How easy is it to steal the RX-8?
03-10-2004, 01:25 AM
#26
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Originally posted by MazdaManiac
Are you still living in 1967?:p
Last I checked, the Renesis needed the spark plugs to be fired from time to time to complete the combustion cycle.
No spark, no go.
No coils firing, no spark.
No ignition sequence from the PCM, no coils firing.
No registered key head, no PCM cooperation.
Fortunately for the RX-8, this is a good kind of CAN buss interference.
Without the sensor coil in the steering column seeing a registered key in position, the PCM won't produce ignition.
You can try to bump start the Renesis all you want. This isn't the muscle car days of mechanical fuel pumps and points distributors!
Furthermore, no proper sequence for the keyless entry system and the PCM wont say OK even with the right key.
Try it some time!
Are you still living in 1967?:p
Last I checked, the Renesis needed the spark plugs to be fired from time to time to complete the combustion cycle.
No spark, no go.
No coils firing, no spark.
No ignition sequence from the PCM, no coils firing.
No registered key head, no PCM cooperation.
Fortunately for the RX-8, this is a good kind of CAN buss interference.
Without the sensor coil in the steering column seeing a registered key in position, the PCM won't produce ignition.
You can try to bump start the Renesis all you want. This isn't the muscle car days of mechanical fuel pumps and points distributors!
Furthermore, no proper sequence for the keyless entry system and the PCM wont say OK even with the right key.
Try it some time!
03-10-2004, 01:28 AM
#27
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Originally posted by MazdaManiac
Are you still living in 1967?:p
Last I checked, the Renesis needed the spark plugs to be fired from time to time to complete the combustion cycle.
No spark, no go.
No coils firing, no spark.
No ignition sequence from the PCM, no coils firing.
No registered key head, no PCM cooperation.
Fortunately for the RX-8, this is a good kind of CAN buss interference.
Without the sensor coil in the steering column seeing a registered key in position, the PCM won't produce ignition.
You can try to bump start the Renesis all you want. This isn't the muscle car days of mechanical fuel pumps and points distributors!
Furthermore, no proper sequence for the keyless entry system and the PCM wont say OK even with the right key.
Try it some time!
Are you still living in 1967?:p
Last I checked, the Renesis needed the spark plugs to be fired from time to time to complete the combustion cycle.
No spark, no go.
No coils firing, no spark.
No ignition sequence from the PCM, no coils firing.
No registered key head, no PCM cooperation.
Fortunately for the RX-8, this is a good kind of CAN buss interference.
Without the sensor coil in the steering column seeing a registered key in position, the PCM won't produce ignition.
You can try to bump start the Renesis all you want. This isn't the muscle car days of mechanical fuel pumps and points distributors!
Furthermore, no proper sequence for the keyless entry system and the PCM wont say OK even with the right key.
Try it some time!
You only have to go back a couple of years in some cars to still be able to do this btw not to the 60's.
03-10-2004, 01:31 AM
#28
Originally posted by rotarygod
Well let's see since I already acknowledged my error above I'm just going to assume you didn't see it.
You only have to go back a couple of years in some cars to still be able to do this btw not to the 60's.
Well let's see since I already acknowledged my error above I'm just going to assume you didn't see it.
You only have to go back a couple of years in some cars to still be able to do this btw not to the 60's.
03-10-2004, 01:42 AM
#29
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Originally posted by Omicron
It does have a flashing dash indicator.
It does have a flashing dash indicator.
i hardly even notice the dash indicator unless i sit in the car, or actually stare into the window, a more obvious indicator would be nice
.Something subtle like the VW blinkin LED on the driver-side door would even suffice - better than what we currently have.
03-10-2004, 03:29 AM
#31
Prodigal Wankler
Originally posted by TurboRX8Girl
I agree. I owned a 2nd gen RX-7 and I never worried about locking the keys in the car. Its as if mazda put a secret door handle nside the door. All it took was like you said, something flat to push down on a flat spot just above the door handle, and it would unlock. The horn would start beeping, and the lights would start flashing, but the door opened.
I agree. I owned a 2nd gen RX-7 and I never worried about locking the keys in the car. Its as if mazda put a secret door handle nside the door. All it took was like you said, something flat to push down on a flat spot just above the door handle, and it would unlock. The horn would start beeping, and the lights would start flashing, but the door opened.
03-10-2004, 03:33 AM
#32
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The RX-8 immobiliser actually cuts the fuel supply, the ignition, AND the starter. The communication process between the transponder in the PCM is VERY complex, so probably difficult for a thieve to duplicate.
There is nothing to stop thieves from lifting your whole car and taking it back to their workshop though, where they can spend all the time they want reprogramming your PCM with hi-jacked software. Unless you have an alarm!
But the alarm is no use unless there is anyone around to care that it is going off or not.
The immobiliser light is a good deterrent, and the fact that your radio is part of the dashboard is also another one. A good alarm system with a sticker on the windshield, and maybe a steering wheel lock (visible to potential thieves) would be effective too.
I think a top line alarm would definitely be a good investment on a high visibility car like the RX-8
There is nothing to stop thieves from lifting your whole car and taking it back to their workshop though, where they can spend all the time they want reprogramming your PCM with hi-jacked software. Unless you have an alarm!
But the alarm is no use unless there is anyone around to care that it is going off or not.
The immobiliser light is a good deterrent, and the fact that your radio is part of the dashboard is also another one. A good alarm system with a sticker on the windshield, and maybe a steering wheel lock (visible to potential thieves) would be effective too.
I think a top line alarm would definitely be a good investment on a high visibility car like the RX-8
03-10-2004, 06:05 AM
#33
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Originally posted by moRotorMotor
I heard that the latest craze for car thieves is to break into your house at night and just take the car keys laying around (coffee table, kitchen table, dresser table and, last but not least, hanging on the key rack) and drive off with your baby. The home owner wakes up to find the driveway rather...roomy.
I heard that the latest craze for car thieves is to break into your house at night and just take the car keys laying around (coffee table, kitchen table, dresser table and, last but not least, hanging on the key rack) and drive off with your baby. The home owner wakes up to find the driveway rather...roomy.
03-10-2004, 08:45 AM
#34
Go 'way kid. Ya botha me.
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The old saying is "Locks only help honest people stay honest" is true but the more obvious the lock is, the less likely one of those 'honest' people will try to steal. The flashing light of an alarm or the bright orange of The Club will deter the amatures. Nothing can stop the pros.
03-10-2004, 09:30 AM
#35
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yeah for the small time theives thats true but not for the professionals who could probably make as much in a couple months as anyone here does in a year.
Originally posted by Victor E
Moral of the story? If you think for even a second that these car theives are smart, clever, whatever. Think about how dumb you'de have to be to not hold a job, and have to resort to stealing cars. they are the dumbest fools to walk the earth, so whether or not they steal your car, and you are out a bit of money, take solice in the fact that they will probably end up in jail or killed eventually. And they will never be rich, or intelligent.
Losers
Moral of the story? If you think for even a second that these car theives are smart, clever, whatever. Think about how dumb you'de have to be to not hold a job, and have to resort to stealing cars. they are the dumbest fools to walk the earth, so whether or not they steal your car, and you are out a bit of money, take solice in the fact that they will probably end up in jail or killed eventually. And they will never be rich, or intelligent.
Losers
yeah for the small time theives thats true but not for the professionals who could probably make as much in a couple months as anyone here does in a year.
03-10-2004, 11:19 AM
#36
I heard that the latest craze for car thieves is to break into your house at night and just take the car keys laying around (coffee table, kitchen table, dresser table and, last but not least, hanging on the key rack) and drive off with your baby.
I actually heard with my own ears when people announce their car's parameters on the radio (model, year, color, license plate etc.) and offer to buy back their own cars...
(this was outside the US).Apparently, this is a lucrative business for the thieves who are counting on owners' offers... sort of a ransom for their cars.
Getting back to the original topic, I'm relieved that after all, it seems that the RX-8 is not THAT easy to steal... :p
03-10-2004, 11:37 AM
#37
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hot wiring cars are only done in movies, and only on cars made before the 80's. ripping out the ignition housing is the easiest way, but that only works on cars with no immobilizer coded key, which is becoming rather rare. if i was to steal the rx8 (which i wont), i'd just pop the hood, plug in my starter kit directly to the starter motor, disconnect the battery of the car and forcefully start the engine. (starter kit aint that thing you buy at autopartsstores, its a fabricated kit made specially for stealing high-end cars) after the engine starts, i can drive it after making a few modifications specific to the car. i wont have the car's electronic stuff to play with but i'm stealing the car, not checking out your radio and looking out for checkenginelights.
it'll take me less than 15minutes to do it all, and i know personally a few 2-3man teams that can have the car running and headed to mexico in a little over a minute.
all of this can be done with a kit i would put together for a few hundred bucks, a fabricated blank key i can buy online, a workshop manual of the car (another 200bucks for the rx8) and a can of gas, a can of ether, flashlight, small electric drill, and a pocket knife. in all I'd only invest a few days preping and practicing then i can jack rx8s left and right.
not that I would mind you.
the immobilizer system and laser cut keys are pretty much worthless if you know what youre doing. granted most thieves wouldn't get this technical because its not worth their while. why? because if I steal, letsay the rx8, which I can drive to mexico for sale and shipment, or for stripping of parts I can probably made like 5-10k on it. meanwhile I can much easily steal a few civics, or accords, or camries, or even escalades and make several times the amount i'd make on the rx8. and all i need to bring with me to steal hondas and toyotas are a screwdriver and some metal strips. know why these cars are stolen so much? because their parts fit most cars so I can sell more of em. you never see anyone selling porsche motors someone boosted because noone wants to buy that thing, and when they do, the volume of sale is so small that itd be too easy to track later.
exotics are usually simply shipped overseas where some rich columbian will drive your stolen porsches and ferraris. and when you can buy a stolen ferrari in south america for 50k, noone overthere is going to order a stolen rx8, which wont garner the price to cover the shipping.
rather than worry that some kid is going to take your car for a ride, i'd be more concerned about someone stealing your rims or body kits. kids can easily put your car on rollers, hitch it to their car or tow it a few blocks away to strip it clean, leave it on blocks. it'll take less than an hour, and all that lojack and onstar etc etc wont respond quickly enough. if they wanted the whole car, not just parts? they'd tow it, park it at some designated spot, wait a day or two to see if someone comes to reclaim it (like cars with lojack, onstar, etc) and if no one comes to get it, break into it at their convenience.
my point is, if someone wants to steal part/all of your car, they will, and there is very little you can do to stop them. just take proper precautions, lock your car, never leave your keys in plain view, always check to see that windows are up, trunk locked, dont leave the valet key in the glove box (you'd be surprised how many do, especially on the nicer cars), and arm your alarm. granted no one cares about car alarms anymore but its still better than nothing. invest in those club things, anything that is a visible deterrant is a good deterrant. and park in well lit areas, where you can see the vehicle at all times. oh, and if you're going out, shell out the extra few bucks to park in a guarded parking garage or valet parking, its not a guarantee but at least its better than parking it on the streets.
not that i steal cars or anything. i'm a wine maker, i dont need to steal cars. this is just stuff i heard from a friend of a friend who knows a guy who steals cars. yeah, thats right! a friend of a friend! hahahaha *whistlesinnocently* umm.... i gotta go.
it'll take me less than 15minutes to do it all, and i know personally a few 2-3man teams that can have the car running and headed to mexico in a little over a minute.
all of this can be done with a kit i would put together for a few hundred bucks, a fabricated blank key i can buy online, a workshop manual of the car (another 200bucks for the rx8) and a can of gas, a can of ether, flashlight, small electric drill, and a pocket knife. in all I'd only invest a few days preping and practicing then i can jack rx8s left and right.
not that I would mind you.
the immobilizer system and laser cut keys are pretty much worthless if you know what youre doing. granted most thieves wouldn't get this technical because its not worth their while. why? because if I steal, letsay the rx8, which I can drive to mexico for sale and shipment, or for stripping of parts I can probably made like 5-10k on it. meanwhile I can much easily steal a few civics, or accords, or camries, or even escalades and make several times the amount i'd make on the rx8. and all i need to bring with me to steal hondas and toyotas are a screwdriver and some metal strips. know why these cars are stolen so much? because their parts fit most cars so I can sell more of em. you never see anyone selling porsche motors someone boosted because noone wants to buy that thing, and when they do, the volume of sale is so small that itd be too easy to track later.
exotics are usually simply shipped overseas where some rich columbian will drive your stolen porsches and ferraris. and when you can buy a stolen ferrari in south america for 50k, noone overthere is going to order a stolen rx8, which wont garner the price to cover the shipping.
rather than worry that some kid is going to take your car for a ride, i'd be more concerned about someone stealing your rims or body kits. kids can easily put your car on rollers, hitch it to their car or tow it a few blocks away to strip it clean, leave it on blocks. it'll take less than an hour, and all that lojack and onstar etc etc wont respond quickly enough. if they wanted the whole car, not just parts? they'd tow it, park it at some designated spot, wait a day or two to see if someone comes to reclaim it (like cars with lojack, onstar, etc) and if no one comes to get it, break into it at their convenience.
my point is, if someone wants to steal part/all of your car, they will, and there is very little you can do to stop them. just take proper precautions, lock your car, never leave your keys in plain view, always check to see that windows are up, trunk locked, dont leave the valet key in the glove box (you'd be surprised how many do, especially on the nicer cars), and arm your alarm. granted no one cares about car alarms anymore but its still better than nothing. invest in those club things, anything that is a visible deterrant is a good deterrant. and park in well lit areas, where you can see the vehicle at all times. oh, and if you're going out, shell out the extra few bucks to park in a guarded parking garage or valet parking, its not a guarantee but at least its better than parking it on the streets.
not that i steal cars or anything. i'm a wine maker, i dont need to steal cars. this is just stuff i heard from a friend of a friend who knows a guy who steals cars. yeah, thats right! a friend of a friend! hahahaha *whistlesinnocently* umm.... i gotta go.
Last edited by RX8Bliss; 03-10-2004 at 11:39 AM.
03-10-2004, 12:21 PM
#39
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My first RX-7 was broken into in Sacramento for the stereo. They just pushed the window down enough to reach in. A neighbor's BMW had a window smashed to get inside. So just to keep the window from getting smashed, I just left it unlooked. There wasn't anything left to steal. A month later I found that the door lock had been picked off, even tho' it was unlocked!
Stupid dump kids.
Stupid dump kids.
03-11-2004, 01:25 AM
#40
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Originally posted by RX8Bliss
hot wiring cars are only done in movies, and only on cars made before the 80's. ripping out the ignition housing is the easiest way, but that only works on cars with no immobilizer coded key, which is becoming rather rare. if i was to steal the rx8 (which i wont), i'd just pop the hood, plug in my starter kit directly to the starter motor, disconnect the battery of the car and forcefully start the engine. (starter kit aint that thing you buy at autopartsstores, its a fabricated kit made specially for stealing high-end cars) after the engine starts, i can drive it after making a few modifications specific to the car.
hot wiring cars are only done in movies, and only on cars made before the 80's. ripping out the ignition housing is the easiest way, but that only works on cars with no immobilizer coded key, which is becoming rather rare. if i was to steal the rx8 (which i wont), i'd just pop the hood, plug in my starter kit directly to the starter motor, disconnect the battery of the car and forcefully start the engine. (starter kit aint that thing you buy at autopartsstores, its a fabricated kit made specially for stealing high-end cars) after the engine starts, i can drive it after making a few modifications specific to the car.
Now if your "starter kit" is actually comprised of an engine wire harness and standalone computer capable of controlling the vdi system, drive by wire, ignition, and fuel delivery, I am in the wrong. However, you'd need to rewire the entire engine bay and bypass the stock ecu completely. If you can all do this in the minimal amount of time necessary to steal a car, you belong on a professional pit crew or should be a F1 technician.
Hot wiring modern cars that are not dependent upon an electro-coded keys is a matter of ripping open the steering column (or wherever the ignition switch is located) and jumping the supply and load wires that the ignition key would normally connect. This activates the car's "acc" or "on" position, which activates the ECU and the fuel pump. (*This is still not the case with the RX-8 because the ECU and fuel pump will NOT activate without the proper key near the ignition switch sensor*) Then you would tap the supply and starter wires that the ignition key would normally connect, causing the starter to kick and thus allowing the engine to turn over. Your car is now mobile. It's not just for the movies, and I speak from personal experience.
03-11-2004, 11:07 AM
#41
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hey, what goes into my starter kit i really shouldn't be disclosing online, as far as the fuel, etc etc you mentioned GiN, theres a reason I'd spend a few days reading up on the shop manuals... as far as the wiring goes, any half way decent eletrical engineering student can cook you up a little somethingsomething to control all that basic necessity stuff in a few days. and even so, many cars dont need you to do all that wiring stuff. some of them are so generic that you dont even need to rewire all that stuff - you'd be real surprised. you just got to know what you're doing. i can't guarentee that the car would be running super smooth, but for the purposes of stealing the car, i just need to get it moving, not moving smoothly.
if you read closely, theres a reason i'd disconnect the battery AFTER i tap into the system. of course the specifics to this procedure changes based on what car i'd want to boost. and if i were to invest this amount of time and money, there would be a specific car i wanted to steal. and for the amount of preping i'd do for this, the car would be well north of 50k+ for me to even consider doing this.
you know your stuff GiN for cars with no immobilizer, i was refering to cars that cant be boosted this way however. maybe if circumstances were different you and i can get together and go shopping.
if you read closely, theres a reason i'd disconnect the battery AFTER i tap into the system. of course the specifics to this procedure changes based on what car i'd want to boost. and if i were to invest this amount of time and money, there would be a specific car i wanted to steal. and for the amount of preping i'd do for this, the car would be well north of 50k+ for me to even consider doing this.
you know your stuff GiN for cars with no immobilizer, i was refering to cars that cant be boosted this way however. maybe if circumstances were different you and i can get together and go shopping.
03-11-2004, 02:22 PM
#42
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I don't think any of you have to worry about the RX-8 being a magnet for high end theives. However, as a 4-time victim of auto theft (after all I live in Vice City) I can tell you that it is no fun. I would never again get an aftermarket stereo. I would not leave anything of value exposed inside the car (hide your change folks). I would try to park in a well-lit, high traffic area whenever possible. I would invest in a good (read loud) alarm system.
Also, try not to have a popular car. My 97 Mustang was broken into for, get this, the air bags. It seems that every Mustang produced since 1994 uses the exact same air bags that are currently used today. When I called the cops, they told me that this was their 5th phone call from my area that AM. $1,500 later, I was real pissed. I don't think the RX-8 has a bunch of parts that are used throughout the Mazda lineup, and, thankfully the RX-8 is not considered a "popular" vehicle.
Also, try not to have a popular car. My 97 Mustang was broken into for, get this, the air bags. It seems that every Mustang produced since 1994 uses the exact same air bags that are currently used today. When I called the cops, they told me that this was their 5th phone call from my area that AM. $1,500 later, I was real pissed. I don't think the RX-8 has a bunch of parts that are used throughout the Mazda lineup, and, thankfully the RX-8 is not considered a "popular" vehicle.
03-12-2004, 04:26 AM
#43
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I dont know much about boosting cars, but I agree that if somebody wants it they will get it. But anything to slow them down might make them look to the car next to, or across the street without any alarms or devices to slow them down. Just makes it easier on them.
My solution was to get a 2 way alarm, so my fob will beep, and tell me what is happening with my car, ie, if someone is too close (proximity alarm), something bumps or hits it, with a door or a car, or even if somebody reached into your car if you left he window open. Heck, it even lets you know if you left the door slightly open.
In short, even if its something that they can see like what was mentioned before, a club, or a sticker indicating an alarm, or an alarm light, it will help decrease your chance of theft by the casual thief.
Just dont tick off any jerks with flatbeds or tow trucks... and hopefully you will be safer.
My solution was to get a 2 way alarm, so my fob will beep, and tell me what is happening with my car, ie, if someone is too close (proximity alarm), something bumps or hits it, with a door or a car, or even if somebody reached into your car if you left he window open. Heck, it even lets you know if you left the door slightly open.
In short, even if its something that they can see like what was mentioned before, a club, or a sticker indicating an alarm, or an alarm light, it will help decrease your chance of theft by the casual thief.
Just dont tick off any jerks with flatbeds or tow trucks... and hopefully you will be safer.
03-12-2004, 06:56 AM
#44
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Like Pirate Rex said, airbag theft is popular.
While there aren't many RX-8s on the road yet, the new 3 has the same steering wheel/airbag and I'm already seeing more of them on the road than the RX-8.
Insurance is the only protection you have against that kind of smash-and-grab.
While there aren't many RX-8s on the road yet, the new 3 has the same steering wheel/airbag and I'm already seeing more of them on the road than the RX-8.
Insurance is the only protection you have against that kind of smash-and-grab.
03-12-2004, 05:02 PM
#46
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Not the case...
The immobilization system on the RX* completely deactivates the ECU, not just the starter. No spark no fuel nothing... You have to tow the car away if you do not have a key, no way around it... We own a Mazda dealership and I just confirmed this with our techs and our Mazda rep. And to make sure we took one of our demos and tried it with a key that was not programmed. We tried everything, including a push start with a warm engine; absolutely no way to start it without a programmed key...
03-12-2004, 05:04 PM
#47
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The immobilization system on the RX* completely deactivates the ECU, not just the starter. No spark no fuel nothing... You have to tow the car away if you do not have a key, no way around it... We own a Mazda dealership and I just confirmed this with our techs and our Mazda rep. And to make sure we took one of our demos and tried it with a key that was not programmed. We tried everything, including a push start with a warm engine; absolutely no way to start it without a programmed key...
03-12-2004, 06:39 PM
#50
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Re: Not the case...
Originally posted by cortc
The immobilization system on the RX* completely deactivates the ECU, not just the starter. No spark no fuel nothing... You have to tow the car away if you do not have a key, no way around it... We own a Mazda dealership and I just confirmed this with our techs and our Mazda rep. And to make sure we took one of our demos and tried it with a key that was not programmed. We tried everything, including a push start with a warm engine; absolutely no way to start it without a programmed key...
The immobilization system on the RX* completely deactivates the ECU, not just the starter. No spark no fuel nothing... You have to tow the car away if you do not have a key, no way around it... We own a Mazda dealership and I just confirmed this with our techs and our Mazda rep. And to make sure we took one of our demos and tried it with a key that was not programmed. We tried everything, including a push start with a warm engine; absolutely no way to start it without a programmed key...
great info:D