HELP mazda refuses warranty!!!
08-21-2007, 08:09 PM
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HELP mazda refuses warranty!!!
hello, i need the help of fellow rx8 members.
i just found out that mazda does not want to fufill their promise for my warrenty!!!
ive had my car for almost 2 years now, last year in november my tranny broke.
i dont know what exactly but when i shifted to second gear everything just blew!
so i took it to mazda and they said "we replaced every part in the tranny". Great. they did a perty good job with the exception that it was never back to 100%.
ok so now i drive my car kinda hard and i find that i cannot engage 2nd gear after about 25mph nor can i downshift at any speed beyond that. this is a problem when my cuz with a mazdaspeed 3 happens to meet me at a light.....
anywho i take my car back to mazda and the tech tells me after 2 days that the mazda tech line refuses to warrenty the car cuz of mods.....
now let me tell u that when my tranny broke it was stock, and even the day after it was "fixed" it wasnt back to normal.
the mods i do have on my car would be the rb intake, custom 3" exhaust, and not that they know it but rb race flash....
i dont know what any of those mods has to do with the tranny.
i plan to call them tomorrow. plz some advice... what do i do ? what do i say tommorow? help greatly appreciated!
i just found out that mazda does not want to fufill their promise for my warrenty!!!
ive had my car for almost 2 years now, last year in november my tranny broke.
i dont know what exactly but when i shifted to second gear everything just blew!
so i took it to mazda and they said "we replaced every part in the tranny". Great. they did a perty good job with the exception that it was never back to 100%.
ok so now i drive my car kinda hard and i find that i cannot engage 2nd gear after about 25mph nor can i downshift at any speed beyond that. this is a problem when my cuz with a mazdaspeed 3 happens to meet me at a light.....
anywho i take my car back to mazda and the tech tells me after 2 days that the mazda tech line refuses to warrenty the car cuz of mods.....
now let me tell u that when my tranny broke it was stock, and even the day after it was "fixed" it wasnt back to normal.
the mods i do have on my car would be the rb intake, custom 3" exhaust, and not that they know it but rb race flash....
i dont know what any of those mods has to do with the tranny.
i plan to call them tomorrow. plz some advice... what do i do ? what do i say tommorow? help greatly appreciated!
08-21-2007, 08:16 PM
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Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act
The relevant legislation here, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act of 1975, protects consumers from being wrongfully denied warranty coverage by new car dealers.
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states, in part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision (c):
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if —
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefore.
Under this federal statute, a manufacturer who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle is prohibited from requiring you to use a service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.
Further, under the act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not automatically void a vehicle manufacturer's original warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warranty, or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure.
Specifically, the rules and regulations adopted by the FTC to govern the interpretation and enforcement of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act are set forth in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16 - Commercial Practices, Chapter I - Federal Trade Commission, Subchapter G - Rules, Regulations, Statements and Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Part 700 - Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Contained within these rules and regulations is Section 700.10, which states:
No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102(c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.
Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law.
That being said, if you choose to modify your car, and suddenly the fancy new electronic control boxes that you added to your car make it run rough, not start when cold, or buck like a bronco, the dealer can and will charge a diagnostic fee to find out what is wrong with your car. If it turns out that your modifications are the cause of the problem, the dealer has every right not only to charge you for the diagnosis and repair, but to also void the portion of the warranty that has been compromised by the use of those aftermarket parts. Likewise, a dealer may refuse to service your car if it is adorned with aftermarket parts to the extent that its technicians cannot reasonably be expected to diagnose what is wrong with your car. As an example, all cars manufactured after 1994 are equipped with OBDII (On Board Diagnostics II) ports that dealers use to read engine diagnostic codes for everything from an engine vacuum leak to a malfunctioning emissions system. If your chosen modification has compromised the dealer service center's ability to scan for these codes (aftermarket ECUs generally do not support OBDII), then there is a strong probability that the dealer service center will
* Deny warranty coverage
* Refuse to service the car
* Note with your factory field representative for your region/district that your car has been "modified"
If they know your ECU is RB Flashed they may say it put undo strain on the tranny since it changed the tune of the engine. But you can do this "Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty." Demand that they put it in writing, and after that contact Mazda North America and talk to them about it, and mention that you're familiar with this Act and may pursue action.
The relevant legislation here, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act of 1975, protects consumers from being wrongfully denied warranty coverage by new car dealers.
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states, in part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision (c):
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if —
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefore.
Under this federal statute, a manufacturer who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle is prohibited from requiring you to use a service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.
Further, under the act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not automatically void a vehicle manufacturer's original warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warranty, or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure.
Specifically, the rules and regulations adopted by the FTC to govern the interpretation and enforcement of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act are set forth in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16 - Commercial Practices, Chapter I - Federal Trade Commission, Subchapter G - Rules, Regulations, Statements and Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Part 700 - Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Contained within these rules and regulations is Section 700.10, which states:
No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102(c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.
Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law.
That being said, if you choose to modify your car, and suddenly the fancy new electronic control boxes that you added to your car make it run rough, not start when cold, or buck like a bronco, the dealer can and will charge a diagnostic fee to find out what is wrong with your car. If it turns out that your modifications are the cause of the problem, the dealer has every right not only to charge you for the diagnosis and repair, but to also void the portion of the warranty that has been compromised by the use of those aftermarket parts. Likewise, a dealer may refuse to service your car if it is adorned with aftermarket parts to the extent that its technicians cannot reasonably be expected to diagnose what is wrong with your car. As an example, all cars manufactured after 1994 are equipped with OBDII (On Board Diagnostics II) ports that dealers use to read engine diagnostic codes for everything from an engine vacuum leak to a malfunctioning emissions system. If your chosen modification has compromised the dealer service center's ability to scan for these codes (aftermarket ECUs generally do not support OBDII), then there is a strong probability that the dealer service center will
* Deny warranty coverage
* Refuse to service the car
* Note with your factory field representative for your region/district that your car has been "modified"
If they know your ECU is RB Flashed they may say it put undo strain on the tranny since it changed the tune of the engine. But you can do this "Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty." Demand that they put it in writing, and after that contact Mazda North America and talk to them about it, and mention that you're familiar with this Act and may pursue action.
08-21-2007, 08:17 PM
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*seems I was a bit slow*
They probably can tell if you have the RB & well, its not that the mods affect the tranny directly, but they are drivetrain mods in a sense.
All you can do is talk to them & find out how they thing your mods affected your tranny. If they cant prove they did, they cant decline your warrenty.
They probably can tell if you have the RB & well, its not that the mods affect the tranny directly, but they are drivetrain mods in a sense.
All you can do is talk to them & find out how they thing your mods affected your tranny. If they cant prove they did, they cant decline your warrenty.
Last edited by WoodsOfGreenRx8; 08-21-2007 at 08:18 PM. Reason: too slow.
08-21-2007, 08:27 PM
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the ONE thing i will admit i did wrong is i waited this long...
i did call the deal a week after it was fixed and told them to make a note of it. wether he did or not i dont know. they did mention that the fact i have bigger tires in the back (265) that will prolly be the excuse.... but i barely got those...
im just so mad and i really dont wanna have to pay for anything.....
abbid: what is mnao?
WoodsOfGreenRx8: i know for a fact it wasnt my mods cua this all happened be4 my mods. how do i prove this? the only one i know i can porve is the tires....
i did call the deal a week after it was fixed and told them to make a note of it. wether he did or not i dont know. they did mention that the fact i have bigger tires in the back (265) that will prolly be the excuse.... but i barely got those...
im just so mad and i really dont wanna have to pay for anything.....
abbid: what is mnao?
WoodsOfGreenRx8: i know for a fact it wasnt my mods cua this all happened be4 my mods. how do i prove this? the only one i know i can porve is the tires....
08-21-2007, 08:30 PM
#6
Tell them to fix it or your getting an attorney and taking them to court and they will pay for everything when they lose.
But first ask them how the mods (CAI) caused your trans to fail.
Too much air intake?
I would be calling Mazda and tell them whats going on.
But first ask them how the mods (CAI) caused your trans to fail.
Too much air intake?
I would be calling Mazda and tell them whats going on.
08-21-2007, 08:37 PM
#8
He's as bad as Can
Your in CA right? To quote RB site about the flash
"*Important Notes: This modification is not authorized by Mazda and may impact a factory warranty. This flash is NOT considered emissions legal and is not CARB compliant and is not legal for highway use in California."
The flash lets you go 300 RPM over the limit set by Mazda. If they know about the RB Flash your SOL.
"*Important Notes: This modification is not authorized by Mazda and may impact a factory warranty. This flash is NOT considered emissions legal and is not CARB compliant and is not legal for highway use in California."
The flash lets you go 300 RPM over the limit set by Mazda. If they know about the RB Flash your SOL.
08-21-2007, 10:20 PM
#11
the only thing you can do is call mazda customer assistance and ask for help, it may actually help you if you are able to provide some sort of assistance on your end (perhaps future maint services) and try not to say too much you may talk yourself into a hole.
08-21-2007, 10:34 PM
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about mazda not taking my word 4 it... i do have recipts for almost everything i have being AFTER my tranny broke the first time... it would help my case too if the tech did note that it wasnt right when i called and told him to do so...
this would prove that my car WAS stock and still had the problem.
thanx 4 ur guys help i will keep u posted.
thanx especialy to "Rotary_Wolverine" 4 the "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act"
ima throw that in there face like i know what im talking about lol.
this would prove that my car WAS stock and still had the problem.
thanx 4 ur guys help i will keep u posted.
thanx especialy to "Rotary_Wolverine" 4 the "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act"
ima throw that in there face like i know what im talking about lol.
08-21-2007, 10:40 PM
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about mazda not taking my word 4 it... i do have recipts for almost everything i have being AFTER my tranny broke the first time... it would help my case too if the tech did note that it wasnt right when i called and told him to do so...
this would prove that my car WAS stock and still had the problem.
thanx 4 ur guys help i will keep u posted.
thanx especialy to "Rotary_Wolverine" 4 the "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act"
ima throw that in there face like i know what im talking about lol.
this would prove that my car WAS stock and still had the problem.
thanx 4 ur guys help i will keep u posted.
thanx especialy to "Rotary_Wolverine" 4 the "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act"
ima throw that in there face like i know what im talking about lol.
08-21-2007, 10:45 PM
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so how much of a dick should i be? i am pissed that if i lose i will b forced to pay a large sum of money which i cannot afford right now.....
ur sayin u agree with "gregs" to not talk myself into a hole?
ur sayin u agree with "gregs" to not talk myself into a hole?
08-21-2007, 11:03 PM
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I know you're pissed.......but.......Call MNAO, you don't have to kiss their ***..........just don't act like a dick until it's time to act like a dick. Try the concerned as a consumer approach first. Don't over talk it and spill out a bunch of stuff. You'll know when to play the MM act card if you have to. Good luck.seriously, I do mean that.
08-22-2007, 12:08 AM
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For the proof that the parts (intake & exhaust) affected the transmition couldnt they just say that the "excessive power added by the parts put to much strain on the transmition, causing it to fail." (even though we all know there is no way it could happen because we get like 4whp from those mods) Still couldnt they just say that, thats their proof...???
08-22-2007, 05:10 PM
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ok so i went today and im at least happy o got my car back with no charges to me.
whew!
i am waiting for MNAO to talk to the dealership, then for them to get back at me so we can talk....
what the dealer mentioned is the tire size??? the fact that my tires are 265/35/18
this is the mod that worrys them. oh and the fact that i changed all my fluids to royal purple....
so i dont remember if i said it or not but in 6th gear there is a whineing noise when slowing down. the tech said he herd it but he thinks its the tires and exhuast.
soooo what ya guys think???
whew!
i am waiting for MNAO to talk to the dealership, then for them to get back at me so we can talk....
what the dealer mentioned is the tire size??? the fact that my tires are 265/35/18
this is the mod that worrys them. oh and the fact that i changed all my fluids to royal purple....
so i dont remember if i said it or not but in 6th gear there is a whineing noise when slowing down. the tech said he herd it but he thinks its the tires and exhuast.
soooo what ya guys think???
08-23-2007, 04:29 PM
#22
there are alot of points that are against you, like i said earlier be careful with your words and minimize your concerns i really hope the issue gets resolved in some way to help your situation..mazda customer assistance from my experience are really good compared to many other car makes. just try to keep a cool head when talking to them they like to document!
08-25-2007, 12:38 AM
#24
This is a problem with Dealerships, they want to sell you a car, after that they just dont want to see your face again other than regular maintence
Why ? cuz those are easy money, straight out of your pocket, and most morons will just believe dealerships's BS like "oh you have to flush ur blah blah every blah blah miles" "I think ur tires are bad" blah blah blah
I still need to make an appointment with the dealershiT, last time they just ordered the parts but never called me back, fuxking ********.
Why ? cuz those are easy money, straight out of your pocket, and most morons will just believe dealerships's BS like "oh you have to flush ur blah blah every blah blah miles" "I think ur tires are bad" blah blah blah
I still need to make an appointment with the dealershiT, last time they just ordered the parts but never called me back, fuxking ********.
08-25-2007, 09:11 AM
#25
Insanely Yellow
ok so i went today and im at least happy o got my car back with no charges to me.
whew!
i am waiting for MNAO to talk to the dealership, then for them to get back at me so we can talk....
what the dealer mentioned is the tire size??? the fact that my tires are 265/35/18
this is the mod that worrys them. oh and the fact that i changed all my fluids to royal purple....
so i dont remember if i said it or not but in 6th gear there is a whineing noise when slowing down. the tech said he herd it but he thinks its the tires and exhuast.
soooo what ya guys think???
whew!
i am waiting for MNAO to talk to the dealership, then for them to get back at me so we can talk....
what the dealer mentioned is the tire size??? the fact that my tires are 265/35/18
this is the mod that worrys them. oh and the fact that i changed all my fluids to royal purple....
so i dont remember if i said it or not but in 6th gear there is a whineing noise when slowing down. the tech said he herd it but he thinks its the tires and exhuast.
soooo what ya guys think???
OK, my point of all that is that the tires shouldn't have dick to do with your transmission, especially if the rolling circumference is the same. Now, if your offset is different due to aftermarket wheels and as a result, your wheel bearings were failing, or the CV joints in the half-shafts were failing, I'd say they 'd have a case, but not the transmission - the tranny only cares about strain from rolling circumference, not anything else.
I would ask them for WHY that's their concern - what damage could be caused by 265/35 tires - and for what reason and make them state their case. FYI, when I switched my tires to 245s from the stock 225s, I called my dealership first, and their answer was "that'll be no problem whatsover as long as the rolling circumference is the same as or less than the stock tires". What their concern is that if the rolling circumference is MORE than stock, it could strain things as the tires then become harder to turn - I find that hard to understand, but since my tires were less circumference than stock (i.e. roll less distance per revolution, therefore like being in a slightly lower gear or having a shorter final drive ratio) they said it was fine.
Also, the Royal Purple argument is **** as well. My dealership, Autobarn in Evanston IL, installed Royal Purple in my car for me at my request when it was time to change the factory gearbox and diff oils, and also approved that it wouldn't affect my warranty. They were happy to sell me fluids that cost more than twice the stock fluid price, believe me.
By the way, the "off-throttle whine" you hear is your rear-end (differential) and it's perfectly normal. My car has done that since delivery and is a 2004 with 40,000 miles on it.
Again, make your dealership prove the issue, not just their gut suspicion.
Guys: One quick lesson: Dealers hate DIY **** and any mods you do yourself, or don't have done at the dealership are suspect. I know its hard to get mods installed at the dealer, but if you enroll the dealer in the process of working on your car, and involve the Service Manager, not just some punk service writer at the desk, you will have better luck if something goes wrong.