DreamingWhileOwning

i agree. most people learn how to drive on their new car or just car. All you really have to do is buy a manual transmission car and in less then a week u will learn its so simple trust me its from experience.

JeRKy 8 Owner

The sad part is the new tranny on the 2006 automatic still won't be going past 7500 RPM. That just makes it more insulting that they didn't have at least a 5 speed AT the first time around.

saturn

I do like to pretend I have a manual. When I had a straight automatic I used to put my hand on the shifter when I'd roll around parking lots sometimes so that people knew I was cool -- doesn't everyone do that?? I know there is a little lag with the manumatic and not the same "feel" as a manual, but it's a lot easier to hit a button than to shift using a clutch. The good thing about the manumatic is that you can gain some of the fun of shifting without HAVING to all the time. I use the paddles maybe 5% of the time if that, but it still adds so much more fun over an automatic -- just my two cents.


Sadly, this comment will likely be the thing that finally convinces me into getting a manual -- looks like peer pressure has done it again!

cleoent

some cars it's not such a bad deal to have an auto.

But when it costs you soooo much performance, to me, it's just silly to get an auto.

Vertigo-1

iTrader: (3)

Don't let the peer pressure get to you...just ignore it, and choose what you're comfortable with. You sound a lot like me, you're particularly comfortable with the features an automatic has, in which case you really should NOT just go out on a limb and buy a manual "and just learn on it". You really should try to learn and drive a manual around for a few hours if possible. And then just think about whether you'd be comfortable doing that day in, day out for the next few years, in heavy traffic, up hills, in stormy weather, moving around parking lots, etc. Think about how you're currently able to gas and go a last second turn currently. Then whether you'd be comfortable trying to make a clutch grab for a last second turn on a manual when a car's barrelling at you at 50 mph...and how you could stall right then and there.

I did the whole "just buy and learn" thing myself with a Mazda3 before I got my AT RX-8. I bought in to the whole "it's more fun" line. As far as I'm concerned driving manual is one of the most UN-fun things I could possibly do in my lifetime. Within two weeks I was dying to get out of that car and back into an automatic. I'm normally a pretty chill driver but having to drive manual just completely destroyed any concentration I had on traffic. And I firmly believe that regardless of how good I could get at it, I would always have that fear in the back of my mind that I could stall at any time, which turned me into a complete nervous wreck on the road.

The nice thing about an automatic is you can cruise anywhere, in any whether conditions, and know you're not going to make yourself look like an idiot by accidentally burning out or stalling. I mention weather conditions because I live in probably the rainiest city in the U.S., and accidental burnouts are a dime a dozen and always attracts stink eyes. This "safety" mindset alone makes a huge difference for me personally as far as how confident I feel on the road.

This is just my own experiences because I know quite well the peer pressure that manual drivers in sporty cars always present. I see it online all the time, I got it from my friends when I told them I was considering the RX-8. But before you fork over $30k, you owe it to yourself to really think over what you'd be comfortable with, because buying a car isn't like buying something at Walmart that you can just return for free if you don't like it. In the end you're the one that has to drive that thing day in day out.

Krankor

You see, this is where you are in error. It's just not true. Once you master driving stick, it's NOT a lot easier to hit a button than to shift using a clutch. I would argue it's not really ANY easier. As I said before, it just becomes second nature. Manual drivers, myself included, when they get into an automatic, are often reaching for a phantom clutch pedal that isn't there, without even thinking about it. It just becomes part of you and its nothing at all.

Gord96BRG

When you were a kid - did you put the training wheels back on your bike after you fell off once or twice? Or did you keep practicing and learning and improving? A year later, did you still have the same fear of falling over that you did the day the training wheels come off?

Driving a manual is exactly like riding a bicycle. There's a learning curve. Once you learn, you become comfortable, and shifting is like second nature. You don't think about it, you just do it. It becomes a reflex reaction, just like balancing a bicycle without training wheels. I never think about shifting, or clutching, or stalling - I don't need to, because it's reflex to do it properly.

Again - it's not that hard or scary. Like I said earlier, little old grannies all over Europe drive manual transmissions. How hard can it be?

JeRKy 8 Owner

Sounds like you just didn't give yourself enough time to adapt, over exaggerated the consequences of screwing up and making mistakes, and simply ran out of patience. I bet you would have gotten over all of that if you gave yourself two more weeks. Two weeks of driving stick I'd say is enough to get half decent at it, but it still takes more time than that since you've been spoiled by the comforts of automatic for so long. It takes about a month/month and a half to get to the point where you're somewhat comfortable at it, and 2 or 3 months to master it to the point where it's literally second nature and you don't even have to think or worry about it.

Oh and, I don't know why you have to come up with the worst case scenarios when it comes to stalling. **** happens and you just deal with it. If you were still worrying at the back of your mind about stalling after 2 weeks of driving, then that just means you obviously didn't allow yourself enough time to practice/get comfortable starting the car from first gear.

Vertigo-1

iTrader: (3)

Those were not worst case scenarios that I merely made up, those are real world scenarios I personally encountered when I myself stalled. That is why I bring them up. And the point is to give the original poster some things to think about from person that tried a manual and just didn't like it.

If it's going to take a month to like manual , than I find it amazing some people's wives/GFs etc etc just jump in and magically go "I like it! It's so fun!". Maybe the OP will fall into this category. I mean hey, then maybe there's actually some people out there that really do jump in and go "gee, this sucks!". Unless one is so deadset on having a manual, there's hardly any reason IMO to keep trying something that I instinctively don't like when there's other options out there.

Raptor2k

American laziness ftl

zenaissance

I agree with Vertigo-1 in a way. Sometimes what works for a lot of people may not necessarily work for a few. I have driven the 6AT and find it a blast but getting back to manual was not easy (stalled a few times). Driving manual can be effortless for sure, but auto is a good option for those who simply like to have an alternative solution to driving. After all, auto transmission is not invented without a reason. Honestly a lot of luxury cars I have driven (Benz S500, CLS500, BMW7 series) are all automatic and were very fun to drive- notwithstanding the fact that at times it was extremely handy when I had to receive a phone call. I do not advocate driving while speaking on the phone, but these days putting things in auto and not having to worry about shifting gears even though that may come naturally is what motivated me to get a 4AT. Unfortunately, MAZDA screwed up by having such a noticeable difference between manual and auto (2 gears and 40 hp is no subtile difference). Even a 6 speed and 212 HP is not even close and does not do the car full justice.

Nonetheless, and here is the big point- every time I drive my 4AT, it still brings a smile to my face. Why? Because for me, I have never and I repeat never had any trouble whatsoever with the power. Even when I was driving a 115HP 4 dr Civic, I could still get good pick-up. For the most part, all the power in the world does dick for me in a traffic jam. In Toronto, on a large highway such as the 401, slow traffic is a common and daily feature. I am virtually on this highway 90% of the time. Thus, even if I had an extra 300HP it would mean nothing to me. The few times I have a clear roadway ahead, I had no problem accelerating quickly (maybe not as fast as 6AT) and hitting over 220Km/h in licketly split time. I am not advocating road racing etc but many times I have beaten a number of drivers (350Z, BMWs etc) who thought they might be able to pass me but the way I was driving, they probably thought I was using manual. Of course, the manual is much better in response time etc, and the gears can drag in a automatic. Yet the feel of the car (suspension, handlign etc) is still very much an 8. Nowaways I treat the 8 as a luxury car with a sports performance edge instead of the other way around. It works for me, and I am sure it could work for others too.

As a person who is into high-end audio I can attest to the same argument where many swear that the sound of vinyls is better than CDs or that tube amps are sonically more musical than solid state amps. Hey- if you are a vegetarian who is going to argue with you? I stand at only 5ft 7 and there are a lot of people taller me but who cares?

Either way, the best advice is to drive both and make the decision up yourself. No such thing as peer pressure. Do what you feel best- we are all not born individuals for nothing! Life is about living how you want to live and not what others tell you. If you find the manual more spirited for you- go for it. Either way, it is your decision- so stick to it. The only thing about being a chicken is not making any decision at all!

special1

i work for a dealership so i have driven the auto and the manual. the manual feels different, and it really is fun to drive and the auto is also fun to drive, (not as fun) but i am a lazy driver. that is why i chose the auto insted of the manual. the auto is slower than the manual that is true. but if you never have had the chance to drive a manual before you wont enjoy it as much as if you knew how to drive one. i love the auto and i am happy with it, and i am glad i bought it. so here is what i have to say BUY WHAT YOU LIKE.

saturn

I think that's the biggest thing right there. I'm not going to appreciate the full awesomeness of the car if I'm concentrating on shifting. I know I'll eventually (or maybe even quickly) get used to shifting, but I won't right away. I can't imagine buying the manual while still sucking at using it. Oddly enough the only two people I know in real life that have RX-8's both chose manual and both learned to drive stick on it. In any event, that's not me at all. I think I'm going to try and find someone who has a stick and doesn't mind me learning on that. I think I'll figure out pretty quickly if it's something that seems like fun and worth pursuing. Thanks for the input.

One more thing. Just as a recap for anyone who's thinking of an 2006 automatic. From '05 to '06 they changed from a 4-speed to a 6-speed transmission (same as MT), 4-port to 6-port injection engine (same as MT), and increased horsepower from 197 to 212 (MT has 232 with new HP rating system). To be fair, the 2006 spec deck says 8.4 sec for 0-60 with the AT as opposed to 6.0 sec for the MT. If this number is accurate is has to be due, by in large, to the 7500 rpm limitation because of the torque converter.

saturn

Went out for a test drive today. I took my friend with me because he can drive stick. Here's my account of events.

We drove the 2005 manual first and it was so weird hearing it whiz out of the parking lot. We both just looked at each other and said "WEIRD!". It was raining a tiny bit so we couldn't go nuts. But, he was able to throw my head back and everything. We never even got a chance to get it up to 8500 rpms to hear the shift chime. We even switched places in a nearby parking lot and I tried the whole manual thing -- what a disaster. What a weird sensation. There's absolutely no possible way I would get a manual RX-8 without being good at shifting first (which, I may try to do on a loaner car or something).

Next was the 2005 automatic. I drove the whole time this time and after hearing everyone's complaints about the 4-speed automatic I thought it was going to putt out of the dealer like a golf cart. I floored it and we took off. The one thing I will say is that it eased forward very slowly for a second and then launched. Not like a normal automatic at all. My guess is that's partly the rotary and partly the computer hasn't gotten used to me as a driver. I got it up to about 7000 rpms and got the shift chime which was really weird since it was an AT. My guess is that it's for when you're in manual mode. We both felt that it didn't "feel" quite the same as the manual, but I was encouraged nonetheless. If the 4-speed, 4-port engine felt like that, the 2006 6-speed, 6 port engine should be even better.

In general, we both thought the car wanted to be driven fast. It's weird. I'm a pretty speedy driver and I zoom around 2 lane roads in the suburbs at about 70-80% of what I can do without flying out of control. This RX-8, even in automatic mode, just demanded to be driven faster and faster. My friend reminded me that it was a little wet and it was a rear wheel drive car so I erred on the side of caution and took it down a notch. I think this is a good thing and a bad thing. It really seems like the kind of car that you can just push to its very limit and feel totally ok with. But of the other hand, if you're pushing it very hard from day 1, you're likely to get bored with it soon.

I'm still undecided, but I have a little time. The dealer said they won't get 2006's in until April. So, for anyone considering the automatic, but are hearing a lot of crap about it at least try it. For most of us, there are so many differences between our current car and the RX-8 (the way it revs, the blind spots, the size of the cabin, the sensitivity of the accelerator, etc) you really have to try it on for size as many times as possible and in as many environments as you can. That's about as good advice as I can think of.

torbee

Sounds like you had a good test drive. And that's all that really matters.

I guess as a veteran manual driver, the lack of immediate "zip" in the auto is what turned me off.

You know, learning a manual might be fun. You should work on it a bit, then try driving the MT RX8 so you can really make an informed decision.

Have fun!

Hidehiko

For the 1st week when I got the MT 8, I took the car out every night (usually after 10pm) for like 2hrs to "re-learn" the whole process of "driving"....that is, to learn to start, to shift, to turn, to stop, to park...etc..etc. The 1st few days, I was thinking "Why am I doing this to myself of going thru this frustrating process of learning how to coordinate my hands/feet to operate a car again...I should have just gotten the auto...I was so nervous about driving, I didn't even wanna go to my neigborhood mall"

But guess what? A week later...I am back to normal and is having a BLAST driving the 8....and was thankful I bought the MT....and would probably killed myself if I had an AT....

So with that said and done...it's up to you...spend the time or just accept the AT for what it is... IMO, the MT 8 is one of the easiest manual tranmission to learn...

Jeager76

See I test drove on the highway and I felt the accerlation was just fine given pretty fast moving traffic. I guess its a mater of perspective.

roland_beech

So be more specific: what for you makes driving a manual a BLAST?

Raptor2k

It can't be put into words

roland_beech

Uh yeah, that's helpful.

Seriously, what makes an MT so great in your mind? (I'm sure it differs some from person to person)

accelaration -- yes, but how often do you really get to use this significantly in modern day urban/suburban traffic

cornering -- sure maybe it makes it more exciting but if you're just driving from point A to point B are you really looking to maximize the efficiency through a turn

downshifting - lots of mt drivers talk about this being the thing that really separates the experience for them

full engine range -- with the Rx-8 this seems like a big factor, using/experiencing the unique high revving aspects of the rotary engine

sound -- maybe just the sound of a engine revving which happens more often with an MT

tactile sensations -- the feel of moving a shifter, using the clutch, etc is that a big kick for you? even after driving for years with the same car?

...It's easy for people who don't drive sticks to focus on the negatives (stop and go traffic, learning curve, hills, always having to do it versus just cruising along or even kind of zoning out while driving an auto) so it would probably help people more if you spell out in detail why you think the MT driving experience is superior

Raptor2k

The best way to find out is to actually learn the MT instead of asking here (which has been done more than enough, use the search feature).

Raptor2k

But I'll go ahead and answer with simple points anyway...

Acceleration - just about every day. It's addicting.

Cornering - that depends on how you want to approach a corner. You can easily just cruise through it in a certain gear.

Downshifting - this is when you need to get your RPMs up a notch to get an acceleration boost. Driving 60 in 6th gear, but want to, for whatever reason, accelerate like a mad man? Shift into 3rd, rev match, let go of the clutch and hit it.

Full engine range - there you go

Sound - there you go

Sensations - definitely. It keeps you awake. It can be enough motivation to get you to work every day, and you get a feeling that you become one with the car. I've only had my 8 for about half a year and I'm enjoying it every day. I was close to being victimized by the AT.

FABRO

it's a guy (ego) thing...I really don't mind automatics because in real world daily driving they are more conveinent thats why I drive my automatic value package civic to work. I wouldn't say a MT is more superior, but the driving experince is different compared to an automatic. It's hard to explain but for me its just more fun to drive a Rx-8 stick because i feel like I have more control performance wise of what I want to do with my car.

khtm

I hate you and your fear mongering. Sorry, I had to say it.

NomisR

Well, lets see.. my first vehicle was an automatic by choice because I was scared and reluctant to learn to drive one. It didn't help that I was only a novice driver at that time. But I got to play around with some friends car and got used to it although it was only once in a long time.

So basically with my next car, my RSX-S, I decided to get the manual because I know I would regret not having the extra power by getting the auto. I simply took the car out from the lot being scared of stalling and rolling back and just drove home from there. And then I had to drive to work 35 miles one way in bumper to bumper traffic in the car. So I basically forced myself to drive in harsh conditions and I got good enough at it. And now, everything comes natural.

For me, like I mentioned before made the car more fun in a manual is more control. You have the power on tap immediately. You don't have to wait for the transmission to react before the car goes because you're always in gear. Ability to engine brake makes driving a lot easier too. The whole concept of shifting isn't the fun thing, it's not something that I think about. it's the fact that you're connected to the car, having control to have it do what you want, when you want it without the computer thinking otherwise. It makes the car feels more like an extention to your limbs.. but like I said, if it was something like the SMG, F1 or DCS systems, it wouldn't be any worse than the standard manual transmissions as the car is always in gear.