saturn

Point taken about always feeling in control of the car, but what you're saying isn't true. When you shift with a manual, you're not in gear. The same is true for every automatic, manumatic, and crapomatic out there. If you leave a car in manumatic mode, it won't shift when you don't want it to. It'll stay in gear. When you're ready to shift and hit the paddle, sure, it may take a little longer and not feel as cool as a manual, but it'll proceed to the next gear on demand. Even SMG types still disengage the drive shaft for a split second (0.2 seconds from what I've read) before transferring power to the next gear.

NomisR

Not entirely true because with the manumatic and automatics, you have the torque converter in between in the car so when you're not on the gas, the car's basically in neutral. In that situation, when you step on the gas, it'll still take the car a sec to actually start acceleration while with the manual, because the gears are all meshed together unless you push the clutch, you have more direct input to this. This is what I meant about "always in gear" comment, in other words, there's no torque converter.

With the SMG, DCS, F1 trannies, they're basically standard transmissions with a computer activated clutch so that's no worse than the regular manual.. although depending on the shift time of the systems. Basically.. you don't have the automatic feel with the automatic transmissions.

For the manual transmissions, when you shift gear, there's going to be some lag in between depending on how efficient/proficient you are but once you're in gear and clutch you, your car is ready to go. With the automatic, you shift the gear, the computer thinks about it for a while so you get a lag in that even if the number changes, and then when you push on the gas, there's additional delay from the fact that it's an automatic...

So anything with a clutch is the way to go right now even if it's computer controlled.

saturn

Thanks for the info. However, the one thing I will say is that with manumatics, you're generally not supposed to shift and then push on the gas. You should keep the gas pressed the entire time while shifting (assuming you're going WOT). Then the computer does its best to get power to the wheels as soon as it's done shifting. I had a friend who test drove a manumatic and tried to drive it just like a manual (took his foot off the gas when shifting) which really doesn't do much for you at all.

Blue Rex

I have had a 4AT for one year, wonderful car. I bought the AT because I live in a big city and get into traffic jams. I have owned and driven manuals for 30 years. If I did not live in a city I would have bought the manual, absolutely no question. The AT is still great when I can get it onto a quiet open road.
90% of the time I drive using the paddles, it is really very good, no lag, loads of go.
When I am in a traffic jam or on the phone (oops) I use the Auto, perfect.
The ONLY issue I realy have with the Auto is that it can be difficult to downshift from 2 to 1, sometimes the computer just doesn't want to do it and you have to time it just right to power out of a 'slow' corner.
Buy the one which suits your requirements. Certainly do not be afraid of manual though!!

JeRKy 8 Owner

Aaah..I'm fed up with this thread. One last thing I wanted to add since I had both versions of the car...

If you were to start the manual RX-8 from 3rd gear (as soon as you could possibly enter 3rd gear without stalling that is), I can attest to the fact that you would STILL blow right past an automatic. If that isn't a huge indicator of the incredible performance gap between these two models, than I don't know what else is. The automatic doesn't even give you that sensation that you're being pulled up the tachometer like the manual does. It feels more like you're towing some large **** behind you. In fact, from what I can remember, with the automatic you'd have to already be accelerating at least 50mph (which is almost the end of 2nd gear in the automatic) before the car actually felt like it was going fast. Too little too late.

There are only a handful of members on here who have had the privilege of owning both versions of the Renesis like I have. If you do a search, you'll see that I even used to defend the automatic back when I owned it. My primary reason for not buying stick the first time around was because I had just came out of a wrecked manual T/A and wanted to take a break from shifting and clutching, and sedate my temptation for speed for a while. Didn't take long for me to realize that I had taken too long of a vacation and made a costly mistake.

I wouldn't even be wasting my time chiming in so aggressively here if I didn't think it was a big deal. I'm telling you that because of your stubborn unwillingness to change and learn a new skill, you're potentially ruining your chance of experiencing one of the best engines ever mated to a manual transmission up to now. There are plenty of other vehicles out there where if we were having the same discussion, I would tell you not to even bother learning how to drive stick and go take the slushbox model instead since the differences are minute. But this is simply NOT the case with the RX-8. This high revving engine deserves nothing less than a manual tranny. You can retort back to your "I don't give a **** about a little less control" comments but it goes beyond that crap. Not even the upcoming 06 automatic is going to have a 9000 RPM redline like the manual does now.

Anyway I'm through arguing here about which version of the car you should or shouldn't get. I've already posted countless reasons on this thread stating why the automatic RX-8 is a poor choice, along with all the other members who have tried to convince you here. Keep in mind that most of them didn't have to spend $5,000 (swapping cars) to fix a $1,000 mistake like I did.

I mean, do you really think I blew an extra 5 grand last year just because of a damn transmission?

Raptor2k

^words of wisdom

saturn

JeRKy, just because you feel very passionate about your decision doesn't mean everyone else is going to agree with you. You clearly went through a learning experience by going to the AT and then switching back to the MT. Yet you act like you can't be bothered by me even contemplating the increible inferiority of anything that you don't agree with at this moment.

I'm really glad for this forum and that people are willing to post their remarks. I never would have imagined getting a manual car before hearing so many testimonials of people who learned on their first stick car. I don't assume I can do something just because "little old ladies do it".

Every thread here doesn't have to benefit you -- just don't read it.

torbee

While he likely could have been a bit less hostile, Jerky makes some pretty salient points.

1. You are not arguing from a point of reference. Since you don't know how to drive a manual, you really aren't qualified to talk about its relative merits or deficiencies.

2. In the RX8 in particular, there is a vast gulf in performance between the AT and MT models. That alone should be sufficient cause to at least learn how to drive one so you can make a fact-based decision.

And to add my own opinion here, I just don't understand why driving a stick is considered so "demanding", even in heavy traffic. I mean it's just pushing down your toes and moving your wrist slightly. It's like saying I'm only going to watch one channel on television because pushing buttons on the remote is too hard! After you've driven stick awhile, it becomes muscle memory and becomes subconscious in any traffic or road conditions.

Really, the ONLY advantage I can fathom for driving auto over manual is if you really want to drink coffee or eat food in your car. But with a nice car like the RX8, you probably shouldn't be eating and drinking in it anyway!

saturn

Points taken, but how many people have driven the 2006 AT? Anyone? So, by your logic, anyone who offered an opinion about the power of the AT vs the MT (in the RX-8) is not arguing from a point of reference? Don't mean to have that sound rude, but these are all opinions no matter what. Even if there is a real performance gap, there's a usability gap too. Some people will say that no matter how good you are in the manual you'll never be able to zip around in traffic/parking lot the same as in an automatic. I know it's not hard for you and many others, but just announcing your opinions doesn't make them fact.

I appreciate the 1500 rpm difference and anyone who would like to speak to the amount of tme they spend in the 7500-9000 rpm range would certainly help me in my decision process. I know I'll never be as cool as you guys with MT and I'm willing to accept that.

torbee

Good points,

I can't speak for others, but I did a back-to-back test drive of an AT model and an MT model on subsequent days. (I knew I was going to get the stick, but the second dealership I went to only had ATs on the lot).

Even putting aside my regular preference for a manual, I was actually shocked at how different the two cars felt. The auto was very nice inside and felt like it handled well, but to be brutally honest, it felt very similar to my mother's Ford Contour in terms of pickup and zip. As I put the pedal down, I just kept waiting for something, anything, to happen. And right when it seemed like it was getting going pretty good - bam! - the 7,500 rpm barrier hit and the whole process started again.

And don't sell yourself short thinking you would never be able to zip around in parking lots, or parallel park or do anything else you do in an auto with a stick. I'm telling you, it's not a statement of opinion, but a statement of fact that after regular driving, it becomes totally second nature. Someone earlier in the thread made the analogy of learning to ride a bike, and that is exactly right. Once you get it, you get it, and eventually it's just completely natural.

Look, the only reason I continue to write about this is because I think SO many more people would find joy in driving this car in particular if they just invested a little time and confidence in learning to drive a stick. These are the same arguments I used to sucessfully get my wife to learn to drive a stick, and she loves it. In other words, I'm not arguing to be a jerk, but because I care about your happiness

Krankor

I take mild offense at having my argument so completely ignored. I restate it: It has nothing to do with *this* car or *that* car, manual in general is simply more fun to drive, in any car. And since I *have* driven automatic and manual, I *do* know what I'm talking about. Moreover, among people who drive both, the preference is overwhelmingly towards manual. Not unanimous, obviously, you will still find people who prefer automatic, but they are a distinct minority.

I challenge you to start a poll and get some actual numbers. Do it in the general automotive section, so it's not about the 8 per se. Make sure you're only asking for responses from people who can drive both.

Hell, run such a poll on other car web sites. Poll your friends, your workmates. But write it down and keep the actual numbers. I am confident that you will find that, among people who can do both, manual is the strong preference. And that will be a fact, not an opinion.

cleoent

Having that poll on this board would be a bad place to begin. The 8 is not a car to have an auto in... and people would be biased towards that here.

Having also driven both (which i would imagine most have) I would say of the cars i've driven of course manual is more fun. However, with the new technology coming out now a days, and auto/semi auto's coming with paddle shifters, launch control, rev matching, lighting quick shifts etc, I have a feeling that sooner rather then later auto's/semi auto's will be more fun to drive because we'll be able to drive faster easier then we can now.

saturn

Why would I care about the results of this poll? Asking responses from people who can drive both makes no sense. It's like saying people who can't drive manual aren't allowed to have a preference. Asking that would be like putting a poll up saying, who here likes the RX-8, but the only people that can answer are people who own RX-8's.

Also, keep in mind that 30 years ago (I'm probably off) a lot more cars were manual. Both my parents learned on cars that were manual because that was what was required in order to pass the driving test. I would suspect many others in that generation are in the same boat. So, most 40+ people can drive stick, but I would say that most people in that age group drive automatics today.

Again, I really don't want to know preference. I know EVERYONE who drives a manual is just going to say that it's awesome. My whole goal here was to get people's personal experiences with learning stick and some quasi-technical information about how the MT stacks up against the AT specifically in the RX-8. I really, really didn't want to start a AT/MT war. For those who offered useful info, thanks.