zoom44

zoom zoom i was hoping to make a point which seeemed to go unoticed except by you. thanks. everybody calm down there is no need for name calling. sheesh :o

KrisA

Are there moderators in this forum? On most of the boards I visit "TheLaw" would be shown to the door.

natev

I would definitely have to agree...showh him the door.

Well anyways, for the intelligent non-bashing folks out there:

If the RX is your choice - get on a list and put down $$ and get "@ MSRP" in writing from your dealer or salesperson. Some scumbag Infiniti dealerships are really screwing people on the G35 Coupe and it is a shame. There is only going to be about 1200 6 Speed Manual Coupes produced for the first year. There will however be about 12,000 Autos made in the same period. Some dealers have recognized this fact and are currently tacking on insane mark-ups. $1000-$5000 OVER MSRP is what I have been hearing (Got mine in writing @MSRP). Hopefully, Mazda won't make this same mistake (for the average consumer) and have a screwed up 10:1 M6 to A5 ratio such as Infiniti did with their "marketing polls". Who would want an Auto (if you can possibly drive a manual) Sports car anyways??

zoom44

i have a bad left knee which when it acts up causes painwhich is aggravated by clutch work. so i have considered an automatic. then i decided i was insane, after all whats a little pain and its only once in a while

PatrickB

I want a manual, too, but don't forget that there are people with handicaps who *can't* easily use a manual but can work an automatic. One person posted on here a few weeks back that the RX-8 would be great because it'd be much easier for him to get his wheelchair in and out, but of course he needed an automatic transmission car.

TheLaw

I don't want to be seen as the bad guy, but before Natev erased his post where he called me a "f--k" and said I was a child, and how he owned a Millenia, and now on top of this a G35c, this makes him more of a loyal Mazda follower than me, and his opinion on beauty is better than mine. Oh yes, I also am high because I don't like the looks of the coupe. Far be it for me to condemn someone who
A. purchases a vehicle he has not seen and is not yet in production

B. repeatedly goes on a Mazda forum and states that his Nissan product is beautiful, and anyone who thinks it is ugly is "smoking something".

C. Comes from Boston, cannot spell English, and has a baseball team with a 100 million dollar plus payroll that won't see the playoffs this year.

I am a law student, I admit to lying/bragging, and stating that I was a lawyer, but I legally am allowed as a student to assist lawyers on cases. Natev, by the way the correct spelling is native, not natev. You must be one of those hillbilly millionaires who can't read but is worth millions and can afford a stable of luxury cars, including one not out yet for MSRP. Guess who's lying now folks?

zoom44

well you could start not being the bad guy buy staying on topic instead of posting another rant about nate v.

PatrickB

Zoom44 - yeah, that would help, but would also require self-control and class.

Toadman

Zoom, stop provoking him. I've been ready to whack this thread and ban all day, but it seems to keep getting back on a valid topic.

One more turn for the worse and the thread is gone.
One more poke at anyone to incite flamage and you're gone for 30 days. This goes for everyone here.

BlueAdept

Woha! My sanity keeps telling me to leave this alone... but I'm stupid, so here goes!

Come on... back on topic.

We've not got an MSRP for the car anywhere... but I recall the S2000 situation in the UK... I almost bought one but the prices went up over the first 9 months...

Does anyone know what the availability will be like, becasue with the S2000 it was poor, leading to high prices... I can't afford for it to be more than £25-30K and I'd hope to get a loaded one under 30... I planned to wait perhaps 6 months for the bugs to get worked out, but if it's gonna be 35 after 6 months then I'm in trouble.

There was a point where second hand S2000's were going for more than the purchase price!

PatrickB

From what I've heard, initial availability will be low, as in each dealer getting no more than 3 or so. As you say, simple supply and demand will have the dealers upping price above MSRP, which would really be a shame. On the other hand, maybe Mazda will surprise us with the supply...

ZoomZoom

I keep on hearing the same thing about the low supply from my dealer, but for the life of me I cannot figure out why Mazda is not going to pump these things out. It’s in their best interest to do so.

natev

I would assume if the Supply from Mazda is initially low then you can certainly expect some sort of action from the Mazda dealerships.....it's just the simple economic fact of "supply and demand"...it is a shame but dealerships are individual franchises so therefore Mazda (nor Infifniti) can force them to sell at MSRP....hence "Manufacturer SUGGESTED Retail Price"....it only a suggestion to keep all dealer in the same ballpark....the RX-8, in some trims (6M?) and in some areas will have a nice "MSRP add-on". Too bad.

:p

RX-pecting

You're right about not being able to force them, but it's alot more than a shame...
As an averagely tolerant consumer I strongly lobby against selling above MSRP. The manufacturer who sets a market RETAIL value of the car has already done so <<taking the dealerships need for profit into account>>, thus the dealer that takes MSRP and THEN raises prices is Mucking you over, blatantly.

Natev, you forget fact and are too easy on dealerships, but remember that the MSRP, though suggested, is often attained with more research than the prices set by dealerships.

This may sound cynnical, but the dealer PROVES his ineptitude by raising the prices: cause other then we RX-8-zealots here (no offense to anyone :D), in raising prices the conservative buyer (BIG chunk in the car market) will go elsewhere.

My point? I have more faith in the retailers assessment than in the dealers. So when a dealer tried to sell me an MP3 at 4k above MSRP (4 FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!) , I was outraged, I test drove one of his cars, scratched it, and left the Bahs-tud

Unless you've got plenty of cash just sittin and collecting dust, don't put yourself through that, and AND DON'T JUST BRUSH IT OFF WITH "THAT'S A SHAME"!

BTW: Many of you have now gotten a deposit on the RX-8 at MSRP, well it may interest you to know that my dealer told me I got the last one. Sceptical, I had a friend call him and ask if he could set deposit for one: the dealer said he would order it for him (commitement? the exact same any of us have made with our deposits ie: conditional upon test drive).
Any one of us can lobby at ANY dealership for MSRP, there is consensus on many of the dealerships (at least, in Montreal).
Please forgive me if I sound touchy on this, but I'm only looking out for the best interest of the consumer, YOU HAVE ROOM FOR NEG. !!!

thanks for your time
Probably-Ralph-Nater-In-Some-Past-Life

natev

whoa - chill out - I am pissed off, but I am getting my 6 spd Sport Coupe at MSRP (maybe a couple hundred $$ below)...I am actually very pissed off that some dealers are trying to do this and what you need to do is take action. When you find a dealer that is "marking up", wipe them out....protest, picket - whatever. Just be sure that they, you and everyone else you come in contact with gets wind of what dealership A is doing....before long when dealership B is selling at MSRP or below....everyone will flood to them and force dealer A to come back to effing reality....case in point, I got an email with pre-order info from Lisle Infinti in Illinois, they got 28 Coupes in their first allotment....4 6 Speed Manual.....they currently have 16 "unclaimed" ones.....guess how many Auto's.....16. I highly doubt anyone will ever pay over MSRP for an Auto, but watch when the poor unsuspecting average Joe walks in and asks to "order" a 6 speed....can we say rape....Saw one ad for $5000 over sticker for M6 (6 speed). Hopefully this won't happen to the RX-8 and they'll have plenty of BOTH trannys available......I know if it was me, and I didn't have a pre-Vin order # already from Infinti and I wanted a Manual, I be running to my nearest Mazda dealer to get in line for one. Good luck to you all.

Elara

A point no one has yet brought up- currently, dealerships are having a great deal of trouble moving cars- and the problem doesn't look like it's going to let up any time soon.

I work for an "auto superstore" and we just sold one of our Nissan dealerships because we didn't want to lose any more money- and that was WITH all the pre-ordered 350z's.

IF the market doesn't get better soon, and it doesn't look like it will anytime in the next 6 months, Mazda dealers would be pretty dumb to try and sell ANYTHING much over MSRP, because certainly no one else will be. Dealers are going to be fighting each other to sell to customers even more than they already are.

Yes, there is going to be a demand for the RX-8, I would expect- but there's also going to be some major competition for consumer's business in the next year.

Feel free to contradict me, too- I may be wrong on this- but from everything I've seen recently, I think I'm not.

PS- I just realized that I sounded like I thought it was a BAD thing that cars are so cheap- didn't mean that at all! Sorry! Brain not engaging or something! I am *praying* the RX-8 isn't marked up so much I can't afford it!

BlueAdept

Don't be afraid... we like a buyers market...

Mazda would do well to put a small markup on this car, sell as many as they can because if they can prove that the renesis is good, they'll be able to use this platform for other cars... the Renesis costs LESS than a standard V6 BTW.

Rich

There's absolutely nothing wrong with dealer's marking cars up over MSRP. If there are 10,000 cars delivered in a year and 20,000 people want them at the MSRP price, how are the dealers supposed to decide who gets them? Marking up the price so the demand drops to about 10,000 buyers is one way.

If you don't want to pay over MSRP, there are lots of ways to avoid it. If you want the car bad enough to pay over MSRP, enjoy the car! There's no way I'd pay over MSRP for an RX-8, but if a new RX-7 comes out in a few years, I'd certainly consider paying a few grand over MSRP. I WANT that car, even though I don't know anything about it!

Let the market set the price. Any other solution would cause more problems than benefits.

BlueAdept

Well... Car manufacturers can help, after all if they sell twice as many cars and have half the profit on each, then they don't loose... but their popularity goes up... especially if they do that on a car so cool as this!

They can sell lesser models like family saloons off the back of it....

Rich

It's true that if they made more cars they could avoid the price gouging, but how should they do that? Let's say they are ready to have the first 500 hit dealer lots on March 1. They could avoid the price gouging scene by not letting those first 500 leave the factory for a month so they've got a few thousand to hit stores in April or May. Would you rather they delay? I sure wouldn't!

There's always a balance between making so many of a product that you can't sell them all (Aztec) and making so few that the demand outstrips the supply (S2000). Both are bad, but for the manufacturer the first is much worse than the second. The ideal situation is for a product to be just a tiny bit short of the demand. Then there's also the timing issue. You can't immediately meet the full demand for a car. If the car is desireable, it's not possible to fully meet that demand in the first day/week/month. That's why price gouging goes down dramatically after a few weeks or months.

If Mazda gets the car right, the demand simply *will* be greater than the supply. If that happens, Mazda has absolutely no power over what the dealers do about the situation. Customers that don't want to pay the markups have tons of options to avoid it. There are always dealers that won't charge over MSRP, but they usually are sold out for a long time in advance. Get on the list. Or, if you've got to have it RIGHT NOW!, get ready to pay over MSRP. I'd rather just wait a while and let things settle down. I don't care if I have to wait an extra few months.

Only you can determine the price you're willing to pay for the car. If you don't want to pay what the dealers are charging, the simple solution is...don't.

TheLaw

First of all, price gouging won't last forever. It never does. It's called supply and demand. Demand outstrips supply, price goes up. When that demand weakens, price goes down. If you want to picket a dealership and look like an idiot, by all means do so. Most dealerships are on crowded avenues and freeway exits, so be prepared to be laughed at by a lot of passing drivers.

The solution is to just wait. And wait. I personally would never buy a car at MSRP, considering that even at INVOICE, the dealer still makes a profit, because of factory incentives. Your goal is to be able to bargain down below that price. If you consider buying a car at MSRP worth patting yourself on the back, then no amount of picketing will get what you truly want, which is a good deal on a car.

TheLaw

Take into account that the RX-8 isn't supposed to be a huge profit maker for Mazda. It's what's known as a halo car. It is sporty, and people who can't afford it, will buy other Mazdas thinking their buying into sportyness as well. That's why the corvette is a chevy and not a cadillac. So they're not going to just make as many as they deem will sell. They WANT it to be rare and limited, so that it is seen as a valuable commodity.

Mazda will probably not make a profit on this car for years to come, if not ever. It is a unique platform, using a unique engine. The engine is always the most expensive part of the vehicle, and since it's a small production engine, it's going to cost a lot. This is totally a "halo" car.

rx-8_or?

That quote is Very wrong!

Toadman

Chill guys..

Hercules

I remember reading something about Mazda making this a car 'for the masses.' That's why the RX-8 will become their flagship car. I remember that the Mazda folks wanted this car to be a big seller and will market it towards families and such that need a useable back seat. The RX-7 will be more of the 'halo' car that you mentioned I think...

But I might be wrong