9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I'm not scaring anyone, it is what it is. Mazda did a good job of handling the situation I think and it was a hard lesson learned in terms of R&D. But hell even the testing procedure is questionable. Some dealers have done compression tests on cold motors, some dealers make you replace coil and plugs first before they will even do it, some require oil change receipts, some cover the rental, some don't. A lot of it is very inconsistent and profit driven.

The updated flash does not fix the fact that there is no third oil injector. If that was the case then my second (and many, many others) engine would not have lost compression at 50-75k.

We have a fairly large and very active local group and almost everyone has had an engine replacement that I can think of except grungepup (07' GT), tbk (07' Touring), and Remington (09' R3 but did own an 04' with a failure).

Hopefully (I believe they did) Mazda did fix the issues with the motors on the 09's.

ken-x8

Is the problem the apex seals because of no third injector, side seals from carbon in the ports, and/or carbon from injecting regular motor oil instead of two-stroke oil? Or does anyone really know?

FWIW, the '04-'05 RX8 has made CU's used car "avoid" list. And regardless of whether 25% is a good number, the fact that Mazda has set up a full time shop to rebuild engines says something.

Personally, I'm not concerned. While the 8 is my daily driver, at this stage of my life it's also a toy. The 8 year 100K warranty will cut my losses if the engine blows.

Ken

Roaddemon

I have a rotary master mechanic at my dealer. He knows his stuff so I'm not worried. Coil testing was suppose to be part of the recall. My car was fine. I live in a cold climate Wisconsin, so I don't need a third injector. If I move to Florida I might need one then. Otherwise I have confidence this engine will live to old age. I'll find out cause I'm keeping it a long time. (at least till the 10 year warranty is up)

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

True, side seal issue is significant (maybe even more than the injector issue), I shouldn't have simplified it as I did. And yes, a lot of our feeling, thoughts, etc. are based on no official technical data.

I have ran the SOHN, premixed the gas, put in Shell 93 only, 0W synthetic changes every 1500-2500 miles, and never driven her cold and still my engine could fail and blow all the theories out of teh water for me.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

How many miles do you have on it?

Also, on my 2nd engine they supposedly tested my coils and they were bad yet they were pretty much brand new OEM coils installed at that dealer a couple months before. I didn't care becuase I had an extended warranty that covered new coils, plugs, and wires but I still think the dealers are hit or miss as far as whet they do or don't do and cover. hell they never said **** about my midpipe and yet they wouldn't do the replacement on another local members car because of the midpipe

I'm glad you plan on sticking with the car, I love this car. Even if/when this engines fails, I will get a rebuild from Mazmart and buy a DD.

New Yorker

As I've said elsewhere, I happen to believe there's "another" explanation for the changes in the '09 engine. Which is that the Renesis happens to have a very small margin for owner neglect/abuse (i.e. not checking the oil every other fill-up, not letting the oil level drop too low, not changing the oil frequently, not zinging the engine regularly, not using the prescribed grade or type of motor oil, modding the engine in some way, putting things that are not gasoline into the gasoline tank, not getting flash updates in a timely manner, etc, etc.)

My guess is that the '09 changes simply allows more owners to get away with "casual maintenance" without experiencing problems. I'd be billing to bet that if you took away owners guilty of one or more of the above sins, you'd find only a tiny percentage of cars that needed engine replacement.

Which means the Renesis design wasn't flawed. It was just very high maintenance.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yes, I agree and like I said, Renesis ownership is not for the meek. It has definitely tested my loyalty to the brand.

Roaddemon

I'm a careless casual owner. I have 41k on the car. I bought it as a demo with 2.3k miles in 04. It was the dealers 1st rx8. I never premixed. I start and stop cold all the time. Always burn 87 octane only. Only check the oil about every 2k miles. I red line only now and then. I use a quart about every 3k miles. so far this car has been more trouble free than my bought new 94 accord, 91 integra and 2000 626 at their 6 year mark. I've done two 3.2k mile road trips. It was flawless. I feel blessed. Maybe you guys should stop using 93 octane might cause carbon issues.. I can't be the only one with a perfect rx8. This car is still my pride and joy after 6 years. I had 2 other early model rx7s and never had problems with them either.

I do get the oil changes every 6 mos or 3k miles with the recommended oil.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Mine performed flawlessly to until that day when the engines failed, there really was no warning they both just started stalling one day. Also if you don't drive hard you may not even notice the power loss. Many drive low compression engines without ever knowing because they don't drive hard.

Roaddemon

I redline now and then enough to reasure it is running OK. Especially when riced tuners challenge me. But not everyday to clear out carbon. long road trips do that quite well. Anyway I hope the bomb does not drop. right now I'm lovin it all and a blown engine would disappoint me. I still have 4 years left on my warranty. When I break the 50k and 75k failed engine milestones Ill make sure to shout it on this forum. I seriously don't expect any problems. It runs too good.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Well for me, I was disappointed when my second engine failed but then again I did get a new engine at 96,000 so it was for the best I guess. But, now I do everything possible to make sure she is happy.

I am glad Mazda owned up to the issue though.

Roaddemon

That is cool. I would not mind getting a new engine free at no cost in my 8 at 96k. Mine can fail any time it wants after 70k before my warranty runs out. The car would last me another 10 years which is good because I never get tired of driving it.

zoom44

i'm sorry can someone point me to the original 25% quote?

Roaddemon

The quote is hearsay. No such number. Conjecture and speculation based.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I hate the search function on this site but let me look There are also some unofficial numbers as to how many engines were coming/came from the reman plants on average. I think if you calculate how many engines sleepy-z did a day as one employee as t the plant and consider there is a 2-3 week wait for each dealer for a motor then the numbers are quite high when you look at sales figures. Not sure about 25% exactly but the polls here showed about that.

There is some stuff in this article I have never heard of.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...da_recall.html

Roaddemon

Polls here are only a small sample. Mazda does not release such info. You'll never prove it. 25% is only a guess. Probably more like 10%. Who cares anyway. I'll take a new engine if they are giving them away. This is a win win situation.

Silverisk8

iTrader: (1)

No offense to anyone this is just my 2 cent....

If you autocross your RX8 - dont expect it to last like the others who actually take care of it... even if you change oil every 3,000 miles and do a couple of mods and do this and that, bottom line is your engine will fail and be in worst condition than the others who don't abuse

if you baby your RX8 - and do the regular maintance, expect to have some small issues but not retarded like those who abuse

If you buy a RX8 thinking you can ride it like a EVO, STI, 350z, Eclipse, Celica etc, you bought the wrong car, the Renesis Engine can never be compared to any other sportscar, accept the fact you got what you paid for, plain and simple....

Main problems on the RX8 were corrected from the mistakes experienced on 04 and 05's just like Roaddemon stated, 06-08 recalls are less than 04-05's so if you were to buy a RX8 just make sure it has the latest service done and it's still under warranty...

Me personally I never owned a car without a warranty, if the warranty is about to expire I'll upgrade to a newer version or just change it, no matter how much I love the dam car, MY POCKET EXPENSES come first, it's a hobby not a commitment like a wife .. jejee lol...

As for asking for advice from a Mazda TECH , it's not a bad action, actually there are a few good techs that know about the RX8 which wont let you down, however there are a few of them who talk without doing their homework, and assume to tell you to replace parts that have nothing to do witgh the problem, it's like someone wrote before, Service Rep. sits all day and the info is infront of them, they dont care as long as their paycheck is in the bank every 2 weeks...

Not trying to start an arguement who's right or not, it's just my opinion, should some agree good , should some not, o well I'm not getting paid for a Census....

ken-x8

That article was pretty widely cited here in '06 when the video surfaced and 4206f was announced. Note that failures were attributed to hot climates and use of synthetic oil. The video was fun. I watched it on youtube, but in a moment of laziness did not save it before it got yanked.

There were a few posts from folks who brought their cars in for the recall and were astounded to be told that they had flunked and were getting new engines. Supports your point that some may be driving with failing engines and not realize it.

A problem with that recall was that the North Carolina rebuild plant did poor work. It was eventually shut down and replaced with the Virginia plant. I wonder how many of the repeat engine failures involved NC rebuilds. Any idea where your replacement engines came from?

Ken

milkis

i'm just wondering if that 25% of engine failure was mainly caused by dealers for not having experience with rotary. say, they screw it up and do a temporary fix then later engine fails.
we can only blame the engine cause that's what they said?

cornholio135

iTrader: (2)

^ obviously YOU bought the wrong car.
I hear Toyota is having some great deals right now...

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

My first reman was a caterpillar reman (supposedly crappy but mine lasted 75k if you consider that good) and my last one was from the plant sleep-z worked at (he had a thread explaining how to tell based on the tag on the block).

I agree maybe the heat contributes to the failures but not synthetic oil because my second motor only saw Castrol GTX 10W-30.

Either way, a few thousand engine failures is bad anyway you look at it or sugar coat it. The fact that there are only a hand full of 8's over 100,000 miles that are on the original motor is proof enough and the couple that I know of on this board have already failed.

I agree tracking your car will reduce its longevity but that is a non issue since I would say the people that have actually gone to the track in their cars is pretty low overall and even then its very limited time.

In this day and age, a properly serviced and well maintained engine should exceed 150,000 miles without issue. But, again, I was more than happy to get a new engine at 96,000

Besides, I would be bored every weekend if I didn't have something to mod or fix It's nice not having to worry about a warranty but that attitude may change if this engine fails prematurely

Decat

Yeah I had confidence too, until one road trip out of town when I all of a sudden out of nowhere just lost compression for no good reason with no warning at all, car had been PERFECT before this one fateful drive on the highway just cruising along.
Completely disagree, most guys I know with 8's are car guys and take care of the 8 with regular oil checks, I never went over on oil changes and always checked the oil level, but it didn't matter my 1st engine did not make it to 70k miles.
Yeah I felt the same way until the engine went out all of a sudden in an instant while I had it in cruise control on the highway.
Haha, that is exactly what I thought, I had NO signs of ANY problems and I was confident that I had a "good one", but no luck at any moment your renesis could go bad, it is just the nature of the engine.
It will not be completely free, more than likely you will get no rental car, it normally takes minimum 2 weeks just for delivery of new rebuilt engine, cross your fingers that the new rebuilt one is good, they have a VERY HIGH percentage of bad rebuilt engines, they will not cover new coils and plugs, and will normally require these things to be done along with providing proof of all oil changes and then maybe you get your car back in a month if you are lucky.
Haha, my guess would actually be higher than 25% but mazda is doing a good job of not letting this info out.
Haha, yeah for people like me who have never autocrossed and do more than regular oil changes and baby the car and yet still the engine goes out with no warning just cruising along on the highway, um everything you have to say has no relevance at all to the real world situation that NO Renesis engine is guaranteed 100k miles, hence the warranty extension, Mazda would not have done this without hard evidence that there was and is a big problem with the engine itself.
Haha, no..... Not many thing you can screw up that bad to cause internal loss of compression and bad apex seals. These are problems that can rear there heads at any time in any Renesis with no warning, just grow up accept it and get over it. Drive it and enjoy it while you can, but know that the engine is not reliable or Mazda would not have HAD to extend the warranty to avoid lawsuits, etc.

ken-x8

Gasp!! Not 5w20? That's the problem right there...

Ken

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah, if they came clean about it I am sure the numbers would be alarming. The sad thing is that the FD had a bad rep as it is so to bring back the RX8 and then have these problems pretty much assured that the rotary engine will never be seen as reliable.

Roaddemon

Decat,

How many miles when it failed? 6sp or auto?