ibfubar2000

it all depends on what they signed when they made the deposit. if they signed something saying non-refundable then it is non-refundable. most dealers do this all the time. they know ho the system works. just like mark-up, the dealer can mark up as much as they want, it is all legal. there is nothing saying they have to charge MSRP!

Sandberglar

Yeah akrx8 I know what you mean about the wrx's being everywhere in ak. I saw more wrx's in ak then down here in phoenix which has so much more people.

DonG35Miata

This also depends on the state. In Pennsylvania, it is illegal for dealers to make deposits non-refundable. If they don't deliver a car to you, they can't keep your money. Two F&I managers told me this.

budaman

OK Gang

You don't have to pay over sticker for a car! There are too many reputable dealers out there that won't sacrifice long term goals for short term gain. We won't do it. If it were me I'd find a dealer and get an airline ticket. $300 or $400 is better than 2 or 3K.

RobDickinson

Once again I'm glad i live in UK (aka Rip off Britain).

No main dealer marks up new cars. At all ever. Well most are pre-marked up to leave some bargaining room for the dealers (and their profit margin) but what isnt?

2nd hand cars do sometimes go for more than new depending on the market, but rarely does that continue past the first few months.

Wonder how much the new BMW M3 CSI will go for £59,000 new, all Uk's 500 already well sold. Thats $100k for a 3 series BMW lol...

Oh and the new SLK, 2 year wait AT least. And no one has even seen it yet.

ACRX8

Several dealers in my area still have RX-8's not taken from the 1st, 2nd, & 3rd allocations. Why would anyone pay more than MSRP. The preorders did not sell out.

JRobUSC

They'll pay over sticker because that's what the market will bear. Demand for RX-8s is going to skyrocket when they hit showrooms, simple fact. There'll be a whole lot more buyers when they arrive than there are now, and demand is going to far outweigh supply. It won't matter if the preorders didn't sell out, a lot of people are waiting for the car to arrive before making a decision (effectively costing them money if they decide to buy at that time), and when all those people want the car at the same time and dealers only have one or two in, they'll pay market value, just like people did for every other new "hot" car that has come out recently.

RX-Nut

Yup.. sadly, regardless if you think paying over MSRP is stupid or not, it's supply and demand at it's most basic level.

RotaryStalker

It also depends on the individual. I've never paid msrp for a vehicle. After purchasing a loaded 96' 4-Runner (new model, out one week) for 1k over invoice my buddy liked it so much he went to the same dealership, same saleswoman, bought a 4-Runner not nearly as loaded as mine for several thousand more. I actually walked out of the dealership when they didn't like my offer and before I reached my car they were rushing out the door telling me to come back.

My Mom seems to take pride in paying through the nose for a vehicle. She seems to walk in to a dealership with the idea that she doesn't want to portray to these people that she cares about price. Yes, I know it's dumb. Dealerships love her so much.

So, two people walking in to buy a Rx-8 around December could easily pay substantially different prices. If you have the desire, do the research, don't mind a couple of hour drive to get the car, take one on the lot, etc., IMO you'll be able to find a Rx-8 for msrp, you just have to do your homework.

RotaryStalker

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

I am already on my second dealer due to this crap....
I ordered from my local dealer, (Jarman Mazda, Edmonton, let's name names!) in March'02 - I figured a thousand dollar deposit and a years wait might get me a fair deal, I even asked the guy "I realise that nobody knows the price yet, but am I locked into MSRP?" I was not looking for a discount, just full list. (Just!...did I really say that? Yes.) He confirmed that the only extras would be delivery and PDI for a max of $800.
But Noooooo, I get a phone call two days after the price is released, telling me that if I come down to the dealership I can sign up for my pre-order at only 2400 dollars over list!
They can bite my shiny metal ***!
I had to go an hour further, but got a signed deal locked in at list.
My new dealer did whine about the lack of profit in it for him, that "they could have priced it five thousand higher, it would still sell, and make me a decent profit" etc.
While we are naming names, the "good-guy" in this is Autoworld, in Leduc, Alberta.
S

JRobUSC

RotaryStalker, you might be able to find one in December for MSRP, but you're right -- it's going to have to be an in stock unit. Unless you are looking for an automatic (which I have a feeling dealers will have a few extra of) I think you'll have a tough time finding many in stock units come December. All the masses of people who are waiting to make up their minds are going to get assed out when they start hitting showrooms, and they're going to pony up and deposit on the ones coming in later. After that the chances of getting exactly what you want, if you can find anything at all, are slim and none (and slim just left town). You might save a few dollars but for the next five years you're going to have a car that isn't what you wanted. And as much as dealers might not want to lose a sale, when you walk out over not getting a discount there'll be someone walking in behind you to take your place. Dealers are in the business of doing two things: making money, and cultivating relationships. You might be pissed over no discount, but the guy behind you will be thrilled just to have the car, markup or not, and as far as dealers are concerned those are the customers the dealer would rather have anyway. That guy is a lot more likely to love that dealership for getting him the car of his dreams, and thus buy from them again and again, then the guy who nickel and dimes his way through the sale. If the dealership has to choose which of those two customers they want to form a long term relationship with, who do you think it will be?

RotaryStalker

While I said I've never paid msrp for a car before, I would pay msrp for a Rx-8 depending on the time I bought one.

When the FD first came out dealerships were doing the same thing. I simply waited until the end of the year (Dec) and paid 4.5k less then msrp. It was exactly the car I wanted as well.

Look at the 350Z now. I saw at least 10 at my local dealership. Some dealerships still charge over msrp for them but I'm quite certain I could walk in and get one for msrp from Nissan here. The Z is a recently released hot car. Why are there so many to choose from now at my local Nissan?

IMO the Rx-8 will hit the market in the same sort of manner as the 350Z in which case they'll be 10 to choose from 6 months from now.

I'm not gambling on this happening. We're getting a Volvo XC-90 before the SUV loophole is closed. It's a brand new hot vehicle but we're only paying msrp for one ordered exactly how we want.

RotaryStalker

brothervoodoo

When the 8's start showing up and advertising kicks in, there's going to be a period of short-squeeze. If the demand is there dealers are going to mark-up and not bother with the guys trying to cut the best deal, because there's going to be a guy right behind him willing to pay more. How long this 'short-squeeze' period will last is anybody's guess. But yes if you wait long enough (insert your time period here) you will be able to get invoice or a little above on any car.

In general, anybody that pre-ordered more or less got MSRP and will have their cars in a matter of 3-9 weeks. Anybody now wanting to buy, depending on the circumstances, may have the realization that buying at MSRP will not be possible in the foreseeable future..

RotaryStalker

My local dealership has stated they won't sell the Rx-8 above msrp. It will be interesting to see if they do.

Actually just called them again and was told no matter how early in production they will be sold for "straight sticker, no markup". Now that's the 4th sales rep I've spoken to in 3 months about the Rx-8 and been told the same thing about markup every time. I will be happy to let the forum know how fast they move and how hard it is to buy one there.

Their first shipment is in July. Out of 24 coming in three months 7 have deposits on them. I was also told that they (the dealership) expects supply to almost keep up with demand.

btw. For comparison a dealership in the next town only has one coming in July and it's not a pre-order.

I expect the small window of hype and will last only 5-6 months. After that dies down the dealership that wants to move cars will sell them for msrp.

RotaryStalker

TybeeRX-8

I'm paying MSRP for mine and I don't really care. But my dealer said they could not charge over MSRP! Why, I don't know. I suppose it's just a local thing.

akrx8

i think it all has to do with supply and demand.up here they mark up all cars except for 1 ford dealer.they use this money in most cases to help someone get out of there trade in so they can play with the numbers.if you are buying and do not have a trade you can get at or below msrp unless its a high demand item.evo or sti you will never get at msrp atleast for severel months entill the "high" has worn off.up here these awd cars our high demand.on the 8 that is rwd is not nearly as popular because all the dumbass new people up here dont no how to drive in the winter.whats funny is that in the winter the most kind of cars that are in the ditch or wadded up are suv's,blazers,suburbans,larger trucks,etc.guarenteed you will be able to buy an 8 here for msrp and buy november if there are still any left you can proabably save 3000 over that.

Ahura

My dealer said that the owner does not believe in marking up cars over MSRP, which would reduce their potential customer base and loyalty. Therefore I'm getting my car at MSRP. Plus I think it helps that I'm not in a big city, so there isn't much demand. Plus it's a college town, so half of the adult population (students) can't afford a new car on their incomes.

It'd be interesting if my dealer offered Mitsubushis or Subarus to see if the Evo and STi would go for MSRP. Unfortunately, they only offer GM, Hyundai, Mazda, and Chrysler. I might swing by the Subaru and Mitsubushi dealers to see if any markups exist on these cars.

91vert

I would hope that most dealers are not going to try to pull this crap with those of us who have pre-ordered. My dealership said that they would not be marking up the first 3 allocations (mostly, if not all pre-orders) and after that they would be putting a hefty markup on them.

I see this happening in most big cities. They want to get a few out on the road to"advertise" to the public. Then when they get people coming into the dealership interested in buying one....they slam them with the marked up price. There will be some fools out there that want one bad enough and have the money to burn, that they might pay way above MSRP.

kencclark

My dealer (in the Los Angeles area) is pulling this crap of adding $2000 to the MSRP - five months after I placed the "pre-order" and put down a $500 deposit. I'm not even sure if they are required in California to refund my deposit if I cancel. They told me when I placed the order that the deposit was refundable, but I didn't get it in writting - and I'm having a hard time getting the dealership to return my calls...

DOOHHH!

brothervoodoo

Check my earlier post on this same thread. Man that is just wrong!!!!

I know most people did not sign a contract stating that the price would not change, but when you submitted your $500, there was something at least written down as to the price of the car, like MSRP, yes?

Either way, looking at it logically, you should be able to get your down payment back. If not then the dealer could raise the price of the car to anything he wanted and steal your deposit, see what I mean.

I would argue, state that the deposit was for the stated price of MSRP, that he has been holding your money "as good faith" for past 5 months, has cut you out from looking at other dealers in that time, and basically he is wasting your time!!! Get in there and be stern, that "he will sell you YOUR car". God that sounds so screwed, hope my dealer doesn't pull this sh*t.

I verbally and over the phone told my dealer "up-teen times" that he was not going to waste my time by changing the price after we discussed MSRP. He said that he would not, and I believed him, we shall see when the car comes in. I hope he doesn't change his tune or I will seriously need to 'verbally' rip him a new one.

RX-Nut

You see that's why my dealer keeps dodging the price question whenever I ask.. they keep saying, we cant give you a price because we dont know it yet...

CROCK of course.. the price is all over the Net.. Everyone knows the price of this car!

But see, this keeps their options open to the very end so they can GUAGE how much they can really GOUGE for this car.

Sly, but smart.

91vert

I was worried about this same thing. The paperwork that I got from the dealer when I ordered had the price listed at $31,100, which was the MSRP price, but it was not signed by them. It did not say anything about sticking to MSRP at delivery. I was told verbally over and over by the dealership that they were not selling them over MSRP for the pre-orders, but I had nothing in writing to confirm this. This worried me, so I demanded that they put something in writing, or I was going to visit the other dealer in town who WAS doing this for their pre-order customers.

I had something from them the next day....which was a little shady...but it was something. It looked like a post-it note that they attached to my original order form that said something like "Customer will pay MSRP at delivery + Accessories + documentation fee". It was signed by the sales manager. They photocopied this and gave it to me. I feel a little bit better about it now, even though the paperwork is still about half-assed. They could have pulled the post-it note off of the form and threw it away as soon as they photocopied it for all I know. At least I have something signed by the sales manager now....whether that means anything or not.??

I can assure you that if they even try to pull any crap like jacking the price with me when I go to take delivery I am walking out (after a good fight with all of them). I don't want to deal with somebody I cannot have at least an ounce of trust with. I'd rather wait another 6 months if I had to, then to be taken advantage of. I don't NEED the car that bad.

I really don't think that is going to happen though. They don't even have all of the pre-orders filled, so I doubt that they are going to be able to move the cars if they try to sell over MSRP. I really don't think the demand for the cars are as high as Mazda anticiptaed them to be at this point. I'll bet that will change once they get out on the road though and people start seeing them more.

wankel

I did not pre-order because I do not want to pay MRSP, unless I am forced to. To pre-order an RX-8 I was told by several dealers I would have to pay MSRP(at least) to place the order.

There are approximately 75 RX-8's coming to the St. Louis dealers in July (reportedly) without pre-order or reserved status- I've done my homework. I will be on the lots the first day to negotiate price. If all local dealers sell at MSRP(and will not negotiate), then I will pay MSRP.

Not everyone interested in the RX-8 will show up the first few days. (I hope) There should be plenty of vehicles intially available to negotiate price. Of course I could be completely wrong, and get stuck with paying MSRP or higher. Stay tuned!

ibfubar2000

so is everybody going to let us know how much they paid for thier rx8 afer thet buy it or if they dont buy it because of the price. i think it would be interesting to know.

IGOZMZM

Well when I buy mine, I'm going to try for a little better, but as it stands now I'm getting mine for MSRP - $200.

Note: the $200 off is because I b**ched about the $200 doc fee, and a previous experiance with a past purchase.