BillK

Tell a random buyer looking at an 8 this:
I don't think 8 sales would be helped too much by that. (Frankly, RX-8 sales are pretty horrid as is, unfortunately.)

Say what you want about how wondeful the rotary is; I know that. But even as a rotary lover I'm not willing to risk having to have my car towed to a dealer someday if I have to valet park and the valets need to shuffle the cars around, let alone if I happen to stall the engine when the conditions are just right.

I did read your post stating that you stalled your car and it started right up, but some here have moved their car a short distance when cold and haven't flooded, either. Just because it doesn't happen once doesn't mean your luck will hold out...

Roaddemon

I thought I read a post here sales were very good selling over 60,000 units and projected over 100,000 units next year. I think these cars will fly out of the showrooms come spring.

Some 8s have flooded, most do not. I'm sure the problem will be addressed in 2005. Not enough is known about the problem yet. I don't think luck has anything to do with my car not flooding. My 8 is fine. You sound very paronoid towards the car. Have you had any problems so far?

MWG

I think the flooding problem could be fix on the RX-8 if you bought a switch like I bought for my RX-7. I just cuts the fuel pump at the pump to let the engine spin and start. They just let off and it returns to nomarl. It is just to keep it from adding fuel at start up to wet the plugs and keep them from firing. I wont hurt the engine because it is still be lubercated from the oil injection system. It will make it so you never have a flooding problem again. I bought the one that Tripoint Eng makes. Flooding is something that happen with all rotarys because fuel keeps getting put in to the engine as it stops, and as three are chambers and two have the fuel in them and are close off. and act like a blown apex seal when It floods. Because there 2 cambers that need to fire after each other to get the engine time to burn any excess fuel as the first two chambers burn and help heat the engine up.

SCiMMiA

Does the trailing spark fire first on ignition?

ByeByeSaturn

Leading fires first:

http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.c...nition101.html

SCiMMiA

That's a nice article. I was just wondering if when you crank it, the trailing might fire first. Guess not. Thanks BBSaturn.

chris99gp800

hey guys. first off i'm not an 8 owner yet. didn't buy after doing research on this board and seeing the apparant problems. went to the philly intl auto show last night. talked to both a bunch of mazda sales guys and the northeast regional rep about the flooding prob. sales guys either denied it or tried to pass it off as a very minor issue. northeast rep immediately came clean.

the temp fix for the flooding issue is the installation of hot plugs. this won;t fix the problem but should reduce the chances of it happening.

they feel they've identified the problem as an issue with the ECU program. he claims the dealers need to flash the ECU and that in the next 30-60 days the ECUs coming out of the factory wil be fine. said that some dealers know about the ECU issue, some do not. All have the equipment to handle it in house, easily.

he claimed it had somehting to do with the car pumping too much gas into the engine when it senses a cold start. the fix would have the ECU retain the memory of it being recently started and changed the amount of fuel being pumped in or somehting. although, afterwards i thought about it, and why would that be the fix as i've seen people on here say they've flooded it and waiting hours then tried restarted it and it would start. his explanation makes it sound like the engine actually gets flooded on the attempted restart as oppossed to the shut down.

anyway, thats what he told me. by the way, another guy came up to him at the same time with the same question. he learned about the issue on this board. good job guys. keep up all the great info.

G8rboy

Not that I feel that it's necessary to use on every start-up, but Mazda did put in a fuel cut off "switch" of sorts- if the gas pedal is held to the floor (WOT) during ignition, fuel is cut off until the pedal is lifted. If I were ever forced into a situation where I simply could not let the car warm up before shutting it down (stalled engine, wife driving, etc , I will certainly make use of this "switch".

-Sean

BillK

We'll see if the ECU flash fixes the problem, though the obvious question is why they didn't come up with this fix sooner rather than take the time to print the "Quick Start" guide...

Data

Flooding is definitely an issue. It was not a good feeling watching my brand new RX8 get towed last week because of it.

We have three cars in the family. I had been driving the RX8 for about a month. I decided to take one of the other cars out that had not been driven in a while. The RX8 was parked in a downward sloping driveway. After a few days, I tried starting it, and nothing....... Serves me right for not driving it.

After reading many of the posts here, I think I'll be a bit more prepared if it happens again.

The Mazda dealer and mechanic also recommended using a lower grade of gas. Any comments on that recommendation?

Roaddemon

My Mazda web site also recommends using the lowest grade gas within the octane range in owners manual. That would be 87 octane. It's under tips for best gas mileage. I use 87 octane and notice no change in performance. I don't know what my gas mileage is. I think around 17mpg short 2.5 mile cold climate drives to work. My 8 is never warmed up all the way in cold months. A tank can last me 3 weeks or more.

I can move my 8 around in the driveway without warmup and have never flooded. I always rev to 3k before shuting down when car is cold. I tried to flood it starting and stopping 4 times in driveway without reving to 3k on shut down. Temp was in the 40s. I could not flood it. Starting wise my 8 is like any other car I've owned. I don't understand the flooding issue. Apparently some 8's have screwed up ECUs. An updated flash will correct. My dealer told me my 8 was flashed in december before I bought it. It was a demo since august so they took care of it. Generally they will not flash unless you have flooding problems or registered CELs.

Data

I've put about four tanks of Premium in my AT since I bought it. I've also been tracking the milage and MPG. So far with a full tank of Premium gas, I can go about 245 miles, which is right at 18 MPG. It will be interesting to see what I get with the lower octane.

Jordan Dalton

Below is my email response from mazda regarding fuel use, and flooding. Let me know what you think.

MEGAREDS

Jordan Dalton:
The answer you received -- "However, the warranty covers defects in workmanship or materials, not items
related to maintenance, normal wear and tear, or outside influences" -- is a potential step back from the letter I received earlier this year, which promised that all incidents of "flooding" would be covered under the standard warranty. My letter said it plainly... your letter, if meant to apply to a flooding problem, is non-commital gibberish.

On the positive side, I do not believe I've read any posts from anyone whose flooding repair was not covered under their warranty, at least after complaining to Mazda North America about the problem, as I did. I do worry that they may back off the "we'll cover it" policy, and what the repairs might cost after the warranty expires -- especially when the cost of the tow is added to the bill. It should be interesting to see how the newest ECU flash affects the problem.

Logan072

I have never flooded the new rx8 but my wife had to crank the motor twice once so I took it to the dealer and they just flashed the ecu, they told me it should help with starting and or possible flooding.

billbobbins

I was very interested in buying a new RX-8 next week, but in doing my research I stumbled on this site and read all of your comments. This issue of the flooding has dissuaded me from buying an RX-8.

As one who does not own an RX-8, I can give you a realistic view of this flooding problem. The year is 2004, and new cars don't just flood. Cars are designed to start and stop without some voodoo-istic ritual of revving, warming, and flooring. Today's cars are basically idiotic proof once you sit in the drivers seat (of course I'm not talking about maintenance). We got rid of chokes decades ago (for those of you too young to remember a choke, it was a button you had to manipulate when the car was hot or cold).

Having your car towed to the dealer for a $250 repair is just flat out ridiculous. You mean I cannot lend my RX-8 to someone ever without giving them a class and a towtruck number?

I wanted to buy a newer, more reliable car. But looking at the RX-8 I'm better off with my old ride.

Mazda has abandoned you. And be sure that they read this board and see your and my comments and have chosen to do nothing. And I can't afford the flooding repairs once my warranty will inevitably run out.

Their stance that this is driver error becaus ethey mentioned startup/shutdown the ritual in the owner's manual is just a way for them to avoid the Lemon Law.

Thanks for saving me many hours of grief and regret guys!

Riccio

Wow - How did this show up, yet again???

The flooding issue seems to have affected mostly the first production cars - not much comment on it from buyers (Jan 04) and later.

I bought (shame to admit it) an 82 Camaro - also the first year of a new design - the damn thing broke so many times in the first six months of ownership I almost took up residence at the dealer.

In contrast, I bought my RX8 on Jan 18, 2004 - and except for std maint (at 3K) the car has been reliable and flawless. Quite the contrast.

I think it's your loss - hope you enjoy whatever you do buy.......

flatso

You are as clueless as your one post implies.

loco4rx8

You're welcome, billbobbins! I'm sure whatever other car you end up with will never give you any problems at all.

Meanwhile, my 16000+ mile 8 has never flooded on me, and the M flash has made it a non-issue for everyone else.

Slickvic

BFD, my '82 RX-7 had a choke. But that didnt stop me from driving it every day for ten years and smiling like the Enzyte guy the whole time. It's all about perspective. Bill, you will probably never understand why us rotarians are such die hard fanatics. But you sound like a troll so I wont waste any time trying to explain it to you.

Positron

TROLL - Kill the thread! Not worth the time!

mm

Gord96BRG

Bill - BS. You obviously have NOT read ALL the discussions on flooding. If you had, you'd know that the M flash for the PCM, released in April, has eliminated the flooding issue by revising cold start fuel parameters.

Repeat - There is no more flooding issue, as of April 2004. Mazda fixed it with an ECU update. As long as an RX-8 owner has had the M flash applied, their car will not flood.

Regards,
Gordon

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Well, actually, that is decades ago - more than two, to be precise.

Why is this thread still open?

MEGAREDS

Because some of us still care about it, MazdaManiac. Until you've been stranded like I was, it's hard to understand how frustrating it can be. I read every flooding thread and will probably do so for as long as I own the car. They day active flooding threads get "closed" because some members don't like to read them is the day I pull the RX8club.com sticker off my car.

The truth is that Mazda wobbled a little back in January (see the first post of this thread). I was first told that the repair was not covered, then that the repair would be covered just once, then - finally - that the repair would be covered as long as the warranty is in place. I now think my dealer told me truthfully that he contacted Mazda and was told the "once only" policy was "official." The current warranty policy as it was explained to me in writing of unlimited tow and repair is "way generous" for a problem that is this complicated and that can be caused, in part, by owner carelessness. The letter I received from Mazda NA on flooding the car causes me to love my car and made my decision not to sell it easy. Anyone interested in the problem should ask for assurances that they'll be treated in the same way. Anyone told anything different should complain, politely but vigorously -- I had very good results with that approach.

I'm less optimistic than Gordon. While defering to him on nearly every other issue, I expect it to be an occasional problem in 2005, and I'm not lending my car to anyone without explaining the rules of engagement. These are: 1. No gas at start up - just crank once; 2. No very short trips (less than 1/2 mile), or until engine temp is normal; and, 3. If it doesn't start on the first turn, as it always does, leave it be and call me. Any friend who's asked to borrow the car and can live by those rules is free to go. Zoom Zoom - Big smile.

If one needs an "idiot-proof" car, don't buy the RX-8. The unusual rotary engine that makes most mechanics scratch their heads (or gape), the need to check the oil every few tanks and the required winter tires in northern climates gives the car the NIO rating: "Non-Idiots Only." In the beginning I wasn't sure I could handle the challenge (see this thread), but it's all worked out. I think the consensus is clear: Mazda did a great job on the 8, with relatively few places that still need work after only one year. Nearly all of us, including those who've been flooded, are very, very happy with the car.

Deslock

The RX-8 isn't the only modern sports car that requires a little more attention and care. But if you're not willing to put up with having to rev it for 10 seconds in the off-chance you have to shut down cold, then you should buy something else.