went_postal

This is probably not the best place to ask, since there is a bias, but I am trying to figure out if I should buy an RX-8. I have test driven two different ones in the past few days and I have absolutely loved them.

Currently I drive a Crown Vic LX Sport and I would be trading this in to get the RX-8. Basically I am upside down on the car and my payment is going to hurt a little bit.

My basic problem is the debate on gas mileage. I have seen people saying that they get 13mpg and some that say that they can get 23mpg out of it. One of the reasons I am looking to trade is that I know have an 80 mile round-trip commute everyday and the gas mileage on the Vic is killing me. That being said, the sticker on the Vic says almost the same thing that the sticker on the RX-8 says.

The RX-8 is probably one of the coolest cars I have ever driven. I guess I am trying to find any practical reasons to go with the purchase. Telling my wife I want it because it is cool is not really working... It also doesn't help me make the money decision either.

So... Anyone got any PRACTICAL reasons to buy the RX-8? I am also a little concerned because I obviously come from using a "boinger" and do not have any experience with the rotary. About as foreign as a diesel to me.

I appreciate any assitance.

Booster MPS

I strongly urge you to search and read even more the old threads. Those that get 10 to 13 mpg probably have their foot in the throttle all the time at very high revs. Those that get 23 mpg do a lot of highway travel. I would say that you should expect no lower than 19. Given that you mention

1. a 80 mile commute with
2. $2.00 gass and
3. The Vic is already killing you at the pump

This is probably not the car for you at all as I bet the Vic will beat the 8 on mpgs. I love my car and I would not trade if for anything (for the record, I get about 18 to 19 mpg) but I dont think you will be happy unless you can bear the gas expense which is already a concern.

RX-Hawk

personally I would not use an 8 for a 80 mile everyday commute.

I live 1 mile from work so it wasn't a concern for me.

went_postal

Interesting that you would say you would not use the 8 for an 80 mile commute. From what I have seen on a lot of sites the 8 is supposed to be good for commutes. I have heard people say that 2 mile jumps with the 8 is bad due to carbon lock and a number of other issues.

From reading the posts on this site it would seem that having the PCM above the "L" code is the best way to go for MPG.

Believe me... the vic does not get good gas milage. It is actually a hog. The LX Sport is basically the same thing as the Marauder, it just has Ford emblems on it. It is not made for luxury nor is it made to help out at the gas station.

Another question I had about the 8 is that I have seen conflicting reports on octane. Anyone want to take a stab at that one? Is it 93 all the time or will you screw it up with 87 or 89? The 93 is not that big of a deal because the local warehous sells the premium stuff for the same price as everyone else's 87. I am just curious.

went_postal

I should also ask... Anyone got an opinion on the cloth seats?

The deal is that I can get the manager's car which has 2000 miles on it for about $3000 less than sticker. And some other stuff.... Or... to keep the payment down I can go with a comparable vehicle with the cloth seats.

The manager's car is loaded and I know for a fact he did not "beat" on it. Drives it to and from work mostly and keeps it in good shape from what I have seen. Plus there is the 50k miles warranty.....

Anyway... just wondering.

Booster MPS

Sounds like you really really want the car which is great. A couple of things though.

I have never heard of Carbon Lock at all and it has not been discussed here as a short distance drive issue. Flooding is only an issue if it is shut down bone cold.

The PCM Flash is not a definitive cure for bad MPG. It was not designed in any way to address that issue. You will not go from 13 mpg to 21 from this flash alone.

The reason that I would not drive the car for 80 miles a day is for the gas bill. Granted the car gets its BEST mpg on the long haul, but even at 19 mpg expect to visit the pump often. Figure on no more than 250 miles per tank so you do the math.

I would go with the leather as a personal choice.

Good luck in your decision!

Sue Esponte

Unfortunately, unless you're shopping an RX8 against a coupe or roadster (e.g., G35, TT, S2K, Z4, etc) you're going to have a hard time finding a "practical" reason to buy one over a regular sedan.

1) It will only seat 4. You're never going to squeeze 5 (and certainly not 6) into one unless you're using it in a circus.
2) Gas mileage isn't great....and it sounds to me like unless you're absolutely babying the car it would take a lot to average 23mpg.
3) Trunk size? C'mon...vs. a Crown Vic?
4) There's always the possible flooding issue (research it here...TONS of opinions and posts on it) which you've likely never had to deal with or think about before.

That being said, an RX8 is more practical than a Crown Vic on a road course in an SCCA or other track event. It's also not regular. It'll fit better into a parking space, and come to think of it, it could save on visits to the therapist as well since you'll be smiling a whole lot more (especially if your ride home involves a lot of curves). :D

If you're looking for a practical reason to buy an RX8 over a big sedan, I'd say keep the big sedan.

-Eric

On the pricing, I don't have a price sheet in front of me but $3K less than sticker is close to invoice so the manager's car isn't a great deal. A lot of people are buying cars at or about dealer invoice, which doesn't mean the dealer doesn't make anything on the car. There have been dealer incentives on the RX8 and there is always Mazda's holdback. Keep shopping and get the car you want but don't get lulled into a used car at "invoice" when you should be able to get new for the same price.

expo1

I have an 80-mile round trip commute to work and find the RX-8 comfortable to drive even in traffic. However “practical” with about 19 MPG it is not. You will arrive at work happier than you did in the Crown Vic. This is also my first experience with a rotary so long as you watch the oil level and do not shut down a cold motor you will be fine.

went_postal

To put the Vic's mileage in perspective.... My driving is all highway (minus the 8 miles it takes me to get to and from the highway).... On the vic I am LUCKY if I can get 225 out of a tank... The tank is 17gallons. So it sounds like the 8 is going to be right in line with the Vic's mileage.

I also own an F150 that gets better mileage than the Vic but it is not the greatest of commuter cars.

I have an 85 Fiero GT that gets 30+ to the gallon but I cannot drive it in the rain since all the weather stripping is old and worn out and it is next to impossible to get any sort of replacement.

The Vic was purchased when my wife and I decided that we were going to try and have kids.... We do have our daughter now but for some odd reason my wife decided she did not want to drive the Vic... Instead she had been torturing my truck from six months. Now we have the minivan so I do not really need a high occupancy vehicle anymore.

I also used to work in a job where I had to carry a lot of parts and drive to Charlotte (about 350 roundtrip) all the time. Now I just go and sit my fat lazy butt in a chair every morning at the same place and the biggest thing I have to carry is my laptop.

Guess I am just going through a mid-life crisis. =) I had a friend that owned an 3rd gen rx-7 and he absolutely loved it. When the road and track article on the 8 came out last year I was hooked but thought it was less than practicle family wise.

Oh well... still confused. Guess I just wanna play with the other kids here at the office with their Nissan Zs and Audis =)

PhineasFellOff

If you get a new RX8, it will have the "L" flash. If you get a used one, you can still get the "L" flash done. A car on "L" should regularly get you 21 to 22 MPG on mostly-hwy driving at 70 mph.

Pk14

I appreciate your quandry. As a former RX-7 owner, I can attest to the rotary engine quirks vs. a standard piston engine in day-to-day ownership and that isn't a big deal.

My current commuter is an '01 A8L. An absolutely great car, averaging around 25 mpg, can swallow plenty of golf gear and I arrive at the office (40 miles away) relaxed and unstressed. Unfortunately, $1000/mo. in a car payment is no fun and I'd like better cash flow for other things. Sooo..while it is still under factory warrenty, I am going to sell it and go to something else.

The RX-8 has been on the top of my list for a while in part because it is more practical than other sports cars - the fun to drive factor is important as I spend a great deal of time on the road. 90% of the time it is just me in the car, however, with 4 small children getting into Spring sports, I need at least a 4 seater. I just test drove a '04 G35C 6 spd and the RX-8 back to back. The -8 is still coming out on top - it feels more agile, the shifter is very easy (kept missing shifts on the G35C, and the rear doors on the -8 are a lot easier to get the kids and their booster seats strapped in. The power to weight ratio is okay not great. Power is a good thing, but a well balanced car is far more important.

The only nagging issue is the gas mileage / range equation. My Audi lets me fill up once per week - it would be twice a week in the -8. That being said, there aren't too many cars that have the range to allow for a full week of driving between fill-up that are sporty enough for what I want in my next car.

Hope that helps...

Pk

Sue Esponte

I don't mean to question your math but "4 small children" plus you, as the driver, would require seating for 5, no?

-Eric

Elara

Pardon the thread hijack, but what is "Carbon lock?"

went_postal

Well... since the wife has the new 7 passenger mini-van, and I have no intention of sireing my own basketball team, I do not need a hi-cap vehicle anymore. Or... I could just toss all of them in the bed of the truck like firewood. =)

My issue is that with $2k down and the upside down trade in the payment is coming out to about 550/month on the 8. The vic is currently at 500/month. My insurance is also going up 10 bucks a month with the 8.

More or less it comes down to the RX-8 being a nice shiney toy that I have no real use for but I am trying to justify the expenditure. As you can probably tell this is not exactly an impulse buy but it is pretty darn close.

Since the vehicle I am looking at already has 2050 miles on it (50 that I did in a test drive yesterday =) ), I plan to insist that they do an oil change and make sure the code is at at least "L". Of course, that is IF I decide to get it. I have about an hour or so to make up my mind.

It is not that I do not have the money... it is that parting with my money is a painful event for me.... You wouldn't think that since I have 4 cars and whatnot... But... Currently I have two car payments and a house payment and that is ALL... no revolving credit card debt.

Again... **** retentive AND I like bright and shiney toys. =) But who doesn't?

went_postal

My understanding is that carbon lock is just what it sounds like... Carbon builds up on the inside of the motor and causes the rotor to not move. I have seen two fixes for this... if you have an automatic there is aparently some nifty little tool that allows you to turn the engine and possibly "knock" some of the carbon away. I have also seen that if you have a straight drive you can put it in gear and rock the car and that can cause it to loosen that up.

NOW... .keep in mind that this is info that I have glommed off of the internet. I know next to nothing about the rotary engine and to see someone talk about something like that is a bit scary especially when you are talking about buying a new car.

But.... i could just be talking out of my backside from reading a rotary urban legand on the internet. Better people than I should answer this one.

GiN

Carbon lock is probably only a problem with older cars, as it might take a few years worth of coked oil and dirty gas deposits to collect and reach a mass substantial enough to lock the rotor in place, so that should be the last of your worries. Just blast the motor to redline once every few months to help burn the carbon bits out the exhaust.

I have a 50 mile round trip commute every day, and I will tell you my gas mileage consistently ranges from 240 to 260 miles per tank, which is 13 to 13.5 gallons per fill. So if you have an 80 mile commute every day, expect to fill up every 3 days.

Pk14

That's why my wife has a turbo-desiel Ford Excursion... I can see situations where I have to take 3 around - if it is all four, I'm driving the Excursion.

I've had a V70 wagon where I had room for all four + 2 adults and used the capability all of 3 times in two years. I have to have at least room for 4 people when my car is called into hauling duty. Simply can't justify a 2 seater right now.

poolsidenaz

You've stated your car is a gas hog. And you acknowledge the 8 and Vic are comparable in gas usage.

That alone tells me the 8 is not in alignment with your needs. As much as I love it, I'll never steer someone to buy it when it's only going to disappoint them as an owner.

went_postal

Again, not really doing this for mileage....

I am under 30 and I drive a friggin Crown Vic. Whereas the LX Sport is cool and all it was not EXACTLY my first choice. First choice is a boxter S but I do not have $50-$60k burning a whole in my pocket.

Bought the Vic for family use... Family never uses it and I drive the monster to work all the time... The family drives the Caravan with the DVD system in it.... So... no real need for a LARGE car anymore.

Again, mileage would be a nice plus to make me feel better about spending the cash but it is just not working out that way. You know how it is... when you get to our age you still kinda want someone to tell you that it is okay to spend your milk money on something other than milk. But... since we are now the ones that make all the decisions we are sometimes afraid to make a wrong decision especially when you are talking about tens of thousands of dollars.

I think I just need a hug.

gusmahler

The RX-8 is not a practical car at all. If you want to buy it because it looks cool and is fun to drive, go for it. But it is far from practical. For the same price you could easily get more performance. Or you can get more room (you can even get more performance and more room in the same package), or significantly better gas mileage.

Buy the RX-8 because its fun and cool. If the payments are too high or the gas costs are too high, you won't enjoy it. A Civic Hybrid is much cheaper and gets almost 50 mpg. A G35 sedan is bigger, gets better gas mileage, is faster, and is almost equal in handling, for a little more. A Subaru WRX Sti is SIGNIFICANTLY faster and probably has equal room.

Overport

Buy what you want and can afford....as to people saying they are getting as little as 13 mpg, its all about the way you drive, the gas you use, and whether or not you are driving with the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) switch on. I use Premium unleaded and noticed that with the DSC on i lose on average 4-5 mpg...with the DSC off i normally get around the factory's claim of 17-18 mpg in the city.

went_postal

Okay... So obviously this was getting tossed around all day both here and in my head. So I decided to leave the office at about 2pm today and drove past the dealership quickly so as not to be tempted. I went home with the idea that I have a very good car that just needs a little work. So I decided not to get the RX and just try and either chip the Vic or something to that effect.

Went home, busted out the car washing materials, and decided to remove all the damn pine pollen from the car. Now... about a year into owning the car I had a little issue with missing spots of paint on the rear deck. Ford pitched a fit about fixing it with no cost to me but they did it once I complained hard enough. I thought perhaps it was just because the vehicle had black paint. They wanted to say it was because of tree sap. Well if it was tree sap why don't the other three cars in my driveway, or the three in my neighbors drive, have the same problem? Only the Vic had this issue. Anyway, As I was washing I noticed fibers from the cloth sticking to the car. Well that is weird.... Turned out I had bubbling paint spots... And more of the missing paint. I would say it was a paint chip but it was on the trunk deck. Proceeding to other parts of the car I found missing paint on the roof and on the hood. The Vic had automobile lepercy apparently.

Well... All I needed was an excuse. It wasn't a great excuse, but it was an excuse.

Guess what I drove away with at 6pm EST today? =)

Now the proud owner of a 2004 RX-8, Titanium Gray, Grand Touring M/T package, Aero package, floor mats, spoiler, Rotary Accents, and I am sure other stuff that I am not thinking of. I think the only thing that it doesn't have that I wanted was the CD changer.

So far no buyers remorse and it is a lot of fun to drive. Time will tell on the daily driver thing.

JimW

went- postal: In your original post you stated you love the car because of it's fun to drive factor and that it looks cool, however your biggest concern is gas mileage. Based on economical factors alone and your original concern, the 8 would not be a good choice, however if you balance your driving habits and your 80 mile commute is mostly highway mileage and based on the average highway mileage people are getting, you should be able to get in the high 200 or low 300 mpg range or filling up every 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 days using 15.5 gallons, or maybe you can come to the conclusion that to have fun and be economical is not and easy thing to do, but with the RX8s sporting nature, 4 seats and doors along with other practical features you might be able to find the right balance to suit your needs, If not in this car than what else?

GiN

dude, too late. he went postal at the dealership and took home an 8.

GiN

Congratulations. It's odd that your GT didn't come with the CD changer though. Are you sure you're not mistaken? The cd-changer is a 6-disc in-dash changer, so there wont be an external changer box anywhere in the car..

Anyhow, I like that $30K decision in 4-hours time action. Welcome to the club.