Targatheory

The dealership I am dealing with right now is Menlo Mazda in CA. I got a used 2004 rx8 there earlier this year. They've never been a good dealer in my opinion. First of all, I paid way too much for the car itself. On top of that, they "lost" the spare key, leaving me with only one (and they wouldn't pay for a another key's programming either). They also promised me license plates 3 months ago....heard nothing of it yet. Until now.
My dad just told me he talked to them. Aparantly, the manager of the place fessed up. At the time of sale, Menlo Mazda never had the title of the car. This explains all too much. The reason why the "history" didn't have much info on it, why it said "Car noted as WHITE" in 2004, but "Car noted as BLACK" in 2005 (this was never explained to me, someone must have repainted my currently black car). The manager also admitted to lying to us, to basically keeping us from the truth and promising us license plates; they figured they would be able to gain the title (thus acquiring license plates) to the car before we started wondering, "Hey, where are my damn plates?"

I never really cared too much about the plates. I just hate now knowing how this dealership has been so shitty. My dad said we could suit, but I really doubt that would go down right. So what do you guys seriously suggest I do? I really don't want to let this pass, and just being chill about it. I want to demand something from them, and get it.

Would it be plausible to demand a car exchange? Since my car is no longer out of warranty, could I demand the official Mazda extended warranty? What about a full on refund, and just give them back the car? Maybe free service? Or at least a key programming? I can't believe this ****, makes me feel like I'm driving a stolen car...

loco-8

You should not have ever purchased a car from this dealer if you thought he was sketchy in the first place. Maybe it is stolen. Where is the title? Did you ever recieve it?
I'd return the car--get your money back and go somewhere else! Will never pay to continue working with such people.
Good luck.

chrism

are you high?...return the car, get a legit one.....period

KrashStitches

You have every right within the law to void your contract and return your car. The dealer has to take it back. I worked as a Finance Manager in So Cal, I suggest getting an attorney. California hates car dealers, they will take your side every time.

machfive

I would think you have the right to return the car for a refund or a legitimate one, especially since there was a "confession" by the dealer. BTW......where is Menlo Mazda? Mental note to self: Don't go to Menlo Mazda.

Good luck and keep us informed.

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

wow talk about deja vu.

was one thread not enough?

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Wtf ? Get a FUXKING refund right now. Fast

if they dont , threat them with a law suit.

ronk54

A car dealer cannot legally sell you a car that he does not have legal title too. If he misrepresented the facts about the title to you when you bought the car, he may be guilty of fraud.

I would definately consult a lawyer about this.

I an retired with my Juris Doctor law degree, so this is not legal advice. You need to talk to a currently practicing attorney.

If you cannot get the legal title, you will never be able to register the car in California and get plates. You also cannot legally sell the car without a title.

Targatheory

Hey sorry about the double post, I thought I messed up the first one.

Um, what if they DO get the title before anything drastic happens. Then what? Can I get away with anything at all? I really don't wanna go through the trouble of finding another car.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Im not going to take any chances

Talk to a laywer, get them to give you another car. Is not worth the risk to keep the car you have right now.

Celronx

iTrader: (1)

I agree with everyone here. Take that car back today. The most fishy part is the title that they can't get. If it is stolen and you're pulled over driving it........not good. At minimum possession of stolen property. Take it back right now.

StewC625

While not a lawyer, I too have a JD degree. Here's thoughts:

Start at the top - call the attorney general's office in your state and talk to them about it - what the dealer has done is patently illegal. This action will start two things: 1) State legal action against the dealer for breaking the law; and 2) give you a basis on which to pursue civil litigation against the dealer as well.

Then, consult a practicing civil litigation attorney especially one with property law experience - they can advise you from there, but most likely it will require filing of a suit - your suit should include as requested rememdies: a) Complete refund and return of the vehicle; 2) Compensatory damages for your legal fees, expenses in pursuing the legitimate ownership of the vehicle; 3) punitive damages in the value of what you paid for the vehicle as well.

If you see where I'm going, 3 becomes a negotiating point - you will likely settle very quickly as long as they cover #1 - which is your goal. If they insist on going to court with the case (why they would is beyond me), then you stick with all three, but increase the compensatory damages to include mental anguish as a result of having to drive a car with a questionable history and your fear of being pulled over as a result - of course in the value of the car.

Again, see a practicing attorney.

ken-x8

If it's been over three months, the only way they'll get a title is to forge one.

The black vs white thing is also fishy. This could be a rebuilt wreck. Or it could be a stolen car substituted for a total.

Listen to everyone who's telling you to consult a lawyer. IMHO, unless the lawyer advises you differently, you should aim at getting your money back. Then start over with a different dealer.

Ken

devildog1679

+1

astrozoom

Can they even legally sell a car without the title? I don't think they can. The title is what proves they have possession of the car. Without it, the car is not theirs, and they can not legally sell that car. I would return the car and demand a full refund. I would then at a minimum file a complaint with the better business bureau or who ever governs businesses in California. In my humble opinion, there should be a full investigation done on that dealer at this point.

StewC625

Nope, at least in IL a dealer cannot offer a vehicle for sale without possession of clear title to the vehicle, or a title that is held in escrow by the company that "floorplans" their inventory

Most dealers have a line of credit with a big finance company that finances their inventory for them - the titles are all "held in escrow" by the floorplan company - but physical possession of the title is in the dealers' hands. That financing is called "floorplanning" - basically, if a dealer finances a car through his floorplan provider, he reports the VIN to them, and legally, the floorplan company can claim title to the vehicle if the dealer defaults on his floorplan payments. But the floorplan co. doesn't actually hold title.

But at least in IL, the dealer must have title in possession if they are doing a transaction on the car. Otherwise, they can show it to you, let you drive it, etc. but they cannot execute a transaction or delivery without the actual title in hand.

Again, what the dealer did is illegal. Contact the attorney general in your state.

Mazurfer

Why are there two threads on this same subject by the same person?

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/need-your-advice-sketchy-dealer-120968/

Targatheory

Again, I'm sorry about the double post. I made one post, this thread, originally, then I checked the general page and it wasn't there, strange. I waited for a bit, refreshed a few times, and figured I messed something up. So I retyped a whole new thread and posted it. Normally when I post threads I see them show up on the main page immediately. Soorry.

So how much would this all cost me? I'm really a noob when it comes to all this legal jazz. And I know my dad will not want to deal with it. Man, I don't wanna give back my car...but its true, I feel weird driving it now. Like its not mine, or that everything is rebuilt etc.

XSeT

Menlo mazda is in redwood city, i bought my car there also.

ken-x8

Ask your lawyer. Most lawyers will do an initial consultation for free. They will also figure the way to get the most money out of the other guy, so you could even make a profit.

Ken

StewC625

Once again, start with the State Attorney General in your area - that will be free - get the law in on them before you start your civil proceedings. The state attorney general acts on behalf of the public, not you and they will jump on this like flies onto day-old dogshit.