Habeeb

Mazda's thinking.. Miller Cycle Millenia, 3rd Generation Rx7.. This is a great innovative car company. Unforunately, they do so much better when they design the *un hi tech*. When they build the Miata and Protege'... it's somewhat like the third generation RX7.. if the car had cost 70k they might have made all the needed changes... Are we here again.. totally unique car concept, but in a market segment (30K), where it can compete with Honda, Nissan and Toyota... ??

RX-jimenez

HEY!!!! YOU THINK I SHOULD BE CONCERNE CUZ I WORK 2 1/2 MILES FROM MY HOUSE ?????? IT ONLY TAKE ME 2 MINUTES TO GET THERE................

rotarygod

STOP YELLING!!!!! If you haven't had any problems yet then you'll probably be fine. Just be on the lookout.

RX-jimenez

oopps!!!! sorry.... but i don't know yet i had it since saturday, and what you think i should do?????

CERAMICSEAL

Do you have an alternative vehicle you could drive? That short duration isn't good for any car: you don't truly get up to full operating temps. Fuel economy may be quite poor, your exhaust could collect a lot of moisture, your oil could become somewhat diluted by fuel due to such a high percentage of your time being spent in enrichment mode. I could go on but I don't want to depress you.

khoney

Take the long way to work, so you'll have more time to enjoy the car, and you'll get it warmed up in the process!

Habeeb

Two things you could do.. enjoy your car and keep up with your studies of the English language...

red_rx8_red_int

It a tough call, not starting is not the same as engine stalling. I'm under the belief that recalls are always safety related. The only scenario that comes to mind that involves safety is where:

You start the car;
Drive a short distance and kill the engine by accident (brake hard to avoid an accident and forgot to clutch) in a dangerous spot (e.g., an intersection); and
Can't move out of the dangerous intersection because you can't start the car.

Because of the above scenario, I do consider this a safety issue.

Nubo

All plugs are the same temperature during a cold start - the same temperature as the rest of the engine. Hotter plugs are only hotter once the engine has been running. If indeed hotter plugs are a fix, then it would seem to imply that the cooler plugs are getting excessively dirty in general use.

RX-jimenez

well sorry, i try my best, but if you really don't like it, just don't read it......

B-Nez

2 miles? Hell, jog to work. Or ride a bike.

MEGAREDS

Drive the car, but keep an eye on the temp. gauge before you shut it down. Ideally, it should be about the middle. I find that my car is up to operating temperature after about three minutes. Also, in Texas, it should not be the problem it is in colder climates.

RX-jimenez

COOL!! I LOVE THIS CAR, I HAVE IT SINCE SATURDAY I CAN'T FIND NOTHING I DON'T LIKE, I WAS A LITTLE SCARED SINCE I HAD TO RIDE 65 MILES FROM THE DEALER, AND IT ONLY HAD 6 MILES ON IT, BUT I WAS STOPING ALL THE TIME AND STILL DIDN'T WHEN MORE THEN 4000 RPM ON IT, STILL HAD TO RUN 65 TO 70 FOR AT LEAST 20 MINUTES WHEN I STOP, BUT I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE A PROBLEM...RIGHT?? I JUST DON'T WANT TO GO MORE THAN 5000 RPM UNTIL THE 600 MILES...SUSPENSION IS GREAT, I JUST CAN'T GET OF THE CAR AND THEN FIND AN EXCUSE TO GET BACK ON....

BillK

The question still remains, will this cause flooding:

1) Start car, car is cold
2) Drive car a bit, car is not yet warm
3) Screw up pulling away at an intersection in 1st and stall the car

If this simple scenario can cause a towable flooding scenario, this very definitely does qualify as a NHTSA safety issue and IMHO is a deal-breaker for me as to whether to buy the 8 or not.

So, I know I can't start the car, back it out of the garage and shut it off.

But if I back out and accidentally stall the car when shifting from reverse to 1st after backing out of the driveway, is the 8 dead until it can get towed and "unflooded" by the dealer, perhaps at my cost?!?!

Icanrel-8

Ok, so I've read this thread, and BillK's statement above sums it up great. I have a question for all of you engineer/mechanically minded people:

How much of the cold shut-off flooding is actually a direct function of temperature? If a warm (enough) engine will not flood, why not install block heaters? Or is there something else?

Before you all flame me crispy about how dumb a guy would have to be to buy a $30K car and have to keep it plugged in all the time and other impracticalities, I know, I know... I'm just trying to understand the idea. And so 8s in Arizona in the summer CAN be driven a short distance and not flood? Or Hawaii... that's the answer! I'm packing...

Icanrel-8

And actually, is this really gasoline flooding? Or is it oil that is fouling the spark plugs?

My old two-stroke motorcycle used to "foul-out" once in a while, and I could usually take out the plug affected and wipe it off and dry it up and get things running. Don't suppose that would work out in the sticks (or my driveway)on the Mazda? How hard are those plugs to find?

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

They can't be found at all.
NGK is the ONLY manufacturer at the moment and they don't even acknowledge them as a proper part number.
Dealers must order them direct from Mazda and no aftermarket suppliers can, as yet, acquire them.
I got a second set from my local dealer. They took a week and actually came from a European Mazda distributor as did my oil filter.

red_rx8_red_int

Yes, this is an unanswered question. I have never flooded my car, and now with reading about the members here that have, I am extremely cautious not to let my foot slip off the clutch. Mazda needs to fix this!! IMHO it is irresponsible and negligent to sell a car that can not be started easily just because one killed the engine while it was still cold.

That said, does anyone that's flooded their car know if there's a safe time period immediately after a cold shut down that one can easily start the car? My understanding of fouled plugs is that the plugs are wet due to oil or gas or both, and because liguid gas/oil does not burn well, ignition does not occur. If that is so then the longer one waits the better--more time for the liquid to evaporate. But I've taught my teenager how to drive a stick this summer in my 8, and I'm sure early on in the teaching we stalled and immediately restarted many times before the engine was fully warmed up. With my increased awareness of the flooding problem, I would now only attempt to teach someone how to drive my MT 8 after it was fully warmed. The question is, are there other factors involved which would cause the following:

1. Start car;
2. Stall car while still cold; and

3. If started within x minutes, car starts fine, no problems,
If attempt to start after x minutes, car flooded.

MEGAREDS

red_rx8_red_int:

If I had it to do over again, I would change only one thing. I knew my car was likely flooded when I got home, because my wife told me she had forgotten to warm it up. That being the case, I probably should not have initially tried to start it normally to confirm it was flooded, but instead should have gone right to the emergency start procedure. When I turned the key without first depressing the pedal all the way, I put more gas into the chamber. Were I to have to do it again, I would have pressed my foot to the floor, cranked it for 10 seconds, then tried to start it normally.

I also wonder if my wife started the car by giving it gas, which I never do. For some cars, that's required, and she may have just done it as habit. If so, that's even more fuel in the rotors that should not have been there.

The good news: the car seems to be running well.

One last point. I wonder if it is possible to push start a flooded RX-8. Although this would not work for those of us with automatic transmissions or those of us who are alone with the car, if you have a friend who can help push starting the car may be easier than calling AAA.

241Commuter

Getting back to why I originally started this thread...

I wanted to brainstorm some ideas on what Mazda could have done differently. I think we understand the phenomena of flooding reasonably well - an excess of unburnt gas plus a tiny amount of oil from the seal injectors foul the plugs in certain conditions. Once the plugs refuse to fire, any additional gas getting into the combustion chamber compounds the problem. So, here is my next idea: For some reason Mazda did not orient the engine block so that the plugs are at the top of the combustion chamber. The little holes that expose the spark gap are recessed, horizontal, and, to me, look like they might trap gasoline. If the plugs were on top, those holes would drain more readily, and the gasoline would be less likely to pool and foul the plugs. I presume there is a reason why this is bogus thinking because Mazda's had a lot of time to figure this out and hasn't done it. But still, I don't see what's wrong with my reasoning.

Zio

the flooding issue is not an issue.

red_rx8_red_int

I don't think they thought about it. I don't think the problem even existed until the port reflash of the ECU. Only the North America cars have this problem. I have no doubts that Mazda is trying to fix this problem. They've already came out with new plugs, which may or may not completely solve this.

241Commuter

That's not helpful. Enough people have had enough trouble. It's a problem.

241Commuter

I think you're right. This should have been on their QA matrix but somebody flubbed.


I know only Americans are complaining. But you may be right. I'd still like to know why the plugs are on the side, though, and whether that's a contributing factor. BTW, other countries get the same horsepower rating. If the reflash is responsible for the reduction in HP, wouldn't they have the same reflash?


Yes, we got their attention. I saw at least one post, though, of somebody who flooded with new plugs, although it's not clear that he flooded with THE new plugs. This begs the question - if the new plugs solves the problem, should we ALL be getting a recall notice? The sense I got from the TBS is that only people with certain driving patterns (short runs, cold weather) will get the plugs. I think Mazda has to be more proactive than that.

DaveT

Having said all of this, does anybody know exactly what the dealer does to "un-flood" a flooded engine? Seems to me removing the spark plugs and turning the engine over with the gas pedal depressed (or fuel system fuse pulled) should do it. Surely, with all the expertise here, there is a safe "Do It Yourself" fix. I haven't experienced this and I do lots of short runs. The only thing that I do is rev the engine to 3-4,000 RPM's just before shutdown (on advice from my younger son - who is very experienced with Mazda Rotary engines).