Sputnik

Being an active member of the MR2 community since before the Spyder became a concept, I can say that from very early on, Toyota intended to include the SMT with the Spyder. In fact, they did not get it to their liking, so they did not include it until some two years later. The length of time might seem excessive, but when you consider the fact that it is for a car that they have a limited production of, I would imagine that the development budget was pretty limited.

Again, as a member of the MR2 community, I can attest that the SMT has to break in, and the 1 second deficit shrinks significantly. But even then, a well-broken in SMT does not perform up to the manual's standards.

For my Miata, I'll keep the manual. For this car though, I would like to have a SMT (or SMG, whichever they end up calling it). When I had my Pontiac Grand Prix, I tried left-foot braking (out of boredom, frankly). I found that even with that car, with "spirited driving", left-foot braking made a difference. Not only in reaction time, etc, but in how you could drive the car (you HAD to trail-brake that car to get it around tight corners quickly). And, the ability to scoot around with both hands constantly on the wheel, and a foot per pedal, made for a different driving experience. And lastly, I'd like to be able to put it into an "automatic" mode in stop-and-go traffic, and give my bad knees a break.

---jps

Hercules

Your reasoning is very rational to me, but I still love my clutch and stickshift

It's the people who either don't know how to drive manual, or physcially can't drive it who will benefit most from SMG.

Not many people race their cars on a track, they buy sports cars for FUN. And a clutch enables me to have a helluva lot more fun than with a stupid clicker :P

Sputnik

I understand. I wouldn't want one in my Miata, or whichever "tuner" car I may happen to have.

Quote:

...Not many people race their cars on a track, they buy sports cars for FUN. And a clutch enables me to have a helluva lot more fun than with a stupid clicker :P

Well, my point wasn't a "track" thing, I never took the "Pontiac Grand Pig" on track. But what I am trying to get across is that you can still have FUN with this setup. Shifting gears isn't a major part of having fun in a car, not for me anyway. It's kind of like trying to explain how fun a Miata is. You can put it into words so that a person can comprehend what you're talking about, but few are ever able to really understand until they live with a Miata (or a similar car) for a couple of days.

I mean, have you ever gone to a go-kart track where the carts are left-brake/right-gas, and there are no gears on it? Aren't those fun?

And there will be plenty of those who buy this particular car as a "compromise", and an SMT will be much less of a compromise than a "tip-tronic", isn't it? Even then, there are plenty of those who buy automatic Miatas.

---jps

Saf

6 speeds fully in manual mode and I'm happy.

ilovepotatos

:p
I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist.

velociti

iTrader: (1)

Hercules- SMG certainly does not "suck". It may be impractical or undesirable to you, but that doesn't mean that the technology is without value.

I read recently either online or in Autoweek a quote from a guy in the BMW M division, saying that they would not offer sticks on future M cars because the SMG transmission is more technologically advanced, or on the cutting edge. It shifts faster than a stick, *can be* more reliable, and provides less transmission wear (correct me if I'm wrong). Now, this decision just seems asinine. I would hope that a good percentage of buyers would still elect to purchase the stick shift, however, in reading the statistic that over 75% (I believe it's 90%) of the Ferrari 360 Modena's are bought with the Magneti Marelli transmission, I am not that confident. I hope BMW will keep the 6 speed as an alternative in the future, because I know that at least a few buyers will never give up their stick, and I am one of them.

wakeech

well, think about this, though... do and will (performance minded) buyers give up ABS??
do and will (performance minded) buyers give up power steering??

it's just the way things go... if it can enhance performance, once the cost comes down so most people can afford it, it'll usually stick...... i mean, really, someday you're not going to be able to find a performance car that DOESN'T have steering-wheel mounted paddles for your pneumatic SMG...

but, i'm with you i'd like to have things raw again...

Hercules

I'm quite familiar with SMG and I never said it sucked, only that it was "sucky" to me. The system as designed works great aside from hiccups that time will take to remedy. However SMG for me is not useful, and will prevent me from buying a car offered with SMG only.

velociti

iTrader: (1)

whatever, I agree with you on wanting a stick.

Rexman

I prefer a full manual car personally. They're more fun to drive and ultimately to enjoy.

Beemer

Why all the discussion?? There will be a six speed transmission and there will be an automatic transmission. I don't know what type of automatic, but hey, it's an OPTION !!!!!! Just take what you like.
I prefer automatic above manual, not because I'm boring, but just because of the comfort it gives me. If there would be an SMG-like transmission, I sure would take that option.
I use my car to relax, not to let my heart beat out of my chest. (except from the beats of a good sound system ) Especially here in Belgium where on every crossroad there is a static camera to snap you when you drive too fast. At least IF you are able to drive too fast... with all those traffic jams, Belgium is hell to drive... My mom even managed to rip the stick off of the manual transmission of our bmw 5 series!! (imagine how many gearshifts per hour she was making! - Gs/h LOL :D )

I hope you all respect each one's way of view and driving. You can't imagine life without different tastes. There is no "best" transmission anyway. All of them have good, but different points. It's just the customer who decides, so we are all lucky mazda offers both. The only thing I would prefer is that they also would use a 6-speed automatic transmission (e.g. The one from ZF like in the new bmw 7-series with semi automatic included) instead of a 5-speed automatic.

MikeW

BMW's SMG system only costs about $2400 (invoice 2100)

Mazda should have no problem in offer a AutoManual system for $2500. so 25 + 2.5 = 27.5 out the door.

In the future BMW will have an SMG system with 7 gears (no more stick)

Torque converters usually have a maximum input speed of 7000 rpms (Ferrari 456M GTA). The regular RENESIS has it maximum torque at 7500, and max power at 8500. Obviously this would not work well with a torque converter.

Since Ford is all about being all encompassing. A special torque oriented RENESIS (~190 hp) that has very good low speed/low load torque would work well with a torque converter automatic.