and fuel economy in mind. If nothing else, it would be a better option for an "all-out sport compact car" than the current Mazdaspeed Protege.

As to "can it be done?", I can't imagine why not. As I said, a specific transaxle would have to be designed, and considering the size of the Renesis I'd expect the best configuration would be to place the engine behind the transaxle unit, but I don't see why it couldn't be done. In fact, such a configuration would lend to better weight distribution, which is a prime reason for wanting the rotary in the first place.

As I said, I think it's an option Mazda should consider, especially in the higher-end sporty versions of the car. And aren't those what's really selling? If Mazda is worried about the low-end market, they should bring back the GLC and compete with Hyundai and Kia on their turf. If on the other hand they are serious about building a reputation for "zoom", then they should put their money where their mouth is and give their Protege some punch.

Thanx for the welcome, and look forward to some interesting discussions!

B-Nez

Consider me ignorant on this point, but why would the engine have to be behind the transaxle? I'm guessing they'd have to turn it sideways to mate to a FWD tranny, but don't know about the location in relation to it.

B-Nez

Also, I see one stopping point with outfitting all models with Renesis. Mazda will have a hard enough time convincing non-rotor heads to buy a rotary sport car (based on bad reputation of FD). Proliferating it to all Mazdas might put a huge dent in sales. Not to say it could not be done. Look at how popular the RX-3's were. They were selling them off the truck.

Speedbuggy

Transverse mounting is done on modern piston engine cars to make the hood shorter, making for a smaller engine compartment. The engine in such a configuration is above the transaxle sorta with one drive axle shorter than the other because of the off-center location of the drive input from the motor. This is based on what I've seen from working on my (late, lamented) 1989 Geo Prizm.

The idea I had for the Renesis mounted behind the transaxle in a front-driven rotary-powered car was that considering the size and shape of the engine there's just no practical reason to turn it sideways. What would work far better IMO is to turn the engine -backwards-, with the engine output facing front and feeding into a transaxle mounted on the centerline of the car. This design would offer better weight distribution front-to-rear and better balance laterally.

Basically, transverse mounting with the engine atop the tranny is a way to make things more compact. It has it's drawbacks, to be certain. The already-tiny Renesis mounted behind a transaxle no bigger than it is gives you as compact a package without the problems and complications you have things off-center and sideways and such.

No, I'm not an engineer, nor even a mechanic. Just an idea guy that likes to think I'm well-read. I hope I'm not too far off-target.

Speedbuggy

Oh, I'd never suggest such a move all at once. Introducing the RX-8 and allowing it to develop a reputation is a good move for Mazda, both strategically and economically. Once the Renesis has proven itself, however, Mazda will be able to capitalize on it's strengths in other models like the Miata and Protege. Making rotary power available as an option on already high-selling models would broaden the potential markets for those models, as well as offering competitive selling points over other vehicles in their class.

The rotary motor is more than just a cool high-performance option. It's a way to offer more to the consumer at less cost to the manufacturer. And that is a win-win situation.

Spining Ncnratr

I got a truck thats not boring believe me its far from boring and can still haul stuff.:D :D

Spining Ncnratr

What I like to see is the quad rotary from the LeMans winning
787 prototype. with the same power and car for street use can you say double trouble

Ford GT formor GT40
And Mazda 787 awsome is the only thing I can say.

RacerX7FB

If the RX-8 sells like the Mazda 6 has been selling in Europe, then we should just wait for the new RX-7 to follow