Hyundai Tiburon owner, thinking about an 8
01-17-2007, 11:30 PM
#251
FULL FRONTAL ...downforce
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rootski
... not like the Mustang where you put on an intake and exhaust and get 35hp... all that tells me is that someone slacked off when they designed the engine.
The rx-8 however, was not created to be cheap and easily sold, it was made to perform CONSTANTLY.
01-17-2007, 11:48 PM
#252
Originally Posted by prescriptionmazda
What it tells me is that the mustang was designed to be a cheaply made sports car, they probably didn't want to do anything to it to add more to the cost, and also therefore, the price.
The rx-8 however, was not created to be cheap and easily sold, it was made to perform CONSTANTLY.
The rx-8 however, was not created to be cheap and easily sold, it was made to perform CONSTANTLY.
01-18-2007, 08:18 AM
#253
Vroom
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by prescriptionmazda
What it tells me is that the mustang was designed to be a cheaply made sports car, they probably didn't want to do anything to it to add more to the cost, and also therefore, the price.
The rx-8 however, was not created to be cheap and easily sold, it was made to perform CONSTANTLY.
The rx-8 however, was not created to be cheap and easily sold, it was made to perform CONSTANTLY.
I don't see how a Mustang V8 GT 'Vert priced at $32K or a Shelby GT Convertible at $46k that gets 500HP/500ftlbs can be considered cheap.
01-18-2007, 11:10 AM
#254
Past Owner :(
Originally Posted by dbb
First time I saw you post, I thought the same.
btw, I made my avatar back in 2003, as can be seen from my join date.
So, I contend that you are the avatar thief
btw, I made my avatar back in 2003, as can be seen from my join date.
So, I contend that you are the avatar thief
Awww, you don't have to change ur avatar just for me!! I figured you had ur avatar since joining, but I actually hadn't seen it. I guess I am a thief...
-Steakboy
01-18-2007, 06:24 PM
#256
Rotary Superstar
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rhawb
I'm not sure why bolt ons don't give you any significant gains, but I know the weak points in boosting are the apex seals (sealing the rotor to the housing). They just can't hold any serious pressure without blowing out. If you keep your car NA and take care of it, it'll probably last longer than a piston engine. Problem is, most people don't take care of their rotaries properly so you see a lot of junkers.
Dude....
Stop making things up. Your wrong.
The bolt on's don't give "huge" gains because Mazda did it's homework from the factory. The intake on the stock car is already AMAZING, and yet still complies with US emissions (read: noise restraint) laws. It CAN be improved, but only slightly, and at the increase of lots of noise.
The exhaust is VERY good from the factory, albiet, the only "restriction" being the catalytic convertor, which, for a rotary car, isn't bad, either. The older RX7's (NA and Turbo) gained an insane amount of power from removing the catalytic convertor, as it was extremely large and bulky, not the toned down, compact unit you will find on your RX8. Technology!
Apex seals are not the weak point in boosting. The weak point in boosting is the tuner. Without proper tuning, especially with 10.0:1 compression (this is equivalent to extremely high compression on a piston motor, as we have much less robust seals, not to mention, fewer), tuning is extremely important. Rotary engines do NOT tolerate knock (detonation) in any way, shape, or form. One or two VERY, VERY slight detonations can sometimes be OK..but in most cases, they are not. The engine will normally spit out 1 of the apex seals under a severe detonation, and that one (or, a peice of one, rather) will end up, in most cases, causing severe damage to the rotor, the rotor housing, and in some cases, the irons around it.
Rotary engines are extremely reliable when boosted, and many are pro-dragged at over 60 psi..with engines that can last up to 2 seasons!! You won't see ANY piston engine doing that in drag racing..
Last edited by AdRoCK3217; 01-18-2007 at 06:30 PM.
01-18-2007, 06:35 PM
#257
Rotary Superstar
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Shinka-Dono
Answer: Its a 1.3 liter engine! Its tiny. Its little. Its s-m-all. Without boost Mazda has squeezed out almost as much as it can give.
I dunno. With a revised intake, a bridgeport, a tubular header / catless exhaust, and a nice CAI, not to mention a good EMS..
I could see the Renesis making a good 250-275rwhp, without breaking a sweat on AFR's.
01-18-2007, 07:17 PM
#258
Has the whole shit.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,772
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by AdRoCK3217
Dude....
Stop making things up. Your wrong.
The bolt on's don't give "huge" gains because Mazda did it's homework from the factory. The intake on the stock car is already AMAZING, and yet still complies with US emissions (read: noise restraint) laws. It CAN be improved, but only slightly, and at the increase of lots of noise.
The exhaust is VERY good from the factory, albiet, the only "restriction" being the catalytic convertor, which, for a rotary car, isn't bad, either. The older RX7's (NA and Turbo) gained an insane amount of power from removing the catalytic convertor, as it was extremely large and bulky, not the toned down, compact unit you will find on your RX8. Technology!
Apex seals are not the weak point in boosting. The weak point in boosting is the tuner. Without proper tuning, especially with 10.0:1 compression (this is equivalent to extremely high compression on a piston motor, as we have much less robust seals, not to mention, fewer), tuning is extremely important. Rotary engines do NOT tolerate knock (detonation) in any way, shape, or form. One or two VERY, VERY slight detonations can sometimes be OK..but in most cases, they are not. The engine will normally spit out 1 of the apex seals under a severe detonation, and that one (or, a peice of one, rather) will end up, in most cases, causing severe damage to the rotor, the rotor housing, and in some cases, the irons around it.
Rotary engines are extremely reliable when boosted, and many are pro-dragged at over 60 psi..with engines that can last up to 2 seasons!! You won't see ANY piston engine doing that in drag racing..
Stop making things up. Your wrong.
The bolt on's don't give "huge" gains because Mazda did it's homework from the factory. The intake on the stock car is already AMAZING, and yet still complies with US emissions (read: noise restraint) laws. It CAN be improved, but only slightly, and at the increase of lots of noise.
The exhaust is VERY good from the factory, albiet, the only "restriction" being the catalytic convertor, which, for a rotary car, isn't bad, either. The older RX7's (NA and Turbo) gained an insane amount of power from removing the catalytic convertor, as it was extremely large and bulky, not the toned down, compact unit you will find on your RX8. Technology!
Apex seals are not the weak point in boosting. The weak point in boosting is the tuner. Without proper tuning, especially with 10.0:1 compression (this is equivalent to extremely high compression on a piston motor, as we have much less robust seals, not to mention, fewer), tuning is extremely important. Rotary engines do NOT tolerate knock (detonation) in any way, shape, or form. One or two VERY, VERY slight detonations can sometimes be OK..but in most cases, they are not. The engine will normally spit out 1 of the apex seals under a severe detonation, and that one (or, a peice of one, rather) will end up, in most cases, causing severe damage to the rotor, the rotor housing, and in some cases, the irons around it.
Rotary engines are extremely reliable when boosted, and many are pro-dragged at over 60 psi..with engines that can last up to 2 seasons!! You won't see ANY piston engine doing that in drag racing..
Anyway, are you saying that the apex seals are NOT the part that usually fails in boosted rotaries, or are you saying that high boost pressures will cause the seals to blow out (just like I am)? It seems that you're trying to say both at once, so I'm confused. Either way, I fail to see where I'm wrong in stating that the weakest link in an FI rotary is at the apex seals - please enlighten me.
Sure, there are reliable rotaries that are boosted all to hell and back, but there's no way you're going to run more than just modest boost in an 8 without at least tearing down the whole engine and replacing the seals. I've seen and heard of several cases where seals were blown thanks to boost (including a member of this board, whose turbo was installed and tuned by a highly respected rotary shop).
01-19-2007, 09:02 AM
#259
Laid back in the pocket
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think he is saying that the tuning is the primary cause of failure under boost. The seals being damged is a result of the poor tuning. Thus tuning is the "weak point".
01-19-2007, 11:22 AM
#260
Has the whole shit.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,772
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm getting the feeling that we're saying the same thing from two different angles.
The apex seals will fail due to poor tuning. Thus, physically, the apex seals are almost always the weak point (my argument). Figuratively though, the failure is caused by poor tuning and/or other issues that put added strain on the seals (his argument). It's the same idea, but I think he may have misunderstood my whole point. I think he read my post as something akin to "the apex seals are faulty," rather than "the apex seals commonly fail in FI applications," as I intended.
I still say though, it's not a simple task to boost a rotary.
The apex seals will fail due to poor tuning. Thus, physically, the apex seals are almost always the weak point (my argument). Figuratively though, the failure is caused by poor tuning and/or other issues that put added strain on the seals (his argument). It's the same idea, but I think he may have misunderstood my whole point. I think he read my post as something akin to "the apex seals are faulty," rather than "the apex seals commonly fail in FI applications," as I intended.
I still say though, it's not a simple task to boost a rotary.
Last edited by Rhawb; 01-19-2007 at 11:25 AM.
01-19-2007, 02:49 PM
#261
Rotary Superstar
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I suppose you could look at it that way. However, I think my way of expressing the issue is MUCH more suited to the area..
With what your saying, noobies will come read this thread, and will continue to spread false-hoods like "omg, apex seals are why rotarys suck man". I hate seeing that said, and it's really not true. Bad tuning is what causes these motors to fail (prematurely), that or, a set of twin turbos placed right up against the block to fry the coolant seals
With what your saying, noobies will come read this thread, and will continue to spread false-hoods like "omg, apex seals are why rotarys suck man". I hate seeing that said, and it's really not true. Bad tuning is what causes these motors to fail (prematurely), that or, a set of twin turbos placed right up against the block to fry the coolant seals
01-20-2007, 11:40 PM
#266
Has the whole shit.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,772
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by dbb
wait. I'm confused.
no. It's ok.
Carry on.
no. It's ok.
Carry on.
01-23-2007, 06:32 PM
#270
Hyogen's RX-8
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: portland, OR
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Huskyfan23
I certainly wouldn't say the RX8 is slow, by any means.
The manual RX8 is definitely faster than the Hyundai Tiburon V6...
As for racing, it all depends on what type of road you are on. If you have a road with a lot of turns and corners, the 8 is an unbelievable performer (much better than the 350Z in the corners). In a straight line, though, there are many cars that can beat it (S2000, 350Z, etc).
You really want to have an unbiased review? Check out this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2emH...elated&search=
Top Gear review of the RX8 in comparison to track times of 350Z and BMW M3. All three had the same track time.
All I can say is....test drive the car. You will not find a more fun car on the planet for under $40K, as well as a more original car. The 9000 RPM redline and ultra smooth engine make the car one of the best in the world (imo).
The manual RX8 is definitely faster than the Hyundai Tiburon V6...
As for racing, it all depends on what type of road you are on. If you have a road with a lot of turns and corners, the 8 is an unbelievable performer (much better than the 350Z in the corners). In a straight line, though, there are many cars that can beat it (S2000, 350Z, etc).
You really want to have an unbiased review? Check out this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2emH...elated&search=
Top Gear review of the RX8 in comparison to track times of 350Z and BMW M3. All three had the same track time.
All I can say is....test drive the car. You will not find a more fun car on the planet for under $40K, as well as a more original car. The 9000 RPM redline and ultra smooth engine make the car one of the best in the world (imo).
I definitely agree with you there...but what do you say about the S2000? my friends say it's a faster/better car than the RX8... tons of fun..
I test drove a 2006 model and it was softer than the 8. my 8 was a lot more fun, felt like it had more pull. But they say that the older first couple years of s2000 were the best
what say you? ;o rx8 > s2000? both under $40k.
01-23-2007, 06:43 PM
#271
U-Stink-But-I-♥-U
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 12 o'clock on the Beltway.
Posts: 2,004
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I was looking for the pie. I figgered I find it by 7 pages/ 270+ posts. Guess I will look else where.
I will say that I thought I saw a Tiburon once that I thought I liked but it turned out to be a Supra at a funny angle.
They made good commertials when they came out back in the '90s. With the shark and all.
I think that supercarfan guy is actually SporturaCollection. Look him up. He was fun.
I will say that I thought I saw a Tiburon once that I thought I liked but it turned out to be a Supra at a funny angle.
They made good commertials when they came out back in the '90s. With the shark and all.
I think that supercarfan guy is actually SporturaCollection. Look him up. He was fun.
01-23-2007, 06:53 PM
#272
Shock and Awe
Originally Posted by carbonRX8
I was looking for the pie. I figgered I find it by 7 pages/ 270+ posts. Guess I will look else where.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...43#post1694343
