Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

<long post>

My 8 is finally getting up there in miles. I have close to 70K and its an 04 MT on its original engine . I am in no financial position to replace this engine anytime soon so I wanted to ask what else I can do to ensure a healthy long life with my engine hopefully bringing me into 100K+. I have never premixed, I use 5w20 oil, change the oil every 2000 miles, use 91 octane gas. I drive this car so ridiculously hard that my friends are getting concerned that Ill hurt the engine. (as far as redlining, not speeding). So in other words, its redlined 4-5 times per day. I drag race it every once in a while, running low-mid 15's. I have a CAI and a midpipe on it.

I drive about an 80 mile round trip to work and my gf drives about a mile round trip so Im teaching her how to drive my car and we are going to swap cars for a while so I can stop putting so many miles on my car, and because its starting to cost more for gas than what Im making .

Now to the point:

Ive been a member for a while and know that a lot of you swear by premixing, will it help keep my apex seals healthy? My car has NEVER ONCE been premixed in 4 years and 70K miles, should I even mess with it at this point?

Any thing else I can do to help keep my engine healthy?

Sorry for the long post but I think my engines health is worth it

Thanks

Icemark

Pre-mixing is one of those things that some people believe in and some don't.

I personally do, and recommend it for any Reni driver. In my case, I found the combustion cycle using pre-mix eliminated the black rotary soot in the tail pipes, which tells me that a good pre-mix is helping get a more balanced and better burn. You do need to use a good quality pre-mix that is designed for Fuel Injected engines and not the crappy motorcycle pre-mix that some people have used.

But it is something that you will have to decide on your own.

I would also recommend that you switch to a 5W30 instead of the factory recommended 5W20 as on the few Reni's I have opened, all have had increased bearing wear when compared to the 13B engines if the 80's and early 90's (when Mazda spec'ed 20W50 and 10W30). Granted oils have improved since then, but the bearing wear is about double of what I would have expected on every reni that I have opened, which tells me that the oil weight is too light for the bearings.

But there will be arguments against both of my recommendations I am sure, so it really will be something that you will need to decide for yourself.

CyberPitz

I plan on premixing when I hit closer to 20k miles, as of now, though, I've upgraded to 5w30. Baby steps, my good man.

Otherwise, I say listen to Icemark. He knows his ****.

Varalith

Hey Icemark, not to thread hijack, but I wanted your personal opinion on something.

I purchased my 8 in Feb 08. At the time it had 67k, and a 2k old engine (replaced for hard to cold start problems).

I started premixing immediately upon getting it (started reading this forum before purchase). I have been using 4oz Mobil1 Synthetic 2 stroke 2T and 2oz MMO per fillup (full fillup only, partials are mixed accordingly).

You said something about crappy motorcycle oils earlier, so I wanted to know if what I was using is sufficient, spending too much money for a similiar result, etc. Mobil1 has discontinued this oil recently so I will be swapping, and with you bringing this up, I figured it was a good time to get an experienced opinion about what to swap to. I was thinking about a similiar oil from Castrol, but I hadn't made up my mind yet.

Thanks for the info!

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

to be honest, 5w30 scares the hell out of me. My advisor who I was good friends with at Mazda when I worked for them said 5w30 was fatal for this engine! I wish expo would chime in and let me know if he was premixing or using 5w30....

JRichter

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/lets-look-expo1s-over-100k-renesis-motor-138402/

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

WTF is your advisor smoking ?

Jasonawojo

iTrader: (2)

People run as heavy as 20w50, so I don't think 5w30 would be that much of an issue. Probably Mazda sticking to it's 5w20 preference more than anything.

heartygrain

hey, your story sounds just like mine. 60-70 miles round-trip to work these days and 77K on the original engine on my 04 GT. oil changes every 3K with 5w20 regular old dino oil since i purchased it new, no pre-mix. still going strong so i'm not messing with it. i'm a little worried, but only because of what i've read here. it's running great.

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

thats funny because same for me. I never even thought this car was unreliable until I joined this forum, all the stories got me worried. I literally took it to the drag strip to make sure it was still running okay times. Ran a 15.4 my first night ever drag racing so I think Im doing okay with power

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. Looks like he was right where I am when he started premixing lol. The miles will slow down now when my gf gets comfortable enough to drive it. Its literally a mile round trip for her. Im looking forward to retiring this car from its stressful daily commute in sacramento traffic. This car has been run HARD for two years straight and held up, im very very impressed. Sometimes I think that me driving like a ***** kept my rotary so healthy

Icemark

Well, everywhere but in North America, Mazda specs 5W30. 5W20 is simply to give a minor increase in gas mileage and a decrease in engine life.

When they spec'd 10W30 and 20W50 in the 13B it was not unusual to have a engine last 200,000K miles, but in the early 90's when they changed the recommendation to lighter weight oils, you saw rotary engine life drop drastically. Of course many modern engines are no longer designed to last 200K miles, as auto industry wide the expected engine life is only 100K miles now.

I actually think a good 5W40 would be about perfect if it was not for the additive packages that are needed to get to that weight range.

Toss in that with the last revision of the oil spec, the SAE are actually reducing the quality of the oil over the previous spec, I feel you will need the extra sheer resistance of a slightly thicker oil.

I have been using the Castrol for Fuel injected & catalysts outboard 2 stroke or the Walmart TCW3 when I can find it. They both are made by Castrol and have a distinct blue tint to them. Watch out for the Walmart regular 2 stroke (non TCW3) though... it apparently has high levels of zinc would could lead to spark plug fouling and is a Paraffin based two stroke (which some have suggested that can lead to fuel pump fouling when mixed with other paraffin based products like MMO or some fuel cleaners). Mind you these are just my choices and I am sure that there are others that will disagree.

Now with MSP16, pre-mix may no longer be needed as I understand it brings the MOP online during cranking again, and has a increase flow during warm temps. I just had the new flash done last week, and will start looking at what is happening on the oil flow shortly.

Shoafb

Just curious Icemark, How do you figure the industry standard is 100k now? I expect engines to last much longer now then say 15 years ago. Hell, Hyundai warrants their drivetrain for 100k.

Thanks

Icemark

GM, Ford, Toyota, and Nissan/Renault have all said that in share holder meetings. In addition when I worked at DEI as a suppliers rep to GM, GM used to hound us to make a cheaper product. They specifically called out in the design spec that anything we made for them should last 8 years or 100K miles and no further. This was 10 years ago. GM cars are really the best engineered in the world, as anyone can spend a little money and build a decent car with gold plated contacts and cast aluminum suspensions, but only GM can spend almost 0 money and build a car out of basic steel that performs at least ok, and lasts 100K miles.

The exceptions would be the Luxury brands like Lexus, BMW, Mercedes. All of which are expected to last 300,000 miles... because you are paying for it.

Hyundai has too offer a 100K warranty because so many of their cars were such piece of ***** and didn't make it past 60K miles when they first came here. Lets face it the Koreans didn't start out with even American car reliability when they came here and their rep has not improved that much even though their cars have. I do remember a buddy buying a Excel that in the first 30K miles had almost everything in the drive train replaced as well as the power windows... and then dumb stuff like the gas door falling off and door handles breaking... all before 30K miles.

In case you don't remember or are not old enough to know, Hyundai and Kia averaged around 16 defects per car when they came here, compared to Toyota with .25 defects per car or US built GM products with 2 deflects per car at that time.

Shoafb

Yea, mom had the first year Excel way back when. Thing would barlely get out of it's own way. The engine made 60k or so before they sold it with no issues.

I have a lexus, it was only 30k. The same price as an 8.

I expect this level of vehicle to last 200k. Because it is NOT a Hyundai nor a GM product. This is not some entry level car.

expo1

Since Mazda recommends 5w30 everywhere else I wouldn't be scared. As stated in the teardown thread of my engine I started to premix at 68,000 and went to Royal Purple 5w30 at 70,000. Something to remember about the final conclusions about my engine is that while it had bering wear, Mazmart thought my 110,000 mile engine looked ok and it was running when I had it pulled. If I didn't track my car I could have put more miles on it. That leads me to feel that pre-mixing was good for my engine and 5w-30 was NOT bad. I am pre-mixing about 3.5oz a tank on my Mazmart engine and will go with RP 10w30 when I use up the 5w30 I still have.

Varalith

So Icemark, I'm going to assume that Mobil1 I was using is ok then? I've got 3 quarts of it left before I switch to the castrol, and I was actually looking at the Castrol Power RS TTS 2T 2 stroke oil for premix or injector use (as labeled by them). I have had next to no black soot on my pipes since premixing with the MMO/Mobil1, but I do know it's burning it because of the wonderful smell that's coming from my exhaust since the premixing began.

I've read the TCW3 recommendations, but I didn't know if a 2 cycle oil that was made for high endurance would be better than a cheaper TCW3 rated marine 2 stroke. I did notice that Idemitsu's rotary premix has a flash point that's 5 degrees higher, maybe even 8 or 10 if I remember correctly, than the Mobil1 I am/was using, which made me believe the Mobil1 might still be a better lubricious premix, it's rated with a weight on the packaging rather than being a run of the mill (for lack of a better term) 2 stroke, AND it apparently burns off a little easier than the Idemitsu, which is made to be used especially as a rotary premix.

I will say this, since premixing began, I've garnered an average of 4-5mpg extra, and have been averaging about 23-26mpg total highway as of late, maybe 20-21mpg light city, so I figure I must be doing something right.

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

Let's try and keep the subject to pre-mix......

Don't read the flash specs and compare - they are meaningless. The flashpoint is just a reflection of the solvent used to make it mix well, no relationship to it's combustability or its weight as a lube.

I use a non-TCW3 two stroke oil as pre-mix, and have done since day one/tank one.

(I use 0w-30 in the sump in winter, and 0w40 in summer, full synthetic.)

S

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

why cant people just get Idemitsu premix? not like its that expensive when compare to the other 2 stroke premix.

Razz1

Letting your car be driven 1 or 2 miles round trip is going to kill it.

Carbon hell.

Do a search.

Icemark

Because you can't get Idemitsu Kosan Co products at the local auto parts store or walmart or even the Mazda dealer.

Yes, I agree. Flash points are meaningless, they all are under the average combustion temp in a rotary engine.

The only reason I mentioned the TCW3 standard is that walmart (and a couple of other places- particularly motorcycle shops) sell a crappy pre-mix that shouldn't be used in any fuel injected vehicle, be it a boat, car, or snomobile. Interesting I have seen a couple of threads here on this board with people using this crappy pre-mix and claiming then that the pre-mix clogged their fuel pumps.

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

that will be for a few days a week, I'll still drive my own car to work here and there and take it to the track every other week and run it. Thats to simply keep mile off of it.