FWgraybeard

This is my first post. Please forgive the length. Many thanks to those who provided the information that allowed me to make an informed decision before buying my ’05 RX-8. This is my third rotary (’79 RX-7, ’87 RX-7 Turbo) so I’m coming from a position of some experience with the breed. I drove but never owned the 3rd generation car, which in retrospective could be considered either a good or a bad thing! This was my first Japanese car after 10 years with the Germans. My personal car before buying the 8 was an ’04 VW R32 Golf (since sold to my son, see avatar), so several comments posted here are relative to that vehicle. What follows is in no particular order.

Overall performance. This is good, but certainly not great. Anyone who buys this car for straight line performance is asking to be disappointed. The R32 has no problem pulling away from the 8 even at higher speeds. Please note that this is an observation, not a complaint.

Engine. As always, the rotary engine is very smooth, especially at higher revs. I’m glad to see that Mazda retained the high RPM warning buzzer. My son and I joke that the engine sounds like a swarm of angry bumblebees once the revs come up. Personally, I love the sound.

The lack of torque is a little disconcerting at first, but you adjust to it with more shifting. It was a little strange at first to open the throttle from low RPM in the higher gears and get little more than some additional noise. I’ve never seen a graph of the torque curve, but it must be pretty flat because the power increase seems very linear with RPM. The one exception is something over 6000 revs where you can sense a noticeable bump. I believe I read that this is where the tertiary intake port opens.

No flooding problems, but I’ve been careful to never shut off the engine cold. The one time I accidentally turned it off early, I realized what I had done and immediately restarted. There was no problem. It is irritating not be able to move the car a short distance without burning a fair amount of fuel, but it is always another opportunity to drive it! I am very leery of letting anyone else drive the car because of the flooding concerns.

Fuel economy. With my driving style and environment, I have typically averaged about midway between the EPA city and highway numbers, if anything a little closer to the highway. I have little stop and go traffic, and about 40% of the miles are on uncongested freeways. Shift points vary a lot depending on traffic conditions. Excluding the first tank of gas (18.1), mileage has ranged from a low of 19.2 to a high of 19.8 mpg. While I had hoped to do a little over 20, 19+ is not bad, and the consistency is amazing! A range of 0.6 mpg (less than 4%) over eight fill ups! Since I began keeping detailed records of mileage in the mid-90’s, consumption typically varies on the order of 8-10%, even when driving conditions and style are very similar. I have seen other members note that RX-8 mileage is not a strong function of how you drive, and I’m starting to believe it.

Gearbox. It’s a little notchy, but much better than when brand new. It’s taken a little getting used to not having a synchronizer on reverse gear. The linkage is good and the gearing okay. I’m sure some complain about the revs in 6th gear, but it provides a little no-shift passing urge if you’re going at a good clip.

Handling. This has taken some getting used to. This car can be provoked into low speed oversteer more easily than anything I have owned in the past (with the possible exception of a mid-70’s Porsche 911!). However, the oversteer is very easy to control and is entertaining once you know what to expect. With the stability control system engaged, it does not appear that it will get out of hand unless you do something really stupid. Mazda has done a good job in providing some understeer at higher speeds to prevent the car from being twitchy while still making it very responsive. It took a few weeks, but I’ve learned to trust the rear end. It’s not going anywhere unless I provoke it.

Steering. The electric steering assist felt very unnatural at first. After driving the 8 and our R32 back to back, it became apparent that while very small movements of the VW wheel resulted in direction changes, there was almost no force feedback for a degree or so of wheel movement. For me at least, this made it a little more stable and relaxing when traveling in a straight line. With the RX-8, I can’t feel any force dead zone, and it takes a little more effort to maintain your heading when just cruising along, especially when there is a lot of crosswind. It did not take very long to adjust, and the steering feels more natural now. I wonder if the differences are due to the design of the electric assist versus the typical hydraulic one.

Brakes. They work, very well. Enough said!

Interior. I like the instrument layout, the seats, and the little rear doors. I have carried an adult in the back seat, and other than being a little claustrophobic, they said the room and comfort were fine. To me, the small sacrifice in ultimate performance is worth having the convenience of a real 4 seater. The trunk opening is pretty bad. It’s very awkward to get much in there, although the space available is surprisingly good. I have the nav system and it’s great. A former fighter pilot friend says it’s the best interface he’s seen. The little joystick is easy to use, but I’m concerned that over time it may become sloppy or non-functional. Anyone know what has to be done when it fails?

General quality of construction. Everything seems well made and fits together as it should. Mazda did a good job of keeping the weight down. When you put a high gloss finish on the car, you can see a little bit of waviness in several of the body panels, but it can’t be felt. Without meaning to be insulting, as with most Japanese cars I have owned, the RX-8 is built to a price. This statement is based on lots of little things you notice after you buy the car. None are particularly noteworthy and none have much of an impact on function, but they are noticeable. And if I were involved in an accident, I’d much rather be in the R32 than the RX-8.

Conclusion. I’m very pleased with the car so far. The two primary reasons I purchased the car were price and the rotary engine. The engine lives up to my expectations, and the real world handling is much better than I had anticipated. My pre-purchase fuel economy fears have not occurred, and the car is a blast to drive. However, it’s my opinion that it’s not a car for everybody. You need to be willing to accept and live with a few unique characteristics. If you can’t or won’t, you may be disappointed. I’ve already seen that in a couple of other folks who own the car.

I appreciate the time that each of you spend to read this mini-novel. As always, the opinions expressed here are only mine.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

Great write-up graybeard.

Welcome to the club and I hope you continue to enjoy your RX-8 for a long long time.

chr1s

This post is clearly too well thought out and written to belong on these forums!



Gratz on the new car and welcome!

czr

iTrader: (3)

Welcome and great first post!

I agree with most of everything you said except you didn't state a reason on the following:

"And if I were involved in an accident, I’d much rather be in the R32 than the RX-8."

The difference in weight may have a difference in this, but I was just curious.

9291150

Nice review graybeard. And proof that many RX8 owners can be unbiased in their opinions.

Two things that surprised me.

To say that Jap cars are built to a price, I don't agree. The biggest savings for a manufacturer is platform sharing, i.e. the R32 is a shared platform, like the STI's, Evo's, Mustangs, all Nissans, etc. The RX8 is unique, with only some parts now being shared with the MX5. I'm willing to bet that the RX8 profit margin is likely the smallest of all mass produced cars at or below its price range. And as a recent 1.8 turbo Passat owner, don't bother asking me about my opinions on the quality of VW products...I can't swear here.

The second thing is I was surprised that your R32 walks away from it. In all tests I've seen of R32's, they are no better and while they produce slightly more HP, they also weigh much more. What I learned with the 8 is use that gearbox, just like a 600cc sport bike I used to own. I drove with a fellow 8 owner who wouldn't shift down into first going around 90 degree corners, and wonder why he couldn't catch up to some buddies. But I don't mean to imply that you can't drive, your review suggests otherwise. I just wouldn't have expected a R32 to be that quick, top speed yes but not in acceleration.

Welcome!

FWgraybeard

As to the question as why I'd rather be in an accident in the R32, it's not just the weight (which by the way is 3400 lbs for a Golf! An iron block V-6 and AWD is heavy). It's really due more to what I perceive as the structural integrity and solidity of the vehicle. Unfortunately, this is perception and can't be proven without either looking at the detail design and loads data or crunching the car. The first is unavailable and I'd rather avoid the second!

Thanks for the kind words. If it did not come across, I really do love the 8 and hope to have it many years.

Mugatu

iTrader: (1)

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

Spin9k

You argueably won't be in more trouble in the 8 than the R32, although I didn't find R32 results, nevertheless they don't get much better than the 8.

Enjoy your new ride! Nice review BTW, I'm sure you'll get more tuned in to the 8 over time.

Skythe

"Handling. This has taken some getting used to. This car can be provoked into low speed oversteer more easily than anything I have owned in the past (with the possible exception of a mid-70’s Porsche 911!). However, the oversteer is very easy to control and is entertaining once you know what to expect. With the stability control system engaged, it does not appear that it will get out of hand unless you do something really stupid. Mazda has done a good job in providing some understeer at higher speeds to prevent the car from being twitchy while still making it very responsive. It took a few weeks, but I’ve learned to trust the rear end. It’s not going anywhere unless I provoke it."


This is something that has taken me quite a while to get used to. It's kinda hard for me to explain this aspect of the car to people

FWgraybeard

Reply to 929150.

Good comments. As to acceleration, we're not talking large increments here. As everyone has seen in the road tests, the R32 and RX-8 are pretty close to 60 and the 1/4 mile. The VW is a lot easier to launch and is quicker in any kind of roll on acceleration from a moderate speed when you're in a higher gear (50% more torque!). I did notice the difference to 100 mph from one source was pretty significant (on the order of 2 seconds). However once the RX-8 had accumulated some miles, the times improved considerably. On public roads where dumping the clutch at high RPM to get the best times will get the wrong kind of attention, the R32 is superior. The 5-60 time is something Car and Driver always shows and is more indicative to me of the real world. That being said, these small differences in acceleration are not important to me personally. Both these cars are a blast to drive and plenty quick enough. Although I still feel a sense of loyalty to the VW (it was my own car for 18 months), I definitely prefer driving the Mazda. It's more fun day to day and more entertaining when you want it to be. Believe it or not, it's also cheaper to ensure.

As to built to a price, this is hard to define and would mean different things to different people. To nit pick a few things on the RX-8, if you put anything in the door pockets, it rattles like crazy. Putting a soft material on the bottom would eliminate this. Another example is how the windows seem loose in the track to me when they go up and down. Yeah, trivial stuff, but I could probably cite another 5 or 6 things along these lines. The older you get, the more you tend to notice stuuff like this and it becomes irritating. Please note my user name! Every time I get in a domestic car I just want to scream. As to profit margin, I don't see how Mazda makes any money on the car considering the price, but I'm not complaining.

As to your Passat, my wife just sold her 5 speed '02 1.8T at 90K miles. It required little in the way of repair, but maybe we were lucky. The R32 has never had anything break, but it's only just passed 30K miles. Sorry you had problems. I know my old VW Scirroco was a royal pain.

Again, I appreciate the comments. They were well thought out.

dazygirl415

Welcome Graybeard! I think you should come out to one of our meets....

DrDiaboloco

Cheap is right, relatively speaking. My RX-8 was a replacement for the '03 Mazda6 S that I'd owned for 2-1/2 years... I was concerned that I'd take a bath on the insurance, but was delighted to find that my rate only went up by $8 per month, or less than a 10% hike. Even with gap coverage, the highest liability limits allowed and low deductibles on my collision, I'm still at right around $900/yr. This is not an expensive car to insure, at least not relative to the sedan I got out of.

9291150

I found the same thing about good insurance rates, seems like it helps that the 8 is a four door four seater. In my case with two cars and two bikes, I pay enough in insurance!

Graybeard, I share your enthusiasm with VW's, I think they are great drivers cars. But my Passat was just too unreliable. I think Germans over engineer their products, just one look at the servo assisted power ABS system with braided lines on my BMW bike tells the story. It's very advanced, but offers much worse feel and modulation compared to the conventional brakes on my Honda. My Passat was the only front driver I ever drove with nearly no torque steer. But, my upper and lower control arms and all links were replaced twice!

dupa12345

This was definately worth reading .. especially if you're deciding to get the 8.

The crucial diference some people fail to understand when selecting a new car is what kind of drivers are they. One type will like the agility and starosphere revs and some will like the low rev torque. Consequently first should be looking at civic si, rsx-s, rx8, s2000, etc and others should be looking at turboed coupes, heavy v8s, and such.

Red Devil

Nice write-up, welcome to the club.